From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Feb 23 15:57:17 1996
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From: Arlie Davis <arlie@thepoint.net>
To: "'mbone@isi.edu'" <mbone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: "'mikej@thepoint.net'" <mikej@thepoint.net>
Subject: (Visual) MBONE Session Directory for Windows NT and Windows 95
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 20:57:17 -0500
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MBONE Session Directory for Windows NT and Windows 95

This is the first test release of my MBONE Session Directory tool.  It was 
written from scratch, by analyzing the (relatively simple) packet format.

You can download it at <http://tis_archive.thepoint.net/Internet/Interactive%20media/MBONE/SD/Win32/>.
This version was written from scratch, using MFC under MSVC40.

Things it can do:

  Receive sessions
  Show detailed information about sessions.

Things it cannot (yet) do:

  Originate sessions
  Cache known sessions to disk
  Run external programs

I am currently developing Win32 applications which will allow transmission 
and reception of many audio and video formats that are common on the 
MBONE.  If you are interested in this, feel free to drop me a line.  (That said, 
however, don't write to me if all you are going to say is, "Me too!".  I know.  
Trust me, you'll get a copy when it's ready.)

If you enjoy using this, great!  If you have suggestions for how to improve it 
(beyond just urging me to implement what the UNIX SD does), let me know.  If 
you feel like complaining, go write your own version and complain to yourself.

-- Arlie Davis <arlie@thepoint.net>



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Feb 25 13:30:55 1996
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Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 12:30:55 +0100
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
From: Per Mattsson <per@tip.net>
Subject: Information please
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Whats the majordomo address of this list.
I want to stop attending this list.

Regards.
Per


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Feb 24 22:57:19 1996
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From: bmanning@ISI.EDU (Bill Manning)
Message-Id: <199602251457.AA24591@zephyr.isi.edu>
Subject: Re: Information please
To: per@tip.net (Per Mattsson)
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 06:57:19 -0800 (PST)
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19960225113055.0068a570@mailbox.tip.net> from "Per Mattsson" at Feb 25, 96 12:30:55 pm
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> 
> Whats the majordomo address of this list.
> I want to stop attending this list.
> 
> Regards.
> Per
> 

	There is no majordomo address for this list.  It is managed by
	a human.  Several years back, the list was converted to a series
	of exploders, ie, there are very few people actually on this list.
	Thats the best place to look for removal.              

-- 
--bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Feb 26 02:34:21 1996
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Subject: Re: Information please
From: Matti Aarnio <mea@utu.fi>
To: bmanning@ISI.EDU (Bill Manning)
Date: 	Mon, 26 Feb 1996 00:34:21 +0200 (EET)
Cc: per@tip.net, mbone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199602251457.AA24591@zephyr.isi.edu> from "Bill Manning" at Feb 25, 96 06:57:19 am
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> > Whats the majordomo address of this list.
> > I want to stop attending this list.
> > 
> > Regards.
> > Per
> 
> 	There is no majordomo address for this list.  It is managed by
> 	a human.  Several years back, the list was converted to a series
> 	of exploders, ie, there are very few people actually on this list.
> 	Thats the best place to look for removal.              

  Bill,  this isn't very usefull advice for recipient in distress.

  By looking a bit around of ISI.EDU's system, I see that there is
  indeed Majordomo taking care of the list's -request address.
  (SMTP EXPN can tell a lot in experienced hands..)

  Send all administrative requests to:
	mbone-request@isi.edu

> -- 
> --bill

	/Matti Aarnio <mea@utu.fi>  Postmastering at several systems..

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Feb 25 06:33:34 1996
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Subject: Re: Information please
To: mea@utu.fi (Matti Aarnio)
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 14:33:34 -0800 (PST)
Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, per@tip.net, mbone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <96Feb26.003427+0200eet_dst.16100-396+338@utu.fi> from "Matti Aarnio" at Feb 26, 96 00:34:21 am
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> 
> > > Whats the majordomo address of this list.
> > > I want to stop attending this list.
> > > 
> > > Regards.
> > > Per
> > 
> > 	There is no majordomo address for this list.  It is managed by
> > 	a human.  Several years back, the list was converted to a series
> > 	of exploders, ie, there are very few people actually on this list.
> > 	Thats the best place to look for removal.              
> 
>   Bill,  this isn't very usefull advice for recipient in distress.
> 
>   By looking a bit around of ISI.EDU's system, I see that there is
>   indeed Majordomo taking care of the list's -request address.
>   (SMTP EXPN can tell a lot in experienced hands..)
> 
>   Send all administrative requests to:
> 	mbone-request@isi.edu
> 

	Well yes.  I was at home when I replied.  ISI has been moving
	lists over to majordomo in the past few weeks.  I was not aware
	that mbone had moved.  Even so, it is very likely that 
	the desired effect will have to be sent to an exploder list and
	not mbone-request@isi.edu
-- 
--bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Feb 26 02:26:33 1996
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Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 01:26:33 +0100
To: Per Mattsson <per@tip.net>
From: hans@sics.se (Hans Eriksson)
Subject: Re: Information please
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Per, you are on the Swedish sub-list of mbone.

Or rather, you were on that list as I just removed you.

cheers


/hans

Hans Eriksson, SICS, Box 1263, Isafjordsg 22, 164 28 Kista, Sweden
Tel: +46 8 752 1527     Fax: +46 8 751 7230     email: hans@sics.se



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Feb 26 07:47:00 1996
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From: "Jung, Michael" <mikej@finall.com>
To: "'mbone@isi.edu'" <mbone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Cisco/Wellfleet DVMRP Tunnel
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 96 15:47:00 PST
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Don't laugh......

Has anyone got a DVMRP tunnel working between Cisco<->Wellfleet
or mrouted 3.8 <--> Wellfleet??

It seems Wellfleet claims on their web page that they support DVMRP
with pruning but I don't remember any discussion on the list about their
products.

Cisco/Mrouted well understood here but I have not had much hands on
Wellfleet products and don't have one on premise.

Thanks in advance - Horror stories welcome

 --mike jung
mikej@thepoint.net
mikej@finall.com



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Feb 26 10:09:26 1996
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Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 16:09:26 -0600
From: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: Cisco/Wellfleet DVMRP Tunnel
In-Reply-To: "26 Feb 1996 15:47:00 PST." <"313246B5"@smtpgate.finall.com>
To: "Jung, Michael" <mikej@finall.com>
Cc: "'mbone@isi.edu'" <mbone@ISI.EDU>
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X-Face: 
 /RKQi"kntyd}7l)d8n%'Dum<~(aMW3,5g&'NiH5I4Jj|wT:j;Qa$!@A<~/*C:{:MmAQ:o%S /KKi}G4_.||4I[9!{%3]Hd"a*E{<k&QF?d6L7o&zLqb%kXn!!]ykXMKtTiy9#20]$EKP/^Z$T]'P6,
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> Has anyone got a DVMRP tunnel working between Cisco<->Wellfleet
> or mrouted 3.8 <--> Wellfleet??  [...]  Thanks in advance - Horror
> stories welcome 

When I did the CHEP '95 conference from Rio last September, we set up
a DVMRP tunnel from a Wellfleet router (loaned by BayNetworks) to an
ESNET Alpha running mrouted.  (It's version 3.8 today; I don't know
what version it was then.)

It basically worked at first, but there was a memory leak or
something, such that all packet forwarding (even unicast) would
eventually stop.  Configuring the link down and up would clear it for
another short period.  We wound up moving the Rio end of the tunnel
to a Sun.  The software was whatever was current at that time.

_________________________________________________________
Matt Crawford          crawdad@fnal.gov          Fermilab
  PGP: D5 27 83 7A 25 25 7D FB  09 3C BA 33 71 C4 DA 6A


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Feb 26 12:24:00 1996
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To: "Jung, Michael" <mikej@finall.com>
Cc: "'mbone@isi.edu'" <mbone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cisco/Wellfleet DVMRP Tunnel 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 26 Feb 1996 15:47:00 PST."
             <313246B5@smtpgate.finall.com> 
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 17:24:00 -0500
From: "Jeff Young" <young@mci.net>
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i've done it with radio.com.  the tunnel was between an mrouted3.8 
dec alpha and a baynetworks asn.  there were some strange, unexplained
"duplicate prunes" coming from the wellfleet but the connection
wasn't up long enough to really flush them out.  it was for the 
ACM 50th anniversary.

Jeff Young
young@mci.net

> Return-Path: majordom@ISI.EDU
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> From: "Jung, Michael" <mikej@finall.com>
> To: "'mbone@isi.edu'" <mbone@ISI.EDU>
> Subject: Cisco/Wellfleet DVMRP Tunnel
> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 96 15:47:00 PST
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> 
> 
> Don't laugh......
> 
> Has anyone got a DVMRP tunnel working between Cisco<->Wellfleet
> or mrouted 3.8 <--> Wellfleet??
> 
> It seems Wellfleet claims on their web page that they support DVMRP
> with pruning but I don't remember any discussion on the list about their
> products.
> 
> Cisco/Mrouted well understood here but I have not had much hands on
> Wellfleet products and don't have one on premise.
> 
> Thanks in advance - Horror stories welcome
> 
>  --mike jung
> mikej@thepoint.net
> mikej@finall.com
> 
> 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Feb 26 16:03:39 1996
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From: stephen@baynetworks.com (Stephen Ostrowski)
Message-Id: <9602270203.AA16501@pobox.BayNetworks.com>
Subject: Re: Cisco/Wellfleet DVMRP Tunnel
To: mikej@finall.com (Jung, Michael)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 21:03:39 -0500 (EST)
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <313246B5@smtpgate.finall.com> from "Jung, Michael" at Feb 26, 96 03:47:00 pm
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We at Bay are running our latest code (10.00) to a cisco router at BBN.

They are running version 11.0 (199.94.207.10).

We have tunnels internally running with mrouted 3.8.

The only problem we had was when there was a *lot* of
routes in the Mbone (25,000+). We ran out of memory as the
router on our end only has 1/2 Meg free.  In 10.00, there
is a parameter that you can conifure to limit the number of
routes you learn (we set it to 4500 for now), so that any
flood of routes will not bring down the routers will limited 
memory.  We have run with 25,000 routes when we have enough
memory.

- Stephen Ostrowski

> 
> 
> Don't laugh......
> 
> Has anyone got a DVMRP tunnel working between Cisco<->Wellfleet
> or mrouted 3.8 <--> Wellfleet??
> 
> It seems Wellfleet claims on their web page that they support DVMRP
> with pruning but I don't remember any discussion on the list about their
> products.
> 
> Cisco/Mrouted well understood here but I have not had much hands on
> Wellfleet products and don't have one on premise.
> 
> Thanks in advance - Horror stories welcome
> 
>  --mike jung
> mikej@thepoint.net
> mikej@finall.com
> 
> 
> 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Feb 27 23:31:23 1996
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          Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:31:35 +1000
To: "Jung, Michael" <mikej@finall.com>
Subject: Re: Cisco/Wellfleet DVMRP Tunnel
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 26 Feb 1996 16:09:26 CST." <199602262209.QAA06276@munin.fnal.gov>
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:31:23 +1000
From: David Vu <ccdvu@cc.uq.oz.au>
Message-Id: <"brolga.cc.uq:043960:960227033148"@cc.uq.oz.au>
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> Has anyone got a DVMRP tunnel working between Cisco<->Wellfleet
> or mrouted 3.8 <--> Wellfleet??  [...]  Thanks in advance - Horror
> stories welcome 

We have dvmrp tunnels working between a BayNetworks (aka Wellfleet)
BCN router and a number of mrouteds.  One mrouted is known to be
3.8 and the others I don't know about because they're behind a firewall.

As far as I know they're working quite well.

David.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Feb 27 10:44:15 1996
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Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 08:44:15 +0200
Message-Id: <199602270644.IAA05017@silver.sms.fi>
From: Petri Helenius <pete@sms.fi>
To: stephen@baynetworks.com (Stephen Ostrowski)
Cc: mikej@finall.com (Jung, Michael), mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Cisco/Wellfleet DVMRP Tunnel
In-Reply-To: <9602270203.AA16501@pobox.BayNetworks.com>
References: <313246B5@smtpgate.finall.com>
	<9602270203.AA16501@pobox.BayNetworks.com>
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Stephen Ostrowski writes:
 > We at Bay are running our latest code (10.00) to a cisco router at BBN.
 > 
 > They are running version 11.0 (199.94.207.10).
 > 
 > We have tunnels internally running with mrouted 3.8.
 > 
Too bad you don't allow mrinfo requests to your router for the curious
or is it that you don't support mrinfo at all?

Pete

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Feb 26 15:20:17 1996
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To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: nasa broadcast problems?
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Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 23:20:17 -0800
From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
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Hi,
Is anyone else seeing this or is it just me?

Tnks,

   Amancio

  Source        Response Dest    Packet Statistics For     Only For Traffic
128.102.192.19  204.188.121.18   All Multicast Traffic     From 128.102.192.19
     |       __/  rtt  336 ms    Lost/Sent = Pct  Rate       To 224.2.0.1
     v      /     hop  -29 s     ---------------------     --------------------
128.102.192.16  meyers.arc.nasa.gov 
     |     ^      ttl   16   
     v     |      hop  258 s    242/590  = 41%  32 pps     0/0    = --%   0 pps
128.102.84.150  arcbone.arc.nasa.gov 
     |     ^      ttl   32   
     v     |      hop -258 s      0/348  =  0%  19 pps     0/0    = --%   0 pps
192.203.230.242 mbone2.nsi.nasa.gov 
     |     ^      ttl   33   
     v     |      hop  619 ms     0/394  =  0%  21 pps     0/0    = --%   0 pps
192.203.230.241 mbone.nsi.nasa.gov 
     |     ^      ttl   64   
     v     |      hop   50 s      6/820  =  1%  45 pps     0/0    = --%   0 pps
204.70.158.61  
204.70.158.77   dec3800-2-fddi-1.SanFrancisco.mci.net 
     |     ^      ttl   65   
     v     |      hop  -51 s    107/973  = 11%   0 pps     0/0    = --%   0 pps
140.174.2.1     toad.com       
     |     ^      ttl   66   
     v     |      hop  221 s     93/419  = 22%  23 pps     0/0    = --%   0 pps
204.188.121.18  rah.star-gate.com 
     |      \__   ttl   67   
     v         \  hop -191 s        326          0 pps       0            0 pps
204.188.121.18  204.188.121.18
  Receiver      Query Source



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Feb 26 17:37:20 1996
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To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: mbone2.uu.net?
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Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 01:37:20 -0800
From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
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Status: RO


Hi,

I have not been able to listen to World Radio Network for a while so 
tonite I did an mtrace:

 Source        Response Dest    Packet Statistics For     Only For Traffic
   * * *        204.188.121.18   All Multicast Traffic     From 204.62.246.73
     |       __/  rtt   81 ms    Lost/Sent = Pct  Rate       To 224.2.0.1
     v      /     hop  -27 s     ---------------------     --------------------
0.0.0.0        
137.39.246.98   MBONE2.UU.NET  
     |     ^      ttl   64   
     v     |      hop  -36 s      0/10   = --%   1 pps     0/0    = --%   0 pps
204.70.158.61  
204.70.158.77   dec3800-2-fddi-1.SanFrancisco.mci.net 
     |     ^      ttl   65   
     v     |      hop   36 s      1/226  =  0%   0 pps     0/0    = --%   0 pps
140.174.2.1     toad.com       
     |     ^      ttl   66   
     v     |      hop  -32 s      0/10   = --%   1 pps     0/0    = --%   0 pps
204.188.121.18  rah.star-gate.com 
     |      \__   ttl   67   
     v         \  hop   60 s        9            0 pps       0            0 pps
204.188.121.18  204.188.121.18
  Receiver      Query Source


---

   Tnks,
    Amancio


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Feb 27 18:25:57 1996
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Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 16:25:57 +0200
Message-Id: <199602271425.QAA06170@silver.sms.fi>
From: Petri Helenius <pete@sms.fi>
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: mtrace and clocks
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  I hope there will be a time in the future where the mrouted's clocks
run synchronized... now they don't:
Querying full reverse path... 
  0  silver.sms.fi (194.111.122.1)
 -1  hideout-e0.sms.fi (194.111.122.254)  PIM  thresh^ 1  -10 ms  
 -2  swallow-s2.sms.fi (192.194.252.177)  PIM  thresh^ 4  4 ms  
 -3  kiwi-gw.funet.fi (193.166.255.73)  DVMRP  thresh^ 12  17 ms  
 -4  rip.funet.fi (193.166.1.1)  DVMRP  thresh^ 16  -9 ms  
 -5  directory.funet.fi (128.214.1.252)  DVMRP  thresh^ 12  -84489 ms  
 -6  stockholm.mbone.ebone.net (192.36.148.206)  DVMRP  thresh^ 40  -24604 ms  
 -7  ? (198.67.134.250)  DVMRP  thresh^ 64  -31440 ms  
 -8  dec3800-1-fddi-0.WestOrange.mci.net (204.70.64.29)  DVMRP  thresh^ 32  169008 ms  
 -9  dec3800-2-fddi-1.WestOrange.mci.net (204.70.64.77)  DVMRP  thresh^ 1  -36292 ms  
-10  dec3800-2-fddi-1.Denver.mci.net (204.70.152.77)  DVMRP  thresh^ 1  42640 ms  
-11  dec3800-2-fddi-1.SanFrancisco.mci.net (204.70.158.77)  DVMRP  thresh^ 1  -205376 ms  
-12  mbone.nsi.nasa.gov (192.203.230.241)  DVMRP  thresh^ 64  -345 ms  
-13  mbone-cf.gsfc.nasa.gov (128.183.251.129)  DVMRP  thresh^ 32  135 ms  
-14  roxanne.pscni.nasa.gov (192.149.141.10)  DVMRP  thresh^ 32  228728 ms  
-15  nikki.ksc.nasa.gov (163.206.3.4)  DVMRP  thresh^ 32  46234 ms  
-16  nikki.ksc.nasa.gov (163.206.3.4)
Round trip time 599 ms

Pete

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Feb 27 14:52:42 1996
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To: Petri Helenius <pete@sms.fi>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: mtrace and clocks 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 27 Feb 1996 16:25:57 +0200.
             <199602271425.QAA06170@silver.sms.fi> 
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Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 14:52:42 +0000
From: Piete Brooks <Piete.Brooks@cl.cam.ac.uk>
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>   I hope there will be a time in the future where the mrouted's clocks
> run synchronized... now they don't:

As it happens, NTP packets are multicast on NTP.MCAST.NET, so we could get 
some sort of approx sync ... Let me know if the TTL needs to be raised.



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Feb 27 00:42:46 1996
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To: Petri Helenius <pete@sms.fi>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: mtrace and clocks 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 27 Feb 96 06:25:57 PST."
             <199602271425.QAA06170@silver.sms.fi> 
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 08:42:46 PST
From: Bill Fenner <fenner@parc.xerox.com>
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In message <199602271425.QAA06170@silver.sms.fi> you write:
>  I hope there will be a time in the future where the mrouted's clocks
>run synchronized... now they don't:

In particular: Run NTP on your routers!

  Bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Feb 27 00:47:11 1996
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To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: nasa broadcast problems? 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 26 Feb 96 23:20:17 PST."
             <199602270720.XAA01964@rah.star-gate.com> 
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 08:47:11 PST
From: Bill Fenner <fenner@parc.xerox.com>
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In message <199602270720.XAA01964@rah.star-gate.com> you write:
>Is anyone else seeing this or is it just me?

It's hard to see exactly what it is you're seeing, since you didn't specify
the group address and the source-specific column is all 0's.  Try adding the
group address to the mtrace command line and see what you get.

  Bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Feb 27 01:31:38 1996
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From: batie@aahz.jf.intel.com (Alan Batie)
Subject: Re: mbone2.uu.net?
To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.)
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:31:38 -0800 (PST)
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199602270937.BAA00735@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at Feb 27, 96 01:37:20 am
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> I have not been able to listen to World Radio Network for a while so 
> tonite I did an mtrace:

I've just gotten us connected to mbone2.uu.net (cisco-cisco tunnel), and
I *think* I'm getting WRN because the level meter in vat is up about halfway,
and 204.62.246.73 is white, but I'm not hearing anything.  This is a freshly
compiled vat 3.4 on BSD/OS 2.1, and vplay does play .wav files.

-- 
Alan Batie                     ------        What goes up, must come down.
batie@aahz.jf.intel.com        \    /        Ask any system administrator.
+1 503-264-8844 (voice)         \  /         --unknown
D0 D2 39 0E 02 34 D6 B4          \/          5A 41 21 8F 23 5F 08 9D 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Feb 27 02:45:12 1996
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To: Bill Fenner <fenner@parc.xerox.com>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: nasa broadcast problems? 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 27 Feb 1996 08:47:11 PST."
             <96Feb27.084725pst.177478@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> 
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Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 10:45:12 -0800
From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
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Hi,

I am having problems receiving audio this is what the mtrace shows
over here:

 mtrace 128.102.192.19  224.2.202.21
Mtrace from 128.102.192.19 to 204.188.121.18 via group 224.2.202.21
Querying full reverse path... 
  0  rah.star-gate.com (204.188.121.18)
 -1  rah.star-gate.com (204.188.121.18)  DVMRP  thresh^ 1  109861 ms  
 -2  toad.com (140.174.2.1)  DVMRP  thresh^ 1  28707 ms  
 -3  dec3800-2-fddi-1.SanFrancisco.mci.net (204.70.158.77)  DVMRP  thresh^ 64  
-99287 ms  
 -4  mbone.nsi.nasa.gov (192.203.230.241)  DVMRP  thresh^ 64  28610 ms  
 -5  mbone2.nsi.nasa.gov (192.203.230.242)  DVMRP  thresh^ 1  28393 ms  
 -6  arcbone.arc.nasa.gov (128.102.84.150)  DVMRP  thresh^ 32  -229346 ms  
 -7  meyers.arc.nasa.gov (128.102.192.16)  DVMRP  thresh^ 16  28769 ms  
 -8  nren-vod.arc.nasa.gov (128.102.192.19)
Round trip time 310 ms


* Results after 19 seconds:

  Source        Response Dest    Packet Statistics For     Only For Traffic
128.102.192.19  204.188.121.18   All Multicast Traffic     From 128.102.192.19
     |       __/  rtt  113 ms    Lost/Sent = Pct  Rate       To 224.2.202.21
     v      /     hop  -28 s     ---------------------     --------------------
128.102.192.16  meyers.arc.nasa.gov 
     |     ^      ttl   16   
     v     |      hop  258 s   1005/1011 = 99%  53 pps     0/0    = --%   0 pps
128.102.84.150  arcbone.arc.nasa.gov 
     |     ^      ttl   32   
     v     |      hop -257 s      0/11   =  0%   0 pps     0/0    = --%   0 pps
192.203.230.242 mbone2.nsi.nasa.gov 
     |     ^      ttl   33   
     v     |      hop -207 ms     0/95   =  0%   5 pps     0/0    = --%   0 pps
192.203.230.241 mbone.nsi.nasa.gov 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Feb 27 03:07:47 1996
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To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
Cc: Bill Fenner <fenner@parc.xerox.com>, mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: nasa broadcast problems? 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 27 Feb 96 10:45:12 PST."
             <199602271845.KAA01027@rah.star-gate.com> 
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:07:47 PST
From: Bill Fenner <fenner@parc.xerox.com>
Message-Id: <96Feb27.110757pst.177478@crevenia.parc.xerox.com>
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In message <199602271845.KAA01027@rah.star-gate.com> you write:
>I am having problems receiving audio this is what the mtrace shows
>over here:

nren-vod is not transmitting the NASA Shuttle mission audio, nor is 224.2.202.21
the group that the shuttle mission is being transmitted on.  Gary Paden
announced on rem-conf@es.net that KSC was taking over the transmission
because of a hardware failure at Ames, and for some reason they created new
groups instead of re-using the old ones.

  Bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Feb 27 03:18:52 1996
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To: Bill Fenner <fenner@parc.xerox.com>
Cc: "Amancio Hasty Jr." <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>, mbone@ISI.EDU,
        jmeylor@volcano.arc.nasa.gov
Subject: Re: nasa broadcast problems? 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 27 Feb 1996 08:47:11 PST."
             <96Feb27.084725pst.177478@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> 
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From: John Meylor <jmeylor@volcano.arc.nasa.gov>
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We're looking into this right now.  Performance throgh this tunnel actually 
looks
fine although mtrace says otherwise.

- John Meylor

> In message <199602270720.XAA01964@rah.star-gate.com> you write:
> >Is anyone else seeing this or is it just me?
> 
> It's hard to see exactly what it is you're seeing, since you didn't specify
> the group address and the source-specific column is all 0's.  Try adding the
> group address to the mtrace command line and see what you get.
> 
>   Bill


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Feb 27 10:27:28 1996
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Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 15:27:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Chris Robson ATDNet Admin <crobson@dia.dia.mil>
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Solaris MROUTED
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Folks

I see a mrouted 3.5 release for solaris should I used this or is there a 3.8 
release for solaris.  (and I hoped not have to do kernel mods when going to 
solaris, guess I was wrong)

...chris


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Feb 27 07:02:20 1996
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From: elson@aeolus.jpl.nasa.gov (Lee Elson)
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To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: nv
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I'm having trouble with the X11 Screen Grab function of nv. The colors
are distorted when running on a (24-bit) SGI Indigo (running 5.3). 
This happens with an 8-bit gif file displayed with xv in either
8 or 24-bit mode. In addition, if I try to grab part of the
nv display, the colors are also distorted.  When I run on an 8-bit Sun,
I have none of these problems (nv version 3.3). Anyone have a good
method for multicast transmission of an X window on an SGI?


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Feb 27 09:40:10 1996
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From: batie@aahz.jf.intel.com (Alan Batie)
Subject: Re: mbone2.uu.net?
To: batie@aahz.jf.intel.com (Alan Batie)
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 17:40:10 -0800 (PST)
Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, mbone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <m0trTFS-000hyLC@aahz.jf.intel.com> from "Alan Batie" at Feb 27, 96 09:31:38 am
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> This is a freshly
> compiled vat 3.4 on BSD/OS 2.1, and vplay does play .wav files.

I lied: vat is one of the binary only apps.  Sorry to bother this list,
I've sent mail to the appropriate folks about it.

-- 
Alan Batie                     ------        What goes up, must come down.
batie@aahz.jf.intel.com        \    /        Ask any system administrator.
+1 503-264-8844 (voice)         \  /         --unknown
D0 D2 39 0E 02 34 D6 B4          \/          5A 41 21 8F 23 5F 08 9D 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Feb 28 07:29:30 1996
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Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 07:29:30 +0000 (GMT)
From: Graeme Wood <jaw@ucs.ed.ac.uk>
Reply-To: Graeme.Wood@ucs.ed.ac.uk
To: Chris Robson ATDNet Admin <crobson@dia.dia.mil>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Solaris MROUTED
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960227152507.427A-100000@dia.dia.mil>
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On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Chris Robson ATDNet Admin wrote:

> 
> Folks
> 
> I see a mrouted 3.5 release for solaris should I used this or is there a 3.8 
> release for solaris.  (and I hoped not have to do kernel mods when going to 
> solaris, guess I was wrong)

You want to fetch the Solaris_mc35.2.4 (for Solaris 2.4) or 
Solaris_mc35+.2.5 (for Solaris 2.5).  Both contain the kernel 
modifications to support IP multicast routing version 3.5 and mrouted 
version 3.8.  The kernels mod. version and mrouted version numbers are 
not the same.

The procedure for modifying the kernel in Solaris is much simpler than 
SunOS,  it amounts to replacing 3 files and rebooting.

=============================================================================
Graeme Wood                                 Email: Graeme.Wood@ucs.ed.ac.uk
Unix Systems Support                        Phone: +44 131 650 5003
The University of Edinburgh                 Fax:   +44 131 650 6552
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scottish MICE National Support Centre       Email: mice-nsc-scotland@ed.ac.uk
for your multimedia conferencing support    WWW:   http://mice.ed.ac.uk/mice/
=============================================================================


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Feb 28 03:28:57 1996
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From: "Brad Burdick [UUcom]" <bburdick@radio.com>
Message-Id: <199602281328.IAA15801@trystero.radio.com>
Subject: Re: mbone2.uu.net?
To: batie@aahz.jf.intel.com (Alan Batie)
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 08:28:57 -0500 (EST)
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <m0trTFS-000hyLC@aahz.jf.intel.com> from "Alan Batie" at Feb 27, 96 09:31:38 am
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> 
> > I have not been able to listen to World Radio Network for a while so 
> > tonite I did an mtrace:
> 
> I've just gotten us connected to mbone2.uu.net (cisco-cisco tunnel), and
> I *think* I'm getting WRN because the level meter in vat is up about halfway,
> and 204.62.246.73 is white, but I'm not hearing anything.  This is a freshly
> compiled vat 3.4 on BSD/OS 2.1, and vplay does play .wav files.
> 

the internet multicasting service tunnel is into mbone1.uu.net.  i have no
problems receiving wrn from another site (also with a tunnel to mbone1).

we occassionally lose our satellite link to wrn for various reasons, so this
might explain missing audio.

-brad
-- 
Brad Burdick                                      bburdick@radio.com
Internet Multicasting Service, NPB, Suite 1155, Washington, DC 20045
                Under contract from UUcom, Inc.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Feb 28 05:24:13 1996
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Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 13:24:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Elias Levy <aleph1@la.cyberworks.net>
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: MBONE Tunnel
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	CyberWorks, Inc. is looking for some kind person to provide
us with a Mbone tunnel. We are located in Los Angeles, CA. And our
network provider is net99. If you would like to help please send
me privite email.

Elias Levy / technology@cyberworks.net
Director of Technology
CyberWorks, Inc.
http://www.cyberworks.net/


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Feb 28 12:09:19 1996
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To: Graeme.Wood@ucs.ed.ac.uk
Cc: Chris Robson ATDNet Admin <crobson@dia.dia.mil>, mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Solaris MROUTED 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 28 Feb 1996 07:29:30 GMT."
             <Pine.SV4.3.91.960228072503.11411A@scorpio.ucs.ed.ac.uk> 
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 17:09:19 -0500
From: "Jeff Young" <young@mci.net>
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do you have an exact path for this file? (Solaris_mc35+.2.5)

> On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Chris Robson ATDNet Admin wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Folks
> > 
> > I see a mrouted 3.5 release for solaris should I used this or is there a 3.8 
> > release for solaris.  (and I hoped not have to do kernel mods when going to 
> > solaris, guess I was wrong)
> 
> You want to fetch the Solaris_mc35.2.4 (for Solaris 2.4) or 
> Solaris_mc35+.2.5 (for Solaris 2.5).  Both contain the kernel 
> modifications to support IP multicast routing version 3.5 and mrouted 
> version 3.8.  The kernels mod. version and mrouted version numbers are 
> not the same.
> 
> The procedure for modifying the kernel in Solaris is much simpler than 
> SunOS,  it amounts to replacing 3 files and rebooting.
> 
> =============================================================================
> Graeme Wood                                 Email: Graeme.Wood@ucs.ed.ac.uk
> Unix Systems Support                        Phone: +44 131 650 5003
> The University of Edinburgh                 Fax:   +44 131 650 6552
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Scottish MICE National Support Centre       Email: mice-nsc-scotland@ed.ac.uk
> for your multimedia conferencing support    WWW:   http://mice.ed.ac.uk/mice/
> =============================================================================
> 

Jeff Young
young@mci.net


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Feb 28 10:54:12 1996
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Cc: Graeme.Wood@ucs.ed.ac.uk, Chris Robson ATDNet Admin <crobson@dia.dia.mil>,
        mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Solaris MROUTED 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 28 Feb 96 17:09:19 EST.
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 96 18:54:12 PST
From: Van Jacobson <van@ee.lbl.gov>
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> do you have an exact path for this file? (Solaris_mc35+.2.5)

Try ftp://playground.sun.com/pub/multicast/Solaris_mc35+.2.5.tar.gz

 - Van

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Mar  1 13:15:12 1996
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Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 12:15:12 +0100 (MET)
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To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IPv6 obsoletes MBOEN?
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Will MBONE be obsoleted by IPv6?

I mean it in a way, that all hosts in a IPv6 Internetwork
are able to receive and send multicast traffic and so no
tunneling mechanisms and mrouted's are further needed?

alex

----------------------------------------------------------------
Alexander Specker      aspecker@hydra.informatik.uni-ulm.de
Gerbergasse 1          specker@faw.uni-ulm.de
89073 Ulm, Germany     URL: http://www.uni-ulm.de/~s_aspec1/
Tel. 0731/63643        Tel.(FAW): 0731/501-8691

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Feb 29 11:16:06 1996
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Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:16:06 +0000 (GMT)
From: Graeme Wood <jaw@ucs.ed.ac.uk>
Reply-To: Graeme.Wood@ucs.ed.ac.uk
To: Jeff Young <young@mci.net>
Cc: Chris Robson ATDNet Admin <crobson@dia.dia.mil>, mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Solaris MROUTED 
In-Reply-To: <199602282209.RAA16106@clone4.Reston.mci.net>
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On Wed, 28 Feb 1996, Jeff Young wrote:

> do you have an exact path for this file? (Solaris_mc35+.2.5)

Van has already mentioned playground.sun.com but for those in Europe, 
your nearest MICE National Support Centre FTP server will have this.  For 
Scotland the path is:

ftp://ftp.mice.ed.ac.uk/videoconference/ipmulticast/SunOS_5.5/Solaris_mc35+.2.5.tar.Z

=============================================================================
Graeme Wood                                 Email: Graeme.Wood@ucs.ed.ac.uk
Unix Systems Support                        Phone: +44 131 650 5003
The University of Edinburgh                 Fax:   +44 131 650 6552
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scottish MICE National Support Centre       Email: mice-nsc-scotland@ed.ac.uk
for your multimedia conferencing support    WWW:   http://mice.ed.ac.uk/mice/
=============================================================================


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Feb 29 11:28:51 1996
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To: Alexander Specker <aspecker@hydra.informatik.uni-ulm.de>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 obsoletes MBOEN?
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 29 Feb 1996 12:15:12 +0100." <199602291115.MAA10661@ampestinus.informatik.uni-ulm.de>
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:28:51 +0000
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>Will MBONE be obsoleted by IPv6?
>
>I mean it in a way, that all hosts in a IPv6 Internetwork
>are able to receive and send multicast traffic and so no
>tunneling mechanisms and mrouted's are further needed?

Clearly this depends on your definition of the Mbone.  I choose to
define the Mbone as that interconnected part of the internet that
supports multicast (whether tunnelled or native).  If every router
everywhere supported multicast, the term Mbone would not be useful,
but the Mbone itself would be ubiquitous.

Mark

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Feb 29 12:11:47 1996
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Date:  Thu, 29 Feb 1996 12:11:47 +0000
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Content-Identifier:  Re: Solaris MROU
Priority:  Non-Urgent
From: liaison <liaison@sheffield-hallam.ac.uk>
Message-Id:  <"1920263598-01816-00001 960229121147Z*/S=liaison/O=sheffield-hallam/PRMD=UK.AC/ADMD= /C=GB/"@MHS>
To: Jeff Young <young@mci.net>
Cc: "Graeme.Wood" <Graeme.Wood@ucs.edinburgh.ac.uk>, mbone <mbone@ISI.EDU>,
        Chris Robson ATDNet Admin <crobson@dia.dia.mil>
In-Reply-To:  <199602282209.RAA16106@clone4.Reston.mci.net>
References:  <Pine.SV4.3.91.960228072503.11411A@scorpio.ucs.ed.ac.uk>
Subject:  Re: Solaris MROUTED
Discarded-X400-Ipms-Extensions:  iso (1) memberBody (2) gb (826) (0) (1004) (10) (1) (1)
Sender: owner-mbone@ISI.EDU
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Hi,

>do you have an exact path for this file? (Solaris_mc35+.2.5)

  How about:
	
file://ftp.shu.ac.uk/pub/computing/packages/multicast/playground.sun.com/Solaris
_mc35+.2.5.tar.gz

  It looks, from your EMail address, that using playground directly will be 
quicker for you.

>> On Tue, 27 Feb 1996, Chris Robson ATDNet Admin wrote:
>> 
>> > 
>> > Folks
>> > 
>> > I see a mrouted 3.5 release for solaris should I used this or is there a 
3.8 
>> > release for solaris.  (and I hoped not have to do kernel mods when going 
to 
>> > solaris, guess I was wrong)
>> 
>> You want to fetch the Solaris_mc35.2.4 (for Solaris 2.4) or 
>> Solaris_mc35+.2.5 (for Solaris 2.5).  Both contain the kernel 
>> modifications to support IP multicast routing version 3.5 and mrouted 
>> version 3.8.  The kernels mod. version and mrouted version numbers are 
>> not the same.
>> 
>> The procedure for modifying the kernel in Solaris is much simpler than 
>> SunOS,  it amounts to replacing 3 files and rebooting.
>> 
>> 
=============================================================================
>> Graeme Wood                                 Email: Graeme.Wood@ucs.ed.ac.uk
>> Unix Systems Support                        Phone: +44 131 650 5003
>> The University of Edinburgh                 Fax:   +44 131 650 6552
>> 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Scottish MICE National Support Centre       Email: 
mice-nsc-scotland@ed.ac.uk
>> for your multimedia conferencing support    WWW:   
http://mice.ed.ac.uk/mice/
>> 
=============================================================================
>> 
>
>Jeff Young
>young@mci.net
>
>

Dave Haywood.
liaison@shu.ac.uk


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Mar  1 06:52:22 1996
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Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 11:52:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Arlie Davis <arlie@thepoint.net>
To: Alexander Specker <aspecker@hydra.informatik.uni-ulm.de>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IPv6 obsoletes MBOEN?
In-Reply-To: <199602291115.MAA10661@ampestinus.informatik.uni-ulm.de>
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> Will MBONE be obsoleted by IPv6?
> 
> I mean it in a way, that all hosts in a IPv6 Internetwork
> are able to receive and send multicast traffic and so no
> tunneling mechanisms and mrouted's are further needed?

I sure hope so.  Eventually, before we reach IPv6 or anything past IPv4, 
we should have close to full deployment of native multicast routing.

Right now, except for a few aggravatingly unenlightened Ascend products, 
my part of the network uses native multicast routing (on ciscos).

-- arlie

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Mar  1 21:36:24 1996
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From: Thomas Wolfram <wolf@prz.tu-berlin.de>
Date: Thu, 29 Feb 96 20:36:24 +0100
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Setting up a Cisco - again...
Cc: mbone-de@informatik.uni-erlangen.de
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Hi,

I'm trying to setup a DVMRP tunnel between a Sun running mrouted 3.8
and a Cisco 7010 running 11.0(5) Release version (we need (5) because
it seems to fix some problems with the ATM LAN Emulation stuff we need
too).
I've read all the Cisco docu and we tried something very similar to the
given examples:

...
ip multicast-routing
!
....
interface Tunnel0
 ip unnumbered Ethernet2/2
 ip pim dense-mode
 ip multicast ttl-threshold 32
 ip dvmrp metric 1 list 1
 ip dvmrp metric 0 list 2
 tunnel source Ethernet2/2
 tunnel destination 130.149.238.17
 tunnel mode dvmrp
!
...
interface Ethernet2/2
 ip address 130.149.226.92 255.255.255.0
 ip pim dense-mode
 ip multicast ttl-threshold 32
!
interface Ethernet2/3
 ip address 194.0.111.1 255.255.255.0
 ip pim dense-mode
!
...
access-list 1 permit 194.0.111.0 0.0.0.255
...<more>...
access-list 1 deny   any
access-list 2 permit any
!

The problem is that the Tunnel doesn't get active. It seems that
it only gets active when I disable the access list and use
just "ip dvmrp metric 1". But this is not what we want since then
the router will inject all of the unicast routes into the DVMRP
cloud (at least according to a e-mail from this mailing-list which
a colleague of me forwared to me).

Probably we did something wrong....
Any ideas?

Thank you in advance,
Thomas

PS:  Please Cc: to me directly too since I'm not on this list in the moment.
     (I was some time ago - new subscription request is still under way).
PPS: This is the setup of the so-called "NewsNet" show net (stupid
     name...) on the "CeBIT" computer show in Hannover/Germany in March.
     Like last year we want to use a Cisco 7010 to bring the multicast-
     traffic into all those exhibitor subnets of the show net who
     desired it (err, not many...). But this year I want to end
     the tunnel on the Cisco to make our life easier.

--
Thomas Wolfram                                   email: wolf@prz.tu-berlin.de
PRZ/EANTC, Technical University of Berlin        voice: +49 30 314 27606
http://www.prz.tu-berlin.de/~wolf                  fax: +49 30 314 25986
_____________________________________________________________________________
_____S__I__C____T__R__A__N__S__I__T____G__L__O__R__I__A____M__U__N__D__I_____

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Mar  1 08:37:46 1996
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Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 13:37:46 -0500
From: Rao Palacharla <rao@alpha.ps.iit.nrc.ca>
Message-Id: <9603011837.AA21838@alpha.ps.iit.nrc.ca>
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Media-on-demand software for DEC OSF/1??
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Status: RO


Has anyone ported the media-on-demand software (for rebroadcasting
mbone lectures from digitized/stored lectures) to
digital unix? If so, I would like to get a copy.
This software called vat_nv_record and is written
by Anders Klemets (klemets@sics.se).


thanx
bye
rao



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Mar  1 03:21:08 1996
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From: Chris Trown <ctrown@cheops.net.CSUChico.EDU>
Subject: HPUX 10.01 wierdness
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 1996 11:21:08 PST
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     I've noticed something strange with HPUX 10.01 and vat.  The problem
probably doesn't reside with vat, but...

     We have a tunnel from csu.net going straight into a Cisco running 11.x.
On one subnet we have a SGI listening to IMS: World Radio Network.  On a
different subnet is the HP box trying to listen to IMS: World Radio Network.
It shows up in the Session Directory and other users who are listening also
show up, except for the one user that really counts; Internet Multicasting 
Service".  The HP and the SGI are both equal hops from the tunnel head-end.
Even our SGI lab which takes an extra two hops gets everything fine.

     The HP can get the Shuttle broadcasts so it's not completely incapable of
receiving broadcasts.

     Anyone else seen this?  Vic and Vat have both been recompiled for HPUX
10.01.

Chris...

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Mar  1 11:43:07 1996
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From: Dave Thaler <thalerd@eecs.umich.edu>
Message-Id: <199603012143.QAA27926@dip.eecs.umich.edu>
Subject: Alpha release of snmp-mrouted3.8.2, mrtree, mconfig
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 16:43:07 -0500 (EST)
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Now available for ftp in:
   ftp://ftp.merit.edu/net-research/mbone/snmp/
or via
   http://www.merit.edu/net-research/mbone/.download.html

The SNMP-capable mrouted3.8.2 release fixes a few minor bugs in 3.8.1 and 
adds remote configuration capability.  In addition to mstat, this release 
also includes the mrtree and mconfig utilities.

mrtree is an SNMP-based utility for gathering information about a multicast 
tree rooted at a given router.  In the process of discovering a tree, it 
gathers information about the capabilities of the constituent routers as 
well as packet count statistics.

mconfig displays the MBone configuration of an SNMP-capable multicast router,
and allows modifying the configuration if the user knows an appropriate
community string.  This requires the existence of /etc/snmpd.private
on the router, containing a list of acceptable community strings separated
by whitespace.

Source and binaries are available for SunOS, Solaris, HP-UX, FreeBSD/BSDI,
and OSF/1.  SGI Irix binaries should be available shortly as well.
(Thanks to Magnus <e93_mda@it.kth.se> for Irix and HP-UX testing, and 
contributing code to the porting effort in general.)

Disclaimer: I've tested mstat and mconfig on all platforms listed above, 
but I've only tested the snmp-capable mrouted under SunOS and FreeBSD.  If 
you encounter any problems with the binaries for other platforms, let me 
know - they may need to be recompiled.

Finally, Merit is now mirroring most MBone applications under
   ftp://ftp.merit.edu/net-research/mbone/mirrors
and an index of MBone-related software is available at
   http://www.merit.edu/net-research/mbone/.archive.html

Dave Thaler

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Mar  2 10:08:12 1996
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Subject: Re: Alpha release of snmp-mrouted3.8.2, mrtree, mconfig
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------------------------------ Start of body part 1

Dave,

I have just installed your mrouted snmp 3.8.2 on a sparc running 
Solaris 2.5 with multicast 3.5+ provided by Sun.

When starting mrouted, the following error occurs

# ./mrouted -d 3
debug level 3
08:20:55.699 mrouted version 3.8
snmp_vars.c(318): nlist
# 


Michel

------------------------------ Start of body part 2

===============================================================================
 Michel Colin                                           Tel. +32-2-650 57 03
                                                        Fax: +32-2-629 38 16
 Universite Libre de Bruxelles
 Faculte des Sciences                            
 Service Telematique et Communication	       
 CP 230, Boulevard du triomphe
 B-1050 Bruxelles          	        
 BELGIUM                              

RFC822: colin@helios.iihe.rtt.be
X.400 : C=be;ADMD=rtt;PRMD=iihe;O=helios;S=colin;
X.500 : @c=be@o=Universite Libre de Bruxelles@ou=Faculte des Sciences@ou=Service        Telematique et Communication@cn=Michel Colin

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------ End of body part 2

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Mar  2 19:07:45 1996
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Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 17:07:45 +0200
Message-Id: <199603021507.RAA00541@silver.sms.fi>
From: Petri Helenius <pete@sms.fi>
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: SD packets
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  Has anybody gotten any light on the issue of duplicate SD packets? Running
tcpdump I seem to be getting 5-25 copies of each packet, all similar. Seems
like this is going to be a real problem :-)

Pete

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Mar  2 07:05:24 1996
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From: Arlie Davis <arlie@thepoint.net>
To: "'Petri Helenius'" <pete@sms.fi>
Cc: "'mbone@isi.edu'" <mbone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: SD packets
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 12:05:24 -0500
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As far as I know, SD packets _should_ be identical, or very similar.
If you are receiving 5-25 copies of each packet in quick succession 
(within one second, for example), then the routing infrastructure is 
probably duplicating packets.  However, if you are seeing duplicate 
packets that are spaced out to once per 30 seconds, or something 
similar, you are probably seeing the normal, intended behavior of the
tool.

-- arlie

----------
From: 	Petri Helenius[SMTP:pete@sms.fi]
Sent: 	Saturday, March 02, 1996 10:07 AM
To: 	mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: 	SD packets


  Has anybody gotten any light on the issue of duplicate SD packets? Running
tcpdump I seem to be getting 5-25 copies of each packet, all similar. Seems
like this is going to be a real problem :-)

Pete



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Mar  2 22:26:37 1996
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From: Petri Helenius <pete@sms.fi>
To: Arlie Davis <arlie@thepoint.net>
Cc: "'mbone@isi.edu'" <mbone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: SD packets
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Arlie Davis writes:
 > As far as I know, SD packets _should_ be identical, or very similar.
 > If you are receiving 5-25 copies of each packet in quick succession 
 > (within one second, for example), then the routing infrastructure is 
 > probably duplicating packets.  However, if you are seeing duplicate 
 > packets that are spaced out to once per 30 seconds, or something 
 > similar, you are probably seeing the normal, intended behavior of the
 > tool.
 > 
Sorry not being clear. I see no problem with getting multiple similar
sd packets every couple of minutes. I see a problem of getting them spaced
like this:
tcpdump: listening on ed1
20:24:57.552964 also.radio.com.32784 > 224.2.127.255.sd: udp 173
20:24:57.569331 also.radio.com.32784 > 224.2.127.255.sd: udp 173
20:24:57.596438 also.radio.com.32784 > 224.2.127.255.sd: udp 173
20:24:57.623562 also.radio.com.32784 > 224.2.127.255.sd: udp 173
20:24:57.643272 also.radio.com.32784 > 224.2.127.255.sd: udp 173
20:24:57.657432 also.radio.com.32784 > 224.2.127.255.sd: udp 173
20:24:57.674070 also.radio.com.32784 > 224.2.127.255.sd: udp 173
20:24:57.687590 also.radio.com.32784 > 224.2.127.255.sd: udp 173
20:24:57.704967 also.radio.com.32784 > 224.2.127.255.sd: udp 173
20:24:57.748316 also.radio.com.32784 > 224.2.127.255.sd: udp 173
20:24:57.780993 also.radio.com.32784 > 224.2.127.255.sd: udp 173
20:24:57.806888 also.radio.com.32784 > 224.2.127.255.sd: udp 173
20:25:03.915847 habrok.uio.no.4164 > 224.2.127.255.sd: udp 207
20:25:03.934045 habrok.uio.no.4164 > 224.2.127.255.sd: udp 207
20:25:03.964463 habrok.uio.no.4164 > 224.2.127.255.sd: udp 207
20:25:03.982694 habrok.uio.no.4164 > 224.2.127.255.sd: udp 207
20:25:04.014651 habrok.uio.no.4164 > 224.2.127.255.sd: udp 207
20:25:04.045476 habrok.uio.no.4164 > 224.2.127.255.sd: udp 207
20:25:04.073002 habrok.uio.no.4164 > 224.2.127.255.sd: udp 207
20:25:04.096550 habrok.uio.no.4164 > 224.2.127.255.sd: udp 207
20:25:04.113831 habrok.uio.no.4164 > 224.2.127.255.sd: udp 207

Pete


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Mar  3 21:25:16 1996
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To: Petri Helenius <pete@sms.fi>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: SD packets
In-Reply-To: Your message of Sat, 02 Mar 96 20:26:37 JST.
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 96 05:25:16 PST
From: Van Jacobson <van@ee.lbl.gov>
Sender: owner-mbone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

The duplicate packets you're seeing are from a multicast routing loop
(if you did "tcpdump -v" instead of just tcpdump you'd probably notice
that the ip id's are all the same & the ttl decrements by 1 in each
new packet).  There are no duplicates from either of those sites showing
up here so the loop is probably in the path from stockholm to you.

sd sends packets at a very low rate but something like

   mtrace -S 300 habrok.uio.no 224.2.127.255

should show you where the duplicates are being generated (just
look in the last stats column for the hop where lots more
packets came out than went in).

Duplicates are usually due to a misconfigured cisco running pim
although there can be other causes.

 - Van

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Mar  4 20:55:13 1996
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Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 18:55:13 +0200
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From: Petri Helenius <pete@sms.fi>
To: Van Jacobson <van@ee.lbl.gov>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: SD packets
In-Reply-To: <199603041325.FAA03743@rx7.ee.lbl.gov>
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Van Jacobson writes:
 > The duplicate packets you're seeing are from a multicast routing loop
 > (if you did "tcpdump -v" instead of just tcpdump you'd probably notice
 > that the ip id's are all the same & the ttl decrements by 1 in each
 > new packet).  There are no duplicates from either of those sites showing
 > up here so the loop is probably in the path from stockholm to you.
 >
The ttl decreases by three for each of the packets so the packets are
making a loop (a triangle) somewhere in the network. Unfortunately there
is one mrouted 3.3 in the way which breaks mtrace horribly:
Waiting to accumulate statistics... Results after 600 seconds:

  Source        Response Dest    Packet Statistics For     Only For Traffic
130.128.6.10    194.111.122.1    All Multicast Traffic     From 130.128.6.10
     v       __/  rtt  387 ms    Lost/Sent = Pct  Rate       To 224.2.127.255
130.128.6.10    isis.ietf.interop.net 
     v     ^      ttl   64       34/9459 =  0%  15 pps     3/15   = 20%   0 pps
128.125.1.14    mbone.usc.edu  
     v     ^      ttl   65       22/9425 =  0%  15 pps     0/12   =  0%   0 pps
204.70.170.29  
204.70.170.45   dec3800-1-fddi-1.LosAngeles.mci.net 
     v     ^      ttl   66      475/31490=  2%   0 pps     0/12   =  0%   0 pps
204.70.74.61   
204.70.74.77    dec3800-2-fddi-1.Washington.mci.net 
     v     ^      ttl   67     1905/23329=  8%   0 pps     2/12   = 17%   0 pps
204.70.64.61   
204.70.64.77    dec3800-2-fddi-1.WestOrange.mci.net 
     v     ^      ttl   68      585/60152=  1%   3 pps     0/10   = --%   0 pps
204.70.64.45   
204.70.64.29    dec3800-1-fddi-0.WestOrange.mci.net 
     v     ^      ttl   69      433/52153=  1%   5 pps     0/10   = --%   0 pps
198.67.134.250  ?              
     v     ^      ttl   70       49/63291=  0% 105 pps     0/10   = --%   0 pps
192.36.148.206  stockholm.mbone.ebone.net 
     v     ^      ttl   71          86500      144 pps       10           0 pps
128.214.1.252   directory.funet.fi 
     v     ^      ttl   72   -937513288/-937427308= --%-135721 pps  -157/0    = --%   0 pps
193.166.1.1     rip.funet.fi   
     v     ^      ttl   73    16485/85955= 19% 143 pps
192.36.148.49  
193.166.255.73  kiwi-gw.funet.fi 
     v     ^      ttl   74      707/10278=  7%  17 pps
193.166.255.74 
192.194.252.177 swallow-s2.sms.fi 
     v     ^      ttl   75      -38/1413 = -2%   2 pps
192.194.252.178
194.111.122.254 hideout-e0.sms.fi 
     v      \__   ttl   76          1415         2 pps
194.111.122.1   194.111.122.1
  Receiver      Query Source

 > should show you where the duplicates are being generated (just
 > look in the last stats column for the hop where lots more
 > packets came out than went in).
 >
I'll first try to get the 3.3 out the path to get decent statistics.

 > Duplicates are usually due to a misconfigured cisco running pim
 > although there can be other causes.

I'll try to figure out more, thanks for the pointer to look at the ttl.

Pete

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar  5 09:22:39 1996
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Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 14:22:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Chris Robson ATDNet Admin <crobson@dia.dia.mil>
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: SGI VIC and Galileo
Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960305140923.1664D-100000@dia.dia.mil>
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Does anyone have a Vic 2.7 for the SGI?

I have a standard video board with to connectors on it one goes to the 
little INdy Cam the other to a cable with COMP and Y/C input/outputs on 
it.  Has anyone figured out how to use this cable, ie. so you can use a 
Sony 8-MM instead of the Indy Cam with VIC?

tks....chris

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar  5 21:31:48 1996
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From: "Wessel de Roode" <wessel@Mat075207.student.utwente.nl>
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Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 20:31:48 +0100
In-Reply-To: Chris Robson ATDNet Admin <crobson@dia.dia.mil>
        "SGI VIC and Galileo" (Mar  5,  2:22pm)
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X-Face: 0!Z(ni#l<Sv*s|qM<unbLbT]U6"xLY:eZ3=8d"Xv|B2:.K6semF5OUa2oi`T8Lgj(1fa:+X$9a<JKAFt`z^o|,|.4],PE.PttNcw7l[4d1g@92~[4v\K7o_;wU:{oE]A>PG&^v^7~USe=jO0r%^:KZdlAiQH(exdn<95LUN~!Z77u8g13=
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To: Chris Robson ATDNet Admin <crobson@dia.dia.mil>, mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: SGI VIC and Galileo
Cc: wessel@Mat075207.student.utwente.nl
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On Mar 5,  2:22pm, Chris Robson ATDNet Admin wrote:
> Subject: SGI VIC and Galileo
> Does anyone have a Vic 2.7 for the SGI?
Yup I've a installable version of all the mbone tools on my ftp-site.

You can find it on:

http://mat075207.student.utwente.nl/pub/SGI/tardist/Audio_Video/
http://mat075207.student.utwente.nl/pub/SGI/tardist/Audio_Video/mbone.tardist.gz

It includes now:
    sd      1.18
    nv      3.3b
    wb      1.60 + fix for writing
    vic     2.7a29
    vat     4.0a2
    mmcc    0.55a
    radio   2.0.4

Also the mrouted is in a inst format there.

Cheeers Wessel


-- 
[---]
Your fortune cookie today is:

Decisions of the judges will be final unless shouted down by a really
overwhelming majority of the crowd present.  Abusive and obscene
language may not be used by contestants when addressing members of the
judging panel, or, conversely, by members of the judging panel when
addressing contestants (unless struck by a boomerang).
		-- Mudgeeraba Creek Emu-Riding and Boomerang-Throwing
		   Assoc.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar  5 12:12:06 1996
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	id AA17592; Tue, 5 Mar 96 17:12:06 EST
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 96 17:12:06 EST
From: llavu@cne.gmu.edu (Lava K. Lavu)
Message-Id: <9603052212.AA17592@cne.gmu.edu>
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Pruning
Cc: llavu@cne.gmu.edu
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Can someone suggest me how I can test
whether pruning is working or not.

	Thanks in advance.

Lavu.
llavu@cne.gmu.edu

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar  5 12:42:36 1996
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From: Arlie Davis <arlie@thepoint.net>
To: "'mbone@isi.edu'" <mbone@ISI.EDU>,
        "'mikej@thepoint.net'"
	 <mikej@thepoint.net>
Subject: Announcement: New audio tool for Windows 95 / Windows NT
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 17:42:36 -0500
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Media
Pre-release 0.10 for
Windows NT and Windows 95
by Arlie Davis

This is the first pre-release of my generalized stream application, =
called Media.  The primary purpose of this application is to send and =
receive media (audio and video) streams over packet- and cell-based =
networks. =20

Media is implemented using Microsoft Foundation Classes (MFC) and the =
Win32 API.

The application was developed using Microsoft's 32-bit WinSock 1.1 =
TCP/IP stack.  The definitions of some constants relating the TCP/IP =
multicast under WinSock 1.1 vary from vendor to vendor.  You will need =
to use Microsoft's stack or a stack which adheres to their standard.

Basically, at this point, the only thing Media is good for is listening =
to multicast streams of GSM, DVI4/ADPCM, and PCM streams.  The framework =
for many more codecs and abilities is there, but is not yet ready for =
prime time.

Use of Media should be self-explanatory.  Start the application, and =
select Session, New to create a new multicast listener.  You will be =
prompted for the multicast group and port number.  The multicast session =
display shows the total packet and byte counts received and a list of =
all of the unique stream sources for that group.  Double-click on the =
source address for more information about that source. If you have a =
sound card, and the source is GSM, DVI4/ADPCM, or PCM, you should hear =
audio output.

If you have comments or questions about this software, feel free to mail =
me at arlie@thepoint.net.  Don't bother complaining; this is pre-alpha =
software.  I will continue to develop this software for some time to =
come, so if you are disappointed by it in its current form, just wait a =
week or two.

Arlie Davis
arlie@thepoint.net
You can download Media at these locations:

ftp://ftp.thepoint.net/Archive/Internet/Interactive%20media/Media/Media.z=
ip
http://archive.thepoint.net/Internet/Interactive%20media/Media/Media.zip


Features

Runs on Windows 95 and Windows NT.  Win32 is the de facto standard for =
modern multimedia applications.
Media is built on a generalized framework.  It is not a single-protocol =
hack.
Supports multicast.

Bugs

Receive-only, right now
No video support (at least not releasable yet)
Not integrated with SD application (yet)
Even though the framework supports Speak Freely and CU See Me, the =
codecs aren't there yet.

Audio formats supported

GSM.  Based on the GSM library version 1.07.
ADPCM / DVI4 at 8K and 16K samples/second.
PCM.  Untested.

Encapsulations supported

RTP version 0 (the pseudo-standard that VAT uses, version 3 and prior)
RTP version 1
RTP version 2
Speak Freely
CU See Me (simplex; no client-client or client-reflector negotiation =
protocol support)

Networks supported

TCP/IP, unicast and multicast

Planned features

More audio formats
Video
Transmission of video and audio
Support for ATM, if possible
Integration of my SD tool
Support for recording and playback of media streams
Technical support








From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Mar  7 00:32:59 1996
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To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Cc: nvat@edd.mms.mt.nec.co.jp
Subject: NVAT (Network Video Audio Tool) 2nd alpha release
X-Mailer: Mew version 1.03 on Emacs 19.28.1, Mule 2.3
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ANNOUNCE: NVAT (Network Video Audio Tool) 2nd alpha release
===========================================================

Dear readers:

We announce the second alpha release of NVAT (Network Video Audio Tool).
Some minor bugs are fixed in this version.

NVAT is an Internet teleconferencing tool which is designed to save
network traffic, and works under rather narrow network bandwidth
(64Kbps).  It is an IP multicast enabled application on Windows 95 and
Windows NT, and compatible with MBone standard applications, namely NV
and VAT.

In this version,
  - NVAT supports not only a multicast but also a unicast.
  - NVAT supports sending audio only traffic.
  - NVAT supports receiving either audio or video only.

NVAT Web Page is up now.  You can get detailed information and the alpha
release software from the following URL:

  http://www1.meshnet.or.jp/~mms-eizo/nvat/index.html

NVAT is currently alpha release.  We welcome your ideas, suggestions and
questions.  We appreciate the time you take to point out any problems,
bugs and strange behaviors you encounter.

Please send e-mail to the following address:

  mms-eizo@www1.meshnet.or.jp

NOTES: This release of software is free, and the use is limited for
research and evaluation purposes.


Regards,

NVAT Development Team


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar  6 07:25:23 1996
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To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: MAE-BONE is down
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MAE-bone.psi.net is off of the network.  there is a problem with its connection
to the 10Mbps MAE-East.  MFS has been notified and they are working on the
problem.

It has been down since 10:00 EST.  No ETR.

Mark Fedor
PSINet


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Mar  7 21:13:22 1996
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          Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:13:28 +1000
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Cc: ccdvu@cc.uq.oz.au
Subject: vic_record anyone?
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 11:13:22 +1000
From: David Vu <ccdvu@cc.uq.oz.au>
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Hi,

I would like to record vic multicasts + vat multicasts to disk for playback
later, especially for multicasts that occur at night.  Is there such a tool to 
do this very useful thing?  I am newcomer so please pardon my ignorance.  
I believe there's a vat_nv_record tool already for nv/vat multicasts.

I think such a tool would be very useful and I would like to know if there
is such a tool or if one is being developed.

Many thanks,

David Vu                             | Prentice Centre
Email  D.Vu@cc.uq.oz.au              | The University of Queensland
Phone: +61 7 3365 3941               | Brisbane Q  4072
FAX:   +61 7 3365 4477               | Australia

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Mar  7 13:06:08 1996
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  (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for mbone@ISI.EDU); Thu, 7 Mar 1996 10:06:08 +0300
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 10:06:08 +0300
From: Andrey Bobyshev <bobyshev@ns.itep.ru>
Message-Id: <199603070706.AA01984@ns.itep.ru>
To: mbone@ISI.EDU, ccdvu@cc.uq.oz.au
Subject: Re: vic_record anyone?
Sender: owner-mbone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO

Hi,

 You can try to use VCR tool which is available
at URL  http://www.informatik.uni-mannheim.de/~whd/mbone-vcr/

		Regards,
			Andrey Bobyshev,
			ITEP, Moscow, Russia.

> Hi,
> 
> I would like to record vic multicasts + vat multicasts to disk for playback
> later, especially for multicasts that occur at night.  Is there such a tool to 
> do this very useful thing?  I am newcomer so please pardon my ignorance.  
> I believe there's a vat_nv_record tool already for nv/vat multicasts.
> 
> I think such a tool would be very useful and I would like to know if there
> is such a tool or if one is being developed.
> 
> Many thanks,
> 
> David Vu                             | Prentice Centre
> Email  D.Vu@cc.uq.oz.au              | The University of Queensland
> Phone: +61 7 3365 3941               | Brisbane Q  4072
> FAX:   +61 7 3365 4477               | Australia
> 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Mar  7 03:10:01 1996
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Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:10:01 -0500
From: rodgers@nlm.nih.gov (R. P. C. Rodgers, M.D.)
Message-Id: <9603071310.AA26065@billings.nlm.nih.gov>
To: mbone@ISI.EDU, ccdvu@cc.uq.oz.au
Subject: Re: vic_record anyone?
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MBONE Colleagues,

I send this to the list only because it is a question that has appeared
frequently as of late.  Ander Klemets has deprecated further use of his
nv and vat record/play tools, considering them out-of-date.  He points
people instead to the "MBONE VCR" project:

   http://www.informatik.uni-mannheim.de/~whd/mbone-vcr/

Best Regards, Rick Rodgers

> From majordom@ISI.EDU Wed Mar  6 20:31 EST 1996
> To: mbone@ISI.EDU
> Cc: ccdvu@cc.uq.oz.au
> Subject: vic_record anyone?
> Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 11:13:22 +1000
> From: David Vu <ccdvu@cc.uq.oz.au>
> Sender: owner-mbone-na@ISI.EDU
> Content-Type: text
> Content-Length: 671
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I would like to record vic multicasts + vat multicasts to disk for playback
> later, especially for multicasts that occur at night.  Is there such a tool to 
> do this very useful thing?  I am newcomer so please pardon my ignorance.  
> I believe there's a vat_nv_record tool already for nv/vat multicasts.
> 
> I think such a tool would be very useful and I would like to know if there
> is such a tool or if one is being developed.
> 
> Many thanks,
> 
> David Vu                             | Prentice Centre
> Email  D.Vu@cc.uq.oz.au              | The University of Queensland
> Phone: +61 7 3365 3941               | Brisbane Q  4072
> FAX:   +61 7 3365 4477               | Australia
> 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Mar  7 13:54:53 1996
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Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:54:53 +0000
From: "Alan J. Flavell" <FLAVELL@v2.ph.gla.ac.uk>
Reply-To: A.Flavell@physics.gla.ac.uk
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: MBone VCR
Message-Id: <Pine.VMS.3.91-vms-b4.960307134635.43141B-100000@v2.ph.gla.ac.uk>
Organization: Glasgow University Particle Physics Group
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A few weeks back, I learned of the MBone VCR and tried to get it
for the DEC ALPHA OSF/1 V3.2 system.  I retrieved both the binary
and the source, in the hope of using one or other.

The source won't build - I get an error thus:

MediaSchedule.PHPQ.cc: In method `void MediaSchedulePHPQ::prealloc(int)':  
MediaSchedule.PHPQ.cc:92: `i' undeclared (first use this function)  

On the other hand when I try the binary that I'd retrieved, I get

vcr: /sbin/loader: Fatal Error: cannot map libXext.so.6.0 

I can see a file named libXext.so.6.0 in the directory, but haven't
found any instructions what to do with it, and (I suppose I'm
inadequately unix-literate for this) I haven't managed to guess.

I emailed the indicated email address at the time I first met
these problems, but no response. Can someone help me out, please?



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Mar  7 15:15:59 1996
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Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:15:59 +0000
From: "Alan J. Flavell" <FLAVELL@v2.ph.gla.ac.uk>
Reply-To: A.Flavell@physics.gla.ac.uk
To: Christian Isnard - CERN/CN/CS <isnard@dxcoms.cern.ch>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: MBone VCR
In-Reply-To: <9603071437.AA21029@dxcoms.cern.ch>
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On Thu, 7 Mar 1996, Christian Isnard - CERN/CN/CS wrote:

> > vcr: /sbin/loader: Fatal Error: cannot map libXext.so.6.0

> Please try and copy libXext.so.6.0 to /usr/local/lib/X11 or /usr/lib/X11
> directory.

Well, I have no /usr/local/lib/X11; I tried /usr/lib/X11 and it made
no difference.

However, on looking more closely, I could see there was a libXext.so
in /usr/shlib, so I tried copying libXext.so.6.0 to there also.  This
made a difference ...  now I got the error:

vcr: /sbin/loader: Fatal Error: cannot map libX11kb.so.6.0

So I decided to follow your other advice  ;-)  about vcr.stat

I'm sorry, I had not realised that vcr.stat was an alternative
executable for vcr.  I don't find this explained in the README.
It executes and displays a panel, so I guess this will work.

I apologise for using up so many people's time.
I haven't really _used_ the app yet, I just wanted to thank you
and the other people who emailed me, for their help.


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Mar  7 07:12:32 1996
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From: "Mahesh Ramachandran" <rr@eel.ufl.edu>
Message-Id: <199603071712.AA270058755@sioux.eel.ufl.edu>
Subject: AVT meeting recording
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:12:32 -0500 (EST)
Organization: Electrical Engineering, University of Florida     ___
X-Phone: (904) 392-4568                                        <o,o>
X-Operating-System: HP-UX B.10.01 9000/715                     ( . )
X-Url: http://www.eel.ufl.edu/~rr                              -"-"-
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hello,

Is a recording of the ietf avt meeting available some place?
Our tunnel to sura(bbnplanet) has been down all week. :(

thx
-rr


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Mar  8 14:07:03 1996
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To: mbone@ISI.EDU
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii

Has anyone got HP-UX 10.xx w/FDDI to run MBone? Any help
would be appreciated!

- -Svenn
- --=20
| Svenn Agnar Hanssen                 | EMAIL : svenn@cc.uit.no
| University Computer Centre          | PRIV  : svenn@hanssen.priv.no
| University of Troms=F8, N-9037 Troms=F8 | PHONE : +47 77 64 41 06
| http://www.cc.uit.no/~svenn         | FAX   : +47 77 64 41 00
| Key fingerprint =3D  DE 9A D7 23 7C 82 14 F7  9C 16 64 5B 90 BD BA 4B



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: latin1

iQCVAwUBMUAi5Md0rhZ7+X1ZAQEwSwP/egG419gGF/Atwxjtd1XIm6AdpH9UHaSs
nVWn/nv/PzsiYmSlmQa3Bfq+nHteh7NOWFlj2Yk1kUw/s48E+u23BP0+8qdRbB9N
DVVQhcX4FRYM5j7+PdSgyJE6DFtTUfDLPQ2PtzA+77CbdlVrA2eZryUv1KuIrGqd
ZuhDzV/nqvQ=3D
=3DClBe
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Mar 11 05:08:01 1996
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 10:08:01 -0500
From: chaliu@ees1s0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Changdong Liu)
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We are looking for some kind person to provide us with a
Mbone tunnel. We are located in New York, NY.
And our network provider is PSI. If you would like
to help please send me privite email.
=============================================================
-- Changdong Liu
   EE/CUNY			212-650-7159
   140 St. @ Convent Ave	chaliu@ees1s0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu
   New York, NY 10031

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 12 14:20:52 1996
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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 13:20:52 +0100
From: Gorm Haug Eriksen <g.h.eriksen@usit.uio.no>
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Could someone recomend a video card for the above alphastation 
for use with mbone?

Many thanks,

- Gorm


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 12 06:02:16 1996
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From: Chris Robson ATDNet Admin <crobson@dia.dia.mil>
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: VIC ATM interface
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A quick look at VIC shows a FORE ATM interface.

Anyone now anything about this?  How does it work.  Any clear docs on it? 
etc?

..chris


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 12 10:05:01 1996
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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 15:05:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Chris Robson ATDNet Admin <crobson@dia.dia.mil>
To: Stan Barber <sob@academ.com>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: VIC ATM interface
In-Reply-To: <199603121945.NAA17827@academ.com>
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Stan

Sorry my question wasnt clear enough.  I know Fore as ATM adapters.  what 
I want to know has anyone played with the VIC Fore ATM interface.  If so 
how do you use it.  I have not found any clear docs on it's use, i.e. 
activate the Fore API on the VIC code?

...chris
On Tue, 12 Mar 1996, Stan Barber wrote:

> FORE has a number of host-based ATM cards.
> 
> -- 
> Stan   | Academ Consulting Services        |internet: sob@academ.com
> Olan   | For more info on academ, see this |uucp: {mcsun|amdahl}!academ!sob
> Barber | URL- http://www.academ.com/academ |Opinions expressed are only mine.
> 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 12 08:07:52 1996
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From: sob@academ.com (Stan Barber)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 14:07:52 CST
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Ah. Sorry, can't help you there.

-- 
Stan   | Academ Consulting Services        |internet: sob@academ.com
Olan   | For more info on academ, see this |uucp: {mcsun|amdahl}!academ!sob
Barber | URL- http://www.academ.com/academ |Opinions expressed are only mine.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 12 10:18:18 1996
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Date:     Tue, 12 Mar 96 15:18:18 EST
From: Phil Dykstra <phil@ARL.MIL>
To: "Cyndi M. Jung" <cmj@nsd.3com.com>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject:  Re:  mrouted-3.8 pruning broken
Message-Id:  <9603121518.aa06370@ADMII.ARL.MIL>
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> So, until 4.0 is available, don't use redundant paths for DVMRP.

Speaking of redundant paths, is it okay to have parallel tunnels
between the same two mrouted machines?  We are doing that on DREN
where one tunnel goes over our ATM net (AAI) and the other over
our traditional IP net (IDREN).  We put a metric of 1 on the first
and 2 on the second.  The intent is to provide redundancy in case
the ATM net goes down, yet put a preference on the ATM path.

How good is mrouted-3.8 and dealing with such parallel paths?

- Phil

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 12 05:42:46 1996
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To: cmj@nsd.3com.com, phil@arl.mil
Subject: Re:  mrouted-3.8 pruning broken
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
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>Speaking of redundant paths, is it okay to have parallel tunnels
>between the same two mrouted machines?

Tunnels work fine.  This problem only arises when you have multiple
neighbors, which you can't on a tunnel =).

  Bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 13 07:05:23 1996
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From: "Dr. Ralf Wegner" <Ralf.Wegner@gmd.de>
Message-Id: <9603131505.ZM-1029163@mat_pc6.gmd.de>
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 15:05:23 -0800
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To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: german announcement
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Announcement: PersonalR@dio

PersonalR@dio - A sophisticated radio broadcast scheme in the World Wide Web
                (in german language)

The German News broadcaster Bavaria 5 (B 5), German research center for 
Information Technology (GMD) and two of GMD's spin Off  companies, namely 
Gesellschaft fuer Kommunikation und Kooperation (gekko) and the engineering 
office Horz & Schnepf (H&S) present a full radio broadcast scheme on the World 
Wide Web with the aid of Xing Technology products.
Although there have been some radio broadcast projects already been started on 
the Internet or Mbone, PersonalR@dio is the first of its kind in Germany, 
entailing complete news broadcasts comprising several advanced and complex on 
line tools. PersonalR@dio will start its service with the begin of the CeBit'96 
exhibition at Hannover (Germany).

Please take a look at our sites at:   http://mats.gmd.de/BR5/ 
                                            and:   http://www.br-online.de/     
 on the World Wide Web.

Facing the technological challenges of the new media age,  the news channel 'B5 
aktuell' broadcasts directly  to the Internet. The program is continuously 
updated and news will be available on the Internet, some half an hour after they 
break out !!
PersonalR@dio is based on four services/techniques:

1. live stream access - real-time audio
2. live stream splitting due to the program scheme of B 5 aktuell and 
     automatically updated archive (up to 7 days) - real-time audio
3.field of interest archives (e.g. teleteaching) - real-time audio and download 
of audio files
4. additional multimedia information

The 'B5 aktuell' signals are broadcasted from Munich via satellite (Astra-Sat) 
which are received at GMD in Sankt Augustin. The signals are further encoded and 
prepared for the Internet using Xing encoding and server techniques.
For 'live' and 'on demand' streams the signals are duplicated and processed 
automatically for complete 'B5 aktuell' broadcast scheme.
There is also an archive system with specific audio broadcasts  such as 
interviews or educational programs which may be accessed in parallel.
Although the technology of Xing provides higher bit rates for audio quality 
broadcasts, the encoded bit rates used here are mainly 11 Kbit/s. This is a 
compromise between better audio quality and reaching a larger number of end 
users ('B5 aktuell' can be accessed by down to 14400 baud modems).
The technology of Xing also allows to broadcast into the Mbone (which would be 
the state of the art for live streams). But since most of all PC are running 
Microsoft Windows (no Mbone support by the current Winsock implementation) most 
users would not receive the signal. This is why PersonalR@dio broadcasts up to 
now exclusively into the Internet.

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------
Dr. Ralf Wegner
                        GMD
National Research Center for Information Technology
         Institute for Media Communication
    Multimedia Applications in Telecooperation

GMD.IMK (MAT)                http://mats.gmd.de/ralf
Schloss Birlinghoven          Tel: +49 2241 14-2106
Postfach 13 16                Fax: +49 2241 14-2449
D-53731 Sankt Augustin      EMail: ralf.wegner@gmd.de
-----------------------------------------------------

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 13 16:21:53 1996
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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 16:21:53 +0000
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From: Per Mattsson <per@tip.net>
Subject: Get me of this list please.
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If i ask the listserver i am not on the list, but i still get mail.
Can this be stopped.

Thank you.
Per


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 13 12:54:59 1996
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To: isads-distr@fokus.gmd.de
Subject: ISADS 97 - Call for Papers
Cc: intelmann@fokus.gmd.de
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 12:54:59 +0000
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In the following you will find the Call for Papers for The Third
International Symposium on Autonomous Decentralized Systems (ISADS 97).

             *******  APOLOGIES FOR ANY DUPLICATE  *******
_____________________________________________________________________________

                         *********************
                         *  CALL FOR PAPERS  *
                         *********************

                                ISADS 97
    The Third International Symposium on Autonomous Decentralized Systems

                           April 9 - 11, 1997
                             Berlin, Germany


Sponsored by:        IEEE Computer Society
                     Information Processing Society of Japan
                     The Society of Instrument and Control Engineers of Japan

In Cooperation with: International Federation for Information Processing
                     International Federation of Automatic Control
                     Gesellschaft fuer Informatik


Scope
======
Driven by the increasing power, intelligence, reliability, and openness of
computer, communication and control technologies, a new generation of
distributed systems is emerging, that will be able to support distributed
business and control applications with extreme efficiency, reliability and
security requirements.  Such systems are expected to consist of largely
autonomous, decentralized and geographically dispersed components
interacting via communication networks, and are thus called Autonomous
Decentralized Systems (ADS).

After the successful first and second International Symposium on Autonomous
Decentralized Systems (ISADS) held in 1993 in Japan and in 1995 in the USA,
the third ISADS will be held in Berlin, Germany, on April 9 - 11, 1997.
ISADS 97 will primarily focus on advancements and innovations in ADS
platforms and applications. Integration of telecommunication and computing
aspects into a uniform concept for providing an open distributed processing
environment is a key factor.

ISADS invites papers and panel proposals on the topic of the symposium that
will foster interactions among researchers and practitioners in computer,
(tele)communication, management, control and other related fields from
academia, industry and government. The scope of ADS encompasses but is not
limited to:

- Telecommunication information networking architecture / Intelligent
  networks / Internet;
- Distributed system development and maintainance;
- Distributed control and its supporting platforms;
- Object management architecture / Design patterns / Application frameworks;
- Platform and application interoperability;
- Reference models for ADS;
- Computer-supported cooperative work / Virtual enterprise;
- Legacy system integration;
- Novel applications of ADS: manufacturing systems, realtime environments,
  office automation, traffic and transportation control, electronic commerce,
  etc.


Information for Authors
=======================
Send 6 copies of an original (not submitted or published elsewhere) full
paper (12 point, double-spaced) with 3000 - 6000 words - in paper form only
- to the address given below.
Papers should include: title, authors, affiliations, 150-word abstract and
list of keywords.
Identify the author responsible for correspondence, including the author's
name, position, mailing address, telephone and fax numbers, and email
address.
One of the authors of each accepted paper must present the paper at ISADS 97.


Information for Panel Organizers
=================================
Send 6 copies of panel proposals - in paper form only - to the address
given below.
Panel proposals should include: title, organizer's affiliations, position,
mailing address, telephone and fax numbers, email address, and 150-word
scope statement, proposed chair and panelists.


Submission Address
===================

         Juergen Nehmer
         ISADS 97 Program Chair
         Universitaet Kaiserslautern
         Fachbereich Informatik
         Postfach 3049
         D-67653 Kaiserslautern
         GERMANY

         Email: nehmer@informatik.uni-kl.de
         Phone: +49-631-205-4020
         Fax:   +49-631-205-3558.


General Information
====================
For program information contact the Program Chair above.
For additional information see World-Wide Web:

           http://www.fokus.gmd.de/ws/isads97/
           -----------------------------------

or return the 'Expression of Interest in ISADS 97' appended below.

The proceedings of the symposium will be published by IEEE Computer Society
Press.


Important Deadlines
====================
- July 15, 1996: All paper and panel proposals due.
- October 1, 1996: Panel proposals and authors notified of acceptance.
- December 2, 1996: Camera-ready copies of accepted papers and panelists'
  position papers due.


Support
=======
ISADS 97 is supported by: Hitachi, DeTeBerkom, NEC, Digital, GMD-FOKUS,
                          Hewlett Packard, IBM

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

General Chair
=============
Radu Popescu-Zeletin, GMD-FOKUS/T.U. Berlin, Germany
Fax: +49-30-25499-202
Email: zeletin@fokus.gmd.de

Program Committee
==================
Chair: Juergen Nehmer, U. Kaiserslautern, Germany
Vice-Chair: Richard Soley, OMG, USA
Vice-Chair: Yuji Inoue, NTT, Japan

Ricardo Baeza-Yates, U. de Chile, Chile
Farokh B. Bastani, U. of Houston, USA
Hendrik Berndt, Global One, USA
Sujeet Chand, Rockwell Int. Corp., USA
Jung W. Cho, KAIST, Korea
Partha Dasgupta, Arizona State U., USA
Domenico Ferrari, U. Cattolica, Piacenza, Italy
Hiroyuki Fujita, Tokyo U., Japan
Michel Gien, Chorus Systems, France
Deb Guha, TINA-C, USA
Chris Horn, IONA, Ireland
V. Jagannathan, West Virginia U., USA
Charles Jung, IBM, USA
Tohru Kikuno, Osaka U., Japan
Kane Kim, UC Irvine, USA
Shinzo Kitamura, Kobe U., Japan
Hermann Kopetz, T.U. Vienna, Austria
Chi T. R. Lai, Int. Softw. Process Const., USA
Guy Leduc, U. de Liege, Belgium
Jeffrey N. Magee, Imperial College, UK
Bernd Mahr, T.U. Berlin, Germany
Manuel d. J. Mendes, Pont. U. Catolica, Brasil
Kinji Mori, Hitachi, Japan
Max Muehlhaeuser, U. of Linz, Austria
C. V. Ramamoorthy, UC Berkeley, USA
Gerd Schuermann, GMD-FOKUS, Germany
Norio Shiratori, Tohoku U., Japan
Ralf Steinmetz, T.U. Darmstadt, Germany
Liba Svobodova, IBM Research, Switzerland
Makoto Takizawa, Tokyo Denki U., Japan
Ahmed Tantawy, IBM Research, USA
Volker Tschammer, GMD-FOKUS, Germany
Paulo Verissimo, F.C.U.L, Portugal
Feng-Jian Wang, Nat. Chiao-Tung U., Taiwan
Roberto Zicari, U. of Frankfurt, Germany

Operations Committee
=====================
Barbara Intelmann, GMD-FOKUS, Germany
Katsumi Kawano, Hitachi, Japan
Eckhard Moeller, GMD-FOKUS, Germany
Eric Mordoh, IKV, Germany
Volker Tschammer, GMD-FOKUS, Germany

Advisory Committee
===================
Juergen Kanzow, DeTeBerkom, Germany
Nobuhiko Koike, NEC, Germany

____________________________________________

Steering Committee
===================
Chair: Stephen S. Yau, Arizona State U., USA (IEEE)
Yoshikazu Nishikawa, Kyoto U., Japan (SICE)
Masanori Ozeki, RTRI, Japan (IPSJ)




------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                   *Expression of Interest in ISADS 97*

Yes, I am interested in ISADS 97.


Name (including title):
Affiliation:
Address:
Phone:
Fax:
Email:



[ ]  I would like to receive further information about ISADS 97. 
     Please put me on your mailing list.

[ ]  I intend to submit a full paper to ISADS 97.

     - Provisional title:


     - Provisional list of authors:


     - Presented by:



Please indicate and return to

          Email: isads97@fokus.gmd.de
          ---------------------------

          or to

          ISADS 97
          GMD-FOKUS
          Hardenbergplatz 2
          D-10623 Berlin
          GERMANY

          Phone: +49-30-25499-309/200
          Fax:   +49-30-25499-202.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 13 01:41:40 1996
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From: "Bill Nowicki" <nowicki@tree.engr.sgi.com>
Message-Id: <9603130941.ZM21471@tree.engr.sgi.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 09:41:40 -0800
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 18dec95 MediaMail)
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Patch 1092 released for IRIX 5.3 
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At long last, an "official" version of mrouted 3.8 has been
released from Silicon Graphics.  If you have a support contract
or are under warranty, contact your service representative
(sorry, not me, please) and request patch number 1092 for
IRIX 5.3.  This has all the networking bug fixes to date
plus mrouted 3.8, the new netstat, etc. and thus replaces
the .tar file FTPable from ftp.sgi.com. The .tar file will
continue to be available on an unsupported basis.

Of course, if you are happy with what you have, no need to
do anything. IRIX 6.2 is also releasing this week, which
includes mrouted 3.8, but that will take some time to
get sent out to the field.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 13 02:31:39 1996
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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 10:31:39 -0800 (PST)
From: William Di Scipio <discipio@crl.com>
To: Per Mattsson <per@tip.net>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Get me of this list please.
In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19960313162153.00949440@mailbox.tip.net>
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I've asked numerous times for help getting off this list.  Please let me 
know what you find out.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 13 06:43:59 1996
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	id AA21344; Wed, 13 Mar 96 14:44:00 PST
From: brutzman@cs.nps.navy.mil (Don Brutzman)
Message-Id: <9603132244.AA21344@cs.nps.navy.mil>
Subject: BOOK:  "MBone: Interactive Multimedia on the Internet"
To: mbone@ISI.EDU (Multicast Backbone mail list),
        rem-conf@es.net (Remote Conferencing mail list)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 14:43:59 -0800 (PST)
Cc: iirg@navy.stl.nps.navy.mil (Information Infrastructure Research Group)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25]
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Unsolicited plug:  this is a great book!  I recommend it for anyone interested
in using the MBone.  Besides providing a thorough overview of key topics,
Vinay's chapter "System Administrator's Guide to the MBone" covers a lot of
advanced concepts and tools clearly in one place.

Kumar, Vinay, _MBone: Interactive Multimedia on the Internet_, New Riders
Publishing, Indianapolis Indiana, 1996.  ISBN 1-56205-397-3.
(U.S.) Library of Congress QA76.76.I59K85 

Of course Vinay's page is at http://www.best.com/~prince/techinfo/mbone.html
New Riders is at http://www.mcp.com/newriders
List price on the back $32 USA/$44 Canada/29.49 UK

I'm making a public recommendation because the book is a tremendous resource 
that has not been discussed much on the lists.  I found it very useful.

all the best, Don
-- 
Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code UW/Br Root 200  work 408.656.2149
              Monterey California 93943-5000 USA              fax  408.656.3679
Virtual worlds/underwater robots/Internet http://www.stl.nps.navy.mil/~brutzman

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 13 08:09:38 1996
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	id AA030582178; Wed, 13 Mar 1996 16:09:38 -0800
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 16:09:38 -0800 (PST)
From: washoe <washoe@ece.ucdavis.edu>
To: William Di Scipio <discipio@crl.com>
Cc: Per Mattsson <per@tip.net>, mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Get me of this list please.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960313103105.24436A-100000@crl.crl.com>
Message-Id: <Pine.HPP.3.91.960313160931.3053A-100000@mamba.ece.ucdavis.edu>
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Yes, me too.


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 13 20:39:38 1996
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	id AA00944; Wed, 13 Mar 96 20:39:38 GMT-0600
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 96 20:39:38 GMT-0600
From: jflores@sironmty.mty.itesm.mx (Ing. Jose Angel Flores Ceja)
Message-Id: <9603140239.AA00944@sironmty.mty.itesm.mx>
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I want to suscribe to the mbone discussion group

Suscribe mbone [jflores@sironmty.mty.itesm.mx]


tanks
j. A. Flores


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Mar 14 13:03:25 1996
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	id <AA26491>; Thu, 14 Mar 1996 03:04:40 -0800
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 12:03:25 +0100 (CET)
From: "Julian J. Bunn, CN Division, CERN, Geneva" <JULIAN@vxcern.cern.ch>
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Cc: JULIAN@vxcern.cern.ch
Message-Id: <960314120325.210016bb@vxcern.cern.ch>
Subject: FWD: vat and vic on Windows 95
Sender: owner-mbone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO


Hello,

  I have installed VAT4.0a6 and VIC2.7a37 on a PC running Windows 95 using VC++ 
version 4.0 and tk/tcl 4.1a2 and 7.5a2. I had to resolve the following problems
locally:

  1) audio_win32 : dprintf unresolved
  2) tkStripChart: xcleararea and xdrawsegments are not contained in tk4.1a2
  3) p64.h       : resetndblk needs to return an int

I also had to resolve blt and tk/tcl problems:

  1) vic.mak needs a define for bltutil.c to avoid duplicate strcasecmp from
     win32.c
  2) winMthErr not needed for VC++

I have the following problem. We start nv/vat sessions on a Sun sending to the
PC, where vic/vat are started thus:

  vat sunmed2/3456
  vic sunmed2/4444

On the Sun, the PC user appears in both vat and nv session lists, and some audio
from the PC gets through (although one has to be careful with the settings in vat 
on the PC if one uses a soundcard without full duplex audio capability ... we use
an SB16). But on the PC, the session lists just shows the local user, and no audio
or video seems to be received.

The test tones work OK on the PC, so there certainly seems to be audio function.
The vic window just displays the waiting for video message.

Has anyone any idea what might be wrong ? The PC and Sun are physically separated by
a couple of routers and bridges ...

Best regards,
 Julian Bunn 
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Julian James Bunn / CERN Computing and Networks Division. Tel.: +41 22 767 5029
Email: julian@vxcern.cern.ch                             CompuServe: 100327,317
WWW: http://128.141.239.100/jjb/jjb.html       PAW/PIAF Project & Data Analysis
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Mar 14 15:17:59 1996
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 13:17:59 +0200
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From: Petri Helenius <pete@sms.fi>
To: "Julian J. Bunn, CN Division, CERN, Geneva" <JULIAN@vxcern.cern.ch>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: FWD: vat and vic on Windows 95
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Julian J. Bunn writes:
 > 
 > Hello,
 > 
 >   I have installed VAT4.0a6 and VIC2.7a37 on a PC running Windows 95 using VC++ 
 > version 4.0 and tk/tcl 4.1a2 and 7.5a2. I had to resolve the following problems
 > locally:
 > 
Are binaries of these available? I could give them test drive on our
local network.

Pete

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Mar 15 85:34:20 1996
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:34:20 +30000
From: Mike Macedonia <mmacedon@crcg.edu>
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To: Don Brutzman <brutzman@cs.nps.navy.mil>
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I agree with Don. Vinay did a fine job. I bought two copies for the office.
Got them at Computer Literacy.

- Mike

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| Michael R. Macedonia, Ph.D.  	| URL:   http://www.crcg.edu	|
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From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Mar 14 07:21:14 1996
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 12:21:14 -0500
To: "Julian J. Bunn, CN Division, CERN, Geneva" <JULIAN@vxcern.cern.ch>
From: John Brezak <brezak@apollo.hp.com>
Subject: Re: FWD: vat and vic on Windows 95
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU, vat@ee.lbl.gov
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At 12:03 PM 3/14/96 +0100, Julian J. Bunn, CN Division, CERN, Geneva wrote:
>
>Hello,
>
>  I have installed VAT4.0a6 and VIC2.7a37 on a PC running Windows 95 using
VC++ 
>version 4.0 and tk/tcl 4.1a2 and 7.5a2. I had to resolve the following problems
>locally:
>
>  1) audio_win32 : dprintf unresolved

This is fixed in a a patch that was just sent to the maintainers.

>  2) tkStripChart: xcleararea and xdrawsegments are not contained in tk4.1a2

Grab the win32X.c from vic. [ This is also fixed in the patches ]

>  3) p64.h       : resetndblk needs to return an int

Ditto.

>
>I also had to resolve blt and tk/tcl problems:
>
>  1) vic.mak needs a define for bltutil.c to avoid duplicate strcasecmp from
>     win32.c

There is a new blt.h included for vic that is for win32.

>  2) winMthErr not needed for VC++

I'll look at this.

>
>I have the following problem. We start nv/vat sessions on a Sun sending to the
>PC, where vic/vat are started thus:
>
>  vat sunmed2/3456
>  vic sunmed2/4444
>
>On the Sun, the PC user appears in both vat and nv session lists, and some
audio
>from the PC gets through (although one has to be careful with the settings
in vat 
>on the PC if one uses a soundcard without full duplex audio capability ...
we use
>an SB16). But on the PC, the session lists just shows the local user, and
no audio
>or video seems to be received.

The win95 TCP/IP doesn't support the sockopt for turning off mcast loopback.
I've added filtering to the net path to deal with this. This patch has been 
sent in.

Another thing is that vat send isn't working yet (your mileage may vary).

>
>The test tones work OK on the PC, so there certainly seems to be audio
function.
>The vic window just displays the waiting for video message.

Some folks have reported problems with non-mcast addresses. Also if you are
sending nv format video be sure to start vic with the "-A nv" argument.

>
>Has anyone any idea what might be wrong ? The PC and Sun are physically
separated by
>a couple of routers and bridges ...
>
>Best regards,
> Julian Bunn 
>-- 
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Julian James Bunn / CERN Computing and Networks Division. Tel.: +41 22 767 5029
>Email: julian@vxcern.cern.ch                             CompuServe: 100327,317
>WWW: http://128.141.239.100/jjb/jjb.html       PAW/PIAF Project & Data Analysis
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Mar 16 00:35:42 1996
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From: George Michaelson <ggm@connect.com.au>
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To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: PSTN integration of internet telephony
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Apart from the H320/H261 stuff which would be a more restricted form
of interconnect, is anybody in the MBONE community in a position to
talk about how products are emerging which meet regulatory and other
approval to connect to the PSTN both ways?

	signalling systems conformance
	QDU levels
	billing issues
	CLI

We're getting a dribble of "almost news" stories  on paper and radio
about the various "call USA by internet" ideas people float. As far
as I can tell 99% of these are either illegal, or else very restricted
use of PC-to-PC and in no sense re-injecting calls into the PSTN in
either country. However with acceptable compression levels on long-distance
lines now better than 4:1 and with the quality of audio-in-IP one would
expect that some level of integration is on the drawing board, somewhere
in a lab.

Anybody able to come clean?

-George

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Mar 15 05:51:54 1996
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In the following you will find the Call for Papers for The Third
International Symposium on Autonomous Decentralized Systems (ISADS 97).

             *******  APOLOGIES FOR ANY DUPLICATE  *******
_____________________________________________________________________________

                         *********************
                         *  CALL FOR PAPERS  *
                         *********************

                                ISADS 97
    The Third International Symposium on Autonomous Decentralized Systems

                           April 9 - 11, 1997
                             Berlin, Germany


Sponsored by:        IEEE Computer Society
                     Information Processing Society of Japan
                     The Society of Instrument and Control Engineers of Japan

In Cooperation with: International Federation for Information Processing
                     International Federation of Automatic Control
                     Gesellschaft fuer Informatik


Scope
======
Driven by the increasing power, intelligence, reliability, and openness of
computer, communication and control technologies, a new generation of
distributed systems is emerging, that will be able to support distributed
business and control applications with extreme efficiency, reliability and
security requirements.  Such systems are expected to consist of largely
autonomous, decentralized and geographically dispersed components
interacting via communication networks, and are thus called Autonomous
Decentralized Systems (ADS).

After the successful first and second International Symposium on Autonomous
Decentralized Systems (ISADS) held in 1993 in Japan and in 1995 in the USA,
the third ISADS will be held in Berlin, Germany, on April 9 - 11, 1997.
ISADS 97 will primarily focus on advancements and innovations in ADS
platforms and applications. Integration of telecommunication and computing
aspects into a uniform concept for providing an open distributed processing
environment is a key factor.

ISADS invites papers and panel proposals on the topic of the symposium that
will foster interactions among researchers and practitioners in computer,
(tele)communication, management, control and other related fields from
academia, industry and government. The scope of ADS encompasses but is not
limited to:

- Telecommunication information networking architecture / Intelligent
  networks / Internet;
- Distributed system development and maintainance;
- Distributed control and its supporting platforms;
- Object management architecture / Design patterns / Application frameworks;
- Platform and application interoperability;
- Reference models for ADS;
- Computer-supported cooperative work / Virtual enterprise;
- Legacy system integration;
- Novel applications of ADS: manufacturing systems, realtime environments,
  office automation, traffic and transportation control, electronic commerce,
  etc.


Information for Authors
=======================
Send 6 copies of an original (not submitted or published elsewhere) full
paper (12 point, double-spaced) with 3000 - 6000 words - in paper form only
- to the address given below.
Papers should include: title, authors, affiliations, 150-word abstract and
list of keywords.
Identify the author responsible for correspondence, including the author's
name, position, mailing address, telephone and fax numbers, and email
address.
One of the authors of each accepted paper must present the paper at ISADS 97.


Information for Panel Organizers
=================================
Send 6 copies of panel proposals - in paper form only - to the address
given below.
Panel proposals should include: title, organizer's affiliations, position,
mailing address, telephone and fax numbers, email address, and 150-word
scope statement, proposed chair and panelists.


Submission Address
===================

         Juergen Nehmer
         ISADS 97 Program Chair
         Universitaet Kaiserslautern
         Fachbereich Informatik
         Postfach 3049
         D-67653 Kaiserslautern
         GERMANY

         Email: nehmer@informatik.uni-kl.de
         Phone: +49-631-205-4020
         Fax:   +49-631-205-3558.


General Information
====================
For program information contact the Program Chair above.
For additional information see World-Wide Web:

           http://www.fokus.gmd.de/ws/isads97/
           -----------------------------------

or return the 'Expression of Interest in ISADS 97' appended below.

The proceedings of the symposium will be published by IEEE Computer Society
Press.


Important Deadlines
====================
- July 15, 1996: All paper and panel proposals due.
- October 1, 1996: Panel proposals and authors notified of acceptance.
- December 2, 1996: Camera-ready copies of accepted papers and panelists'
  position papers due.


Support
=======
ISADS 97 is supported by: Hitachi, DeTeBerkom, NEC, Digital, GMD-FOKUS,
                          Hewlett Packard, IBM

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

General Chair
=============
Radu Popescu-Zeletin, GMD-FOKUS/T.U. Berlin, Germany
Fax: +49-30-25499-202
Email: zeletin@fokus.gmd.de

Program Committee
==================
Chair: Juergen Nehmer, U. Kaiserslautern, Germany
Vice-Chair: Richard Soley, OMG, USA
Vice-Chair: Yuji Inoue, NTT, Japan

Ricardo Baeza-Yates, U. de Chile, Chile
Farokh B. Bastani, U. of Houston, USA
Hendrik Berndt, Global One, USA
Sujeet Chand, Rockwell Int. Corp., USA
Jung W. Cho, KAIST, Korea
Partha Dasgupta, Arizona State U., USA
Domenico Ferrari, U. Cattolica, Piacenza, Italy
Hiroyuki Fujita, Tokyo U., Japan
Michel Gien, Chorus Systems, France
Deb Guha, TINA-C, USA
Chris Horn, IONA, Ireland
V. Jagannathan, West Virginia U., USA
Charles Jung, IBM, USA
Tohru Kikuno, Osaka U., Japan
Kane Kim, UC Irvine, USA
Shinzo Kitamura, Kobe U., Japan
Hermann Kopetz, T.U. Vienna, Austria
Chi T. R. Lai, Int. Softw. Process Const., USA
Guy Leduc, U. de Liege, Belgium
Jeffrey N. Magee, Imperial College, UK
Bernd Mahr, T.U. Berlin, Germany
Manuel d. J. Mendes, Pont. U. Catolica, Brasil
Kinji Mori, Hitachi, Japan
Max Muehlhaeuser, U. of Linz, Austria
C. V. Ramamoorthy, UC Berkeley, USA
Gerd Schuermann, GMD-FOKUS, Germany
Norio Shiratori, Tohoku U., Japan
Ralf Steinmetz, T.U. Darmstadt, Germany
Liba Svobodova, IBM Research, Switzerland
Makoto Takizawa, Tokyo Denki U., Japan
Ahmed Tantawy, IBM Research, USA
Volker Tschammer, GMD-FOKUS, Germany
Paulo Verissimo, F.C.U.L, Portugal
Feng-Jian Wang, Nat. Chiao-Tung U., Taiwan
Roberto Zicari, U. of Frankfurt, Germany

Operations Committee
=====================
Barbara Intelmann, GMD-FOKUS, Germany
Katsumi Kawano, Hitachi, Japan
Eckhard Moeller, GMD-FOKUS, Germany
Eric Mordoh, IKV, Germany
Volker Tschammer, GMD-FOKUS, Germany

Advisory Committee
===================
Juergen Kanzow, DeTeBerkom, Germany
Nobuhiko Koike, NEC, Germany

____________________________________________

Steering Committee
===================
Chair: Stephen S. Yau, Arizona State U., USA (IEEE)
Yoshikazu Nishikawa, Kyoto U., Japan (SICE)
Masanori Ozeki, RTRI, Japan (IPSJ)




------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                   *Expression of Interest in ISADS 97*

Yes, I am interested in ISADS 97.


Name (including title):
Affiliation:
Address:
Phone:
Fax:
Email:



[ ]  I would like to receive further information about ISADS 97. 
     Please put me on your mailing list.

[ ]  I intend to submit a full paper to ISADS 97.

     - Provisional title:


     - Provisional list of authors:


     - Presented by:



Please indicate and return to

          Email: isads97@fokus.gmd.de
          ---------------------------

          or to

          ISADS 97
          GMD-FOKUS
          Hardenbergplatz 2
          D-10623 Berlin
          GERMANY

          Phone: +49-30-25499-309/200
          Fax:   +49-30-25499-202.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Mar 16 17:50:23 1996
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Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 15:50:23 +0200
Message-Id: <199603161350.PAA06161@silver.sms.fi>
From: Petri Helenius <pete@sms.fi>
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: ntp group
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  There seems to be different time sources feeding into the NTP group:
xntpdc> peer
     remote           local      st poll reach  delay   offset    disp
=======================================================================
*rackety.udel.ed 0.0.0.0          1   64  376 0.00000 -0.307535 0.02838
~merganser.cl.ca 0.0.0.0          1   64  376 0.00000  0.145574 0.05470
~thebrain.noc.in 0.0.0.0          2 1024    0 0.34538 -184.2431 16.0000

...which of two are off by three minutes from the real-world time
(the two above).

Pete

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Mar 16 16:30:46 1996
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To: Petri Helenius <pete@sms.fi>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ntp group 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Sat, 16 Mar 1996 15:50:23 +0200.
             <199603161350.PAA06161@silver.sms.fi> 
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 16:30:46 +0000
From: Piete Brooks <Piete.Brooks@cl.cam.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <E0txysR-0005Fu-00@heaton.cl.cam.ac.uk>
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>   There seems to be different time sources feeding into the NTP group:

That is the objective -- the more time sources the are, the better the time
NTP can deduce ...

> xntpdc> peer
>      remote           local      st poll reach  delay   offset    disp
> =======================================================================
> *rackety.udel.ed 0.0.0.0          1   64  376 0.00000 -0.307535 0.02838
> ~merganser.cl.ca 0.0.0.0          1   64  376 0.00000  0.145574 0.05470
> ~thebrain.noc.in 0.0.0.0          2 1024    0 0.34538 -184.2431 16.0000
> ...which of two are off by three minutes from the real-world time
> (the two above).

As I read that, the two active clocks agree within half a second (not bad
if you know how the code works !).
The dead (reach = 0, disp = 16) high stratum (st = 2) unused (poll = 1024)
clock is just plain wrong.

Fear not -- NTP has no problem -- it has decided which to use !


[[ PS: which NTP code are you running ? "delay = 0" looks wrong to me ! ]]

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Mar 16 21:20:36 1996
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From: Petri Helenius <pete@sms.fi>
To: Piete Brooks <Piete.Brooks@cl.cam.ac.uk>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ntp group 
In-Reply-To: <E0txysR-0005Fu-00@heaton.cl.cam.ac.uk>
References: <199603161350.PAA06161@silver.sms.fi>
	<E0txysR-0005Fu-00@heaton.cl.cam.ac.uk>
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Piete Brooks writes:
 > >   There seems to be different time sources feeding into the NTP group:
 > 
 > That is the objective -- the more time sources the are, the better the time
 > NTP can deduce ...
 > 
 > > xntpdc> peer
 > >      remote           local      st poll reach  delay   offset    disp
 > > =======================================================================
 > > *rackety.udel.ed 0.0.0.0          1   64  376 0.00000 -0.307535 0.02838
 > > ~merganser.cl.ca 0.0.0.0          1   64  376 0.00000  0.145574 0.05470
 > > ~thebrain.noc.in 0.0.0.0          2 1024    0 0.34538 -184.2431 16.0000
 > > ...which of two are off by three minutes from the real-world time
 > > (the two above).
 > 
 > As I read that, the two active clocks agree within half a second (not bad
 > if you know how the code works !).
 > The dead (reach = 0, disp = 16) high stratum (st = 2) unused (poll = 1024)
 > clock is just plain wrong.
 >
The problem above is that NTP is getting reset every five minutes or so
since two of the above (rackety and merganser) are feeding bullshit-
clocks that are three minutes off the real time. thebrain is trying to
compete. I find it discusting to feed incorrect stratum-1 information
into MBone. That's why I sent my mail.

 > Fear not -- NTP has no problem -- it has decided which to use !
 > 
 > [[ PS: which NTP code are you running ? "delay = 0" looks wrong to me ! ]]

The problem is the resets caused by two machines having their clocks wrong.
If you can, check the clock on merganser and rackety.

Pete

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Mar 16 17:55:07 1996
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To: Petri Helenius <pete@sms.fi>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ntp group 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Sat, 16 Mar 1996 19:20:36 +0200.
             <199603161720.TAA06443@silver.sms.fi> 
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 17:55:07 +0000
From: Piete Brooks <Piete.Brooks@cl.cam.ac.uk>
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> The problem above is that NTP is getting reset every five minutes or so
> since two of the above (rackety and merganser) are feeding bullshit-
> clocks that are three minutes off the real time.

I would be suprised if rackety were 3 mins out, knowing who runs it.
My driver for merganser compensates for a 4mS ramp in my S0 receiver,
and manages to get below 1mS.  I've done analysis of the scatter plot
against other S1s and found good V plots, so generally suspect I'm within 1mS.
I peer with 10 other S1s, and they register errors of the order of 10mS.

I would be exceedingly suprised if both rackety and merganser are both
"feeding clocks" which are out by 3 mins.
I would be suprised if the NTP packets were taking 3 mins to reach you !
In any case, your server should use the HACK "enter unicast mode at startup"
mode, which should get set the delay to the unicast delay at the time the
clock was first seen.

> thebrain is trying to compete.

It's an S2 -- I suspct I'd agree with NTP -- two S1s within half a second
are likley to be more reliable than one S2 ....

> I find it discusting to feed incorrect stratum-1 information into MBone.

I'd take care before flaming the managers of those clocks .....
You might hurt our feelings !! :-(

> That's why I sent my mail.

I suggest we take this off the MBone list, and correspond privately ....

>> [[ PS: which NTP code are you running ? "delay = 0" looks wrong to me ! ]]
> The problem is the resets caused by two machines having their clocks wrong.

That should not reset delay on the running clocks.
You didn't answer about which code you are running ...

> If you can, check the clock on merganser and rackety.

As above, merganser is within 10s of mS's of 10 other S1s.
rackety only has 4 S1 peers, but it does have 3 S0s and I trust its manager
and the diversity it has.

I've kicked woodcock in as well -- what does it show ?

[[ PS: what is your server address, so that I can look at it ? ]]

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Mar 16 18:02:16 1996
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To: Petri Helenius <pete@sms.fi>
Cc: Piete Brooks <Piete.Brooks@cl.cam.ac.uk>, mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ntp group 
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Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 18:02:16 +0000
From: Ajit Thyagarajan <ajit@louie.udel.edu>
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Petri,

> xntpdc> peer
>      remote           local      st poll reach  delay   offset    disp
> =======================================================================
> *rackety.udel.ed 0.0.0.0          1   64  376 0.00000 -0.307535 0.02838
> ~merganser.cl.ca 0.0.0.0          1   64  376 0.00000  0.145574 0.05470
> ~thebrain.noc.in 0.0.0.0          2 1024    0 0.34538 -184.2431 16.0000
> ...which of two are off by three minutes from the real-world time
> (the two above).

How did you arrive at the 3 minute figure?  That information does not
seem to be present in the above table!  Pete Brooks was right in his
analysis of "thebrain" being dead since the reachability & status
indicate that there is not even a pipsqueak from that machine.  It
looks like the offset of your host is only 307 milliseconds
w.r.t. rackety, and merganser and rackety could be upto 500 ms off
w.r.t to each other from the above table.  However if you compare
rackety and merganser directly, you get the following

ntpq> host merganser.cl.cam.ac.uk
current host set to merganser.cl.cam.ac.uk
ntpq> pe
     remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay   offset  disp
==============================================================================
 woodcock.cl.cam .PPS.            1 m    4   64   77     0.00    0.000 16000.0
*MSF_EES(1)      .MSF1.           0 l    4   16  377     0.00   -1.895 11.81
 ATOM_PPS(0)     .PPS.            0 -   8d   16    0     0.00   26.212 16000.0
 NTP.MCAST.NET   0.0.0.0         16 -    -   64    0     0.00    0.000 16000.0
 rackety.udel.ed .PPS.            1 -   8d  512    0   180.01  -13.704 16000.0
xrackety.udel.ed .PPS.            1 m  120   64  374   191.76   70.094 34.01
                                                                ^^^^^^
The offset between rackety and merganser is 70 milliseconds in this
case.  Note that nptq uses ms in the offset field and xntpdc uses seconds.

>The problem above is that NTP is getting reset every five minutes or so
>since two of the above (rackety and merganser) are feeding bullshit-
>clocks that are three minutes off the real time. thebrain is trying to
>compete. I find it discusting to feed incorrect stratum-1 information
>into MBone. That's why I sent my mail.

It is possible that the behaviour you are seeing is a frequent
"stepping" of the clock on your local host.  This behaviour occurs
when the time obtained tends to wander a bit.  This has been observed
when you use only multicast to obtain time.

>The problem is the resets caused by two machines having their clocks wrong.
>If you can, check the clock on merganser and rackety.

The clocks on merganser and rackety are accurate to within a few
milliseconds if not better!  The table above for merganser shows that
it obtains its time from an MSF receiver with an offset as low as 1.8
ms.  Similarly, rackety indicates extremely good time with offsets
down in the microseconds regime.

Hope this helps,

Ajit

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Mar 16 23:07:47 1996
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Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 21:07:47 +0200
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From: Petri Helenius <pete@sms.fi>
To: ajit@ee.udel.edu
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ntp group 
In-Reply-To: <9603161802.aa28143@beauregard.udel.edu>
References: <199603161720.TAA06443@silver.sms.fi>
	<199603161350.PAA06161@silver.sms.fi>
	<E0txysR-0005Fu-00@heaton.cl.cam.ac.uk>
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Ajit Thyagarajan writes:
 > Petri,
 > 
 > How did you arrive at the 3 minute figure?  That information does not
 > seem to be present in the above table!  Pete Brooks was right in his
 > analysis of "thebrain" being dead since the reachability & status
 > indicate that there is not even a pipsqueak from that machine.  It
 > looks like the offset of your host is only 307 milliseconds
 > w.r.t. rackety, and merganser and rackety could be upto 500 ms off
 > w.r.t to each other from the above table.  However if you compare
 > rackety and merganser directly, you get the following
 >
I'm sorry for being too hasty on the conclusion, the picture was
upside down. My xntpd was resetting itself to thebrain which was
3 minutes off not because of rackety nor merganser. I was just
confused why it did that since thebrain is stratum 2 server.

Might be a bug in the xntpd itself?

 > The clocks on merganser and rackety are accurate to within a few
 > milliseconds if not better!  The table above for merganser shows that
 > it obtains its time from an MSF receiver with an offset as low as 1.8
 > ms.  Similarly, rackety indicates extremely good time with offsets
 > down in the microseconds regime.
 > 
So what should happen if somebody starts leaking a wrong timesource
into NTP mcast group? I think xntpd should not believe it with worse
stratum and it being the only one telling a different story...

Pete

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Mar 16 20:04:29 1996
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To: Petri Helenius <pete@sms.fi>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: ntp group 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Sat, 16 Mar 1996 21:07:47 +0200.
             <199603161907.VAA06626@silver.sms.fi> 
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 20:04:29 +0000
From: Piete Brooks <Piete.Brooks@cl.cam.ac.uk>
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> I'm sorry for being too hasty on the conclusion, the picture was
> upside down. My xntpd was resetting itself to thebrain

That's not what I saw -- the info you sent showed it locked on to the
two S1s which agreed with each other, and ignoring the "false ticker" S2.

> which was 3 minutes off not because of rackety nor merganser.

Sounds reasonable.

> I was just confused why it did that since thebrain is stratum 2 server.

Why it did what ? Latched on to the two S1s ?

> Might be a bug in the xntpd itself?

There could be bugs in xntpd, but you've not supplied any evidence yet.

> So what should happen if somebody starts leaking a wrong timesource
> into NTP mcast group?

It will be discarded as a false ticker.
That's why many sources are useful -- easier to spot false tickers.

> I think xntpd should not believe it

It won't !

> with worse stratum

Don't understand ...

By preference it won't use "worse" (higher) stratum clock.
But it doesn't use low stratum clocks regardless -- a number of S2s
can show an S1 to be a false ticker, and hence cause it to be ignored.

> and it being the only one telling a different story...

It will, and from what you sent, that was just what it did.
The one false ticker was duefully ignored.

[[ I think this should probably go offline ... ]]

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Mar 18 07:25:22 1996
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Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 12:25:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Chris Robson ATDNet Admin <crobson@dia.dia.mil>
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: BLT-1.9 help
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All

I'm trying to rebuild VIC and to do this you have to have BLT built.  
Thus my problem I get the following:


andy# set path=($path /usr/local/bin)
andy# make
making all in ./src
gcc -fwritable-strings -Wall -c -O 
-DBLT_LIBRARY=\"/usr/local/blt/lib/blt\" -I. -I/usr/local/include 
-I/usr/local/include  bltGraph.c
In file included from bltGraph.c:49:
bltGraph.h:400: parse error before `Tk_Cursor'
bltGraph.h:400: warning: no semicolon at end of struct or union
bltGraph.h:440: parse error before `}'
bltGraph.h:564: parse error before `TCL_VARARGS'
bltGraph.h:564: parse error before `specs'
bltGraph.h:564: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
bltGraph.c:96: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type
bltGraph.c:96: initializer element for `configSpecs.offset' is not constant
bltGraph.c:99: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type
bltGraph.c:99: initializer element for `configSpecs.offset' is not constant
bltGraph.c:102: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type

Any ideas to what I'm doing wrong?  Ran configure -with-gcc and get the 
following:

andy# configure -with-gcc
checking for install
checking for ranlib
checking how to run the C preprocessor
checking for ANSI C header files
checking for stdlib.h
checking for string.h
checking for float.h
checking for malloc.h
checking for errno.h
checking for unistd.h
checking for memory.h
checking for limits.h
checking for sys/time.h
checking for sys/wait.h
checking for whether time.h and sys/time.h may both be included
checking for strerror
checking for strdup
checking for strcasecmp
checking for size_t in sys/types.h
checking for union wait
checking if postscript prolog can be inlined
checking for X include and library files with xmkmf
checking for X include and library files directly
checking for -lXt
checking for tcl.h
checking for libtcl.a
checking for tk.h
checking for libtk.a
checking for -lXbsd
checking for -lsocket
checking for -lnsl
checking for -lieee
checking for -lm
checking for -ldl
checking how to make shared libraries
checking for uname
creating config.status
creating Makefile
creating src/Makefile
creating src/shared/Makefile
creating man/Makefile
creating library/Makefile
creating src/bltConfig.h
src/bltConfig.h is unchanged
 
Configuration results (edit and run ./config.status to modify):
 
directory containing "tcl.h"      => /usr/local/include
directory containing "tk.h"       => /usr/local/include
directory containing "X11/Xlib.h" => default
directory containing "libtcl.a"   => /usr/local/lib
directory containing "libtk.a"    => /usr/local/lib
directory containing "libX11.a"   => /usr/openwin/lib
directory to install "blt_wish"   => /usr/local/blt/bin
directory to install "libBLT.a"   => /usr/local/blt/lib
directory to install BLT library files => /usr/local/blt/lib/blt


Not sure what above is telling me since all the files are in the 
locations indicated.
The config.status output is:

andy# config.status
creating Makefile
creating src/Makefile
creating src/shared/Makefile
creating man/Makefile
creating library/Makefile
creating src/bltConfig.h
src/bltConfig.h is unchanged


I have built blt-1.7 and is installed on the same machine.  Is there a 
comflict such that I need to delete all the old blt stuff?


thanks for the help ...chris

 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 19 11:39:19 1996
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I have a question on the current multicast code version of the
following OSes which I'm not currently using:

	o Digital UNIX
	o HP-UX
	o AIX

There is mrouted binary for DU and HP-UX at parcftp, so there should be
an patch or they are already equipped with post3.5 code of multicast...
( mrouted3.8 for AIX is not available at parcftp... does that mean 
AIX's multicast code is still pre 3.5 ?)

Thank you in forwards.

Naohiro Shichijo
University of Tokyo

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Mar 18 19:49:44 1996
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Subject: Re: DigitalUNIX and HP-UX and AIX... 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 19 Mar 1996 02:39:19 +0900."
             <199603181739.CAA18170@berkeley.race.u-tokyo.ac.jp> 
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> I have a question on the current multicast code version of the
> following OSes which I'm not currently using:
> 
> 	o Digital UNIX
> 	o HP-UX
> 	o AIX
> 
> There is mrouted binary for DU and HP-UX at parcftp, so there should be
> an patch or they are already equipped with post3.5 code of multicast...
> ( mrouted3.8 for AIX is not available at parcftp... does that mean 
> AIX's multicast code is still pre 3.5 ?)

Well, HP holds on to the patch for some reason. Talk to your local HP dealer
and request them to provide you with the patch which has the filename
hp-ipm-905-35.tar.Z which is the one I got from HP and use with success.
There is a sligth diffrence from the mrouted 3.8 sources to make it compile
on a HP but if you don't need to compile it yourself you can just pick up the
binaries at parcftp.

Magnus



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Mar 18 18:20:57 1996
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Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 18:20:57 +0000
From: "Alan J. Flavell" <FLAVELL@v2.ph.gla.ac.uk>
Reply-To: A.Flavell@physics.gla.ac.uk
To: Naohiro Shichijo <shichi@berkeley.race.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: DigitalUNIX and HP-UX and AIX...
In-Reply-To: <199603181739.CAA18170@berkeley.race.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
Message-Id: <Pine.VMS.3.91-vms-b4.960318181609.48407A-100000@v2.ph.gla.ac.uk>
Organization: Glasgow University Particle Physics Group
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On Tue, 19 Mar 1996, Naohiro Shichijo wrote:

> I have a question on the current multicast code version of the
> following OSes which I'm not currently using:
>=20
> =09o Digital UNIX
> =09o HP-UX
> =09o AIX
>=20
> There is mrouted binary for DU and HP-UX at parcftp, so there should be
> an patch or they are already equipped with post3.5 code of multicast...

I recently started running mrouted 3.8 with the 3.5 multicast mods
installed into OSF/1 v3.2.

From=20what I've heard, it also works OK up to Digital Unix 3.2c, but
I was told that 3.2d breaks it.  I'm not sure whether there is a fix.

I was told that Digital Unix 4 will be coming fairly soon, and
will not require kernel mods for running a pruning mrouted.

As I'm only doing this small-time I guess there are people on
this list who know more about it than me, but maybe this helps.

best regards


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Mar 18 09:45:58 1996
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From: Ajay Kachrani USG <ajay@zk3.dec.com>
Message-Id: <9603181945.AA18946@falpha.zk3.dec.com>
Subject: Re: DigitalUNIX and HP-UX and AIX...
To: A.Flavell@physics.gla.ac.uk
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 14:45:58 -0500 (EST)
Cc: shichi@berkeley.race.u-tokyo.ac.jp, mbone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.VMS.3.91-vms-b4.960318181609.48407A-100000@v2.ph.gla.ac.uk> from "Alan J. Flavell" at Mar 18, 96 06:20:57 pm
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> 
> On Tue, 19 Mar 1996, Naohiro Shichijo wrote:
> 
> From=20what I've heard, it also works OK up to Digital Unix 3.2c, but
> I was told that 3.2d breaks it.  I'm not sure whether there is a fix.
> 
If you put a ipm35 patch for Digital UNIX after upgrading to 3.2d, then
it will work fine. If you already running 3.2c w/ ipm35 patches -- and
then if you upgraded to 3.2d breaks -- since 3.2d overwrite the route.o
kernel module.

Workaround is to do remove_ipm and then add_ipm (scripts provided with kit)
will fix this problem.

The Multiast 3.5 patches are included in Digtial UNIX 4.0 -- so you'll
no longer need patches to run IP Multicast on Digital UNIX V4.0+ (as far
as the kernel patch level remain at 3.5!). 

--Ajay
ps: Also, note that we've found problem w/ ip_mroute.o module in the kit.
Many sites got the patch and i need to re-release the kit w/ patch. However,
if you're running ipm35 patch on Digital Unix w/o patch, send me mail and
i'll forward you one.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Mar 18 11:36:07 1996
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Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 16:36:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Chris Spinolo <spig@gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Get me of this list please.
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19960313162153.00949440@mailbox.tip.net>
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me too. the listserver says I'm not on it.
can someone get me off the list? (i tried both mbone and mbone-na)

Thanks!
chris

On Wed, 13 Mar 1996, Per Mattsson wrote:

> 
> If i ask the listserver i am not on the list, but i still get mail.
> Can this be stopped.
> 
> Thank you.
> Per
> 
> 

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
%finger spig@lanman.gsfc.nasa.gov
Login name: spig                        In real life: Chris Spinolo
Mailstop: Code 543, Greenbelt ,MD 20771                301-286-7552
On since June 3, 1985 on ttyC1
Plan:
I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection....
Philippians 3:10
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Mar 18 08:41:58 1996
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To: Chris Robson ATDNet Admin <crobson@dia.dia.mil>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: BLT-1.9 help
In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 18 Mar 96 12:25:22 EST.
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 96 16:41:58 PST
From: Van Jacobson <van@ee.lbl.gov>
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From the error messages, it looks like you have the wrong
Status: RO

version of tk installed.  The blt-1.9 readme says:

    This version of BLT works with the following tcl/tk versions ONLY:
	tcl 7.4 / tk 4.0 (any patchlevel)
	tcl 7.5a2 / tk4.1a2

All tk4.x versions put their version number on the library
(e.g., libtk4.0.a) so if configure found libtk.a, it &
the stuff in /usr/local/include/tk.h is probably tk3.x
vintage.  You need to upgrade tcl/tk or at least put the
4.x versions in your source tree and point configure at
them when doing the blt & vic builds.

 - Van

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 20 81:56:17 1996
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From: Mike Macedonia <mmacedon@crcg.edu>
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To: rem-conf@es.net
Cc: cu-seeme-l@cornell.edu, mbone@ISI.EDU, videophone@es.net
Subject: MCI to offer video services over the Internet
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MCI says in a news article that it will include videoconferencing as 
part of its new Internet services.

Does anyone have any details? Does this mean multicast?

-----------------------------------------------------------------
| Michael R. Macedonia, Ph.D.  	| URL:   http://www.crcg.edu	|
| Vice President		| EMAIL: mmacedon@crcg.edu	|
| Fraunhofer CRCG 		|				|
| 167 Angell Street 		| PH :   (+1) 401 453-6363	|
| Providence, RI 02906		| FAX:   (+1) 401 453-0444	|
-----------------------------------------------------------------
					


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 19 03:14:09 1996
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From: mbenson@davinci.gmu.edu (Michael Benson)
Message-Id: <199603191314.IAA07024@davinci.gmu.edu>
Subject: Re: MCI to offer video services over the Internet
To: mmacedon@crcg.edu (Mike Macedonia)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 08:14:09 -0500 (EST)
Cc: rem-conf@es.net, cu-seeme-l@cornell.edu, mbone@ISI.EDU, videophone@es.net
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SGI.3.90.960319055314.29619C-100000@condor> from "Mike Macedonia" at Mar 19, 96 05:56:17 am
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Where was this news article?  Usually it is possible to call the author
for complete information that did not appear in the article.

Michael
> 
> 
> MCI says in a news article that it will include videoconferencing as 
> part of its new Internet services.
> 
> Does anyone have any details? Does this mean multicast?
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> | Michael R. Macedonia, Ph.D.  	| URL:   http://www.crcg.edu	|
> | Vice President		| EMAIL: mmacedon@crcg.edu	|
> | Fraunhofer CRCG 		|				|
> | 167 Angell Street 		| PH :   (+1) 401 453-6363	|
> | Providence, RI 02906		| FAX:   (+1) 401 453-0444	|
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> 					
> 


-- 
Michael Benson
Computer science graduating student of George Mason University
WWW:    http://cne.gmu.edu/~mbenson
Email:  mbenson@gmu.edu          Whois: whois -h gmu.edu mbenson 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 19 03:32:36 1996
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To: Mike Macedonia <mmacedon@crcg.edu>
Cc: rem-conf@es.net, cu-seeme-l@cornell.edu, mbone@ISI.EDU, videophone@es.net
Subject: Re: MCI to offer video services over the Internet 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 19 Mar 1996 05:56:17."
             <Pine.SGI.3.90.960319055314.29619C-100000@condor> 
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 08:32:36 -0500
From: "Jeff Young" <young@mci.net>
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i don't honestly know.  where did you see the press release?
no one has approached us about using the multicast backbone
for videoconferencing...

Jeff Young
young@mci.net


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> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 05:56:17 +30000
> From: Mike Macedonia <mmacedon@crcg.edu>
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> To: rem-conf@es.net
> Cc: cu-seeme-l@cornell.edu, mbone@ISI.EDU, videophone@es.net
> Subject: MCI to offer video services over the Internet
> In-Reply-To: <199603190732.XAA27870@ix2.ix.netcom.com>
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> 
> 
> MCI says in a news article that it will include videoconferencing as 
> part of its new Internet services.
> 
> Does anyone have any details? Does this mean multicast?
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> | Michael R. Macedonia, Ph.D.  	| URL:   http://www.crcg.edu	|
> | Vice President		| EMAIL: mmacedon@crcg.edu	|
> | Fraunhofer CRCG 		|				|
> | 167 Angell Street 		| PH :   (+1) 401 453-6363	|
> | Providence, RI 02906		| FAX:   (+1) 401 453-0444	|
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> 					
> 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 19 04:39:05 1996
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Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 09:39:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Mike Macedonia <mmacedon@crcg.edu>
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To: Jeff Young <young@mci.net>
Cc: rem-conf@es.net, mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: MCI to offer video services over the Internet 
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Jeff,

See http://www.mci.com/virtual/news-news/top-headline-827152577.html

From the release:
Status: RO

MCI also announced it has formed an advanced applications unit to focus on
developing emerging Internet applications for its customers. The new unit
will report to Fred Briggs, MCI's chief engineering officer, and Vint
Cerf, MCI's senior vice president of data architecture. A few of the
technologies under development include the use of direct broadcast
satellite for high-speed Internet connectivity, ** videoconferencing over the
Internet **, shared applications, multi-media messaging and advanced
security. 


-----------------------------------------------------------------
| Michael R. Macedonia, Ph.D.  	| URL:   http://www.crcg.edu	|
| Vice President		| EMAIL: mmacedon@crcg.edu	|
| Fraunhofer CRCG 		|				|
| 167 Angell Street 		| PH :   (+1) 401 453-6363	|
| Providence, RI 02906		| FAX:   (+1) 401 453-0444	|
-----------------------------------------------------------------
					

On Tue, 19 Mar 1996, Jeff Young wrote:

> i don't honestly know.  where did you see the press release?
> no one has approached us about using the multicast backbone
> for videoconferencing...
> 
> Jeff Young
> young@mci.net
> 
> 
> > Return-Path: majordom@ISI.EDU
> > Received: from zephyr.isi.edu (zephyr.isi.edu [128.9.160.160]) by postoffice.reston.mci.net (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA24552; Tue, 19 Mar 1996 06:47:24 -0500
> > Received: by zephyr.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-20)
> > 	id <AA03654>; Tue, 19 Mar 1996 03:26:15 -0800
> > Received: from venera.isi.edu by zephyr.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-20)
> > 	id <AA03648>; Tue, 19 Mar 1996 03:26:14 -0800
> > Received: from zephyr.isi.edu by venera.isi.edu (5.65c/5.61+local-22)
> > 	id <AA21303>; Tue, 19 Mar 1996 03:26:13 -0800
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> > 	id <AA21285>; Tue, 19 Mar 1996 03:25:23 -0800
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> > 	id AA26303; Tue, 19 Mar 96 06:25:27 EST
> > Received: by condor.crcg.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/SMI-4.0)
> > 	id FAA29715; Tue, 19 Mar 1996 05:56:17 -0500
> > Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 05:56:17 +30000
> > From: Mike Macedonia <mmacedon@crcg.edu>
> > X-Sender: mmacedon@condor
> > To: rem-conf@es.net
> > Cc: cu-seeme-l@cornell.edu, mbone@ISI.EDU, videophone@es.net
> > Subject: MCI to offer video services over the Internet
> > In-Reply-To: <199603190732.XAA27870@ix2.ix.netcom.com>
> > Message-Id: <Pine.SGI.3.90.960319055314.29619C-100000@condor>
> > Mime-Version: 1.0
> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> > Sender: owner-mbone-na@ISI.EDU
> > Precedence: bulk
> > 
> > 
> > MCI says in a news article that it will include videoconferencing as 
> > part of its new Internet services.
> > 
> > Does anyone have any details? Does this mean multicast?
> > 
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > | Michael R. Macedonia, Ph.D.  	| URL:   http://www.crcg.edu	|
> > | Vice President		| EMAIL: mmacedon@crcg.edu	|
> > | Fraunhofer CRCG 		|				|
> > | 167 Angell Street 		| PH :   (+1) 401 453-6363	|
> > | Providence, RI 02906		| FAX:   (+1) 401 453-0444	|
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > 					
> > 
> 
> 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 19 15:24:06 1996
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To: Mike Macedonia <mmacedon@crcg.edu>
Cc: Jeff Young <young@mci.net>, rem-conf@es.net, mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: MCI to offer video services over the Internet
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 19 Mar 96 09:39:05 EST." <Pine.SUN.3.91.960319092936.26991A-100000@elaine>
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 96 15:24:06 +0000
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From: Jon Crowcroft <J.Crowcroft@cs.ucl.ac.uk>
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 >satellite for high-speed Internet connectivity, ** videoconferencing over the
 >Internet **, shared applications, multi-media messaging and advanced
 >security. 

so thats ok then

i assume MCI will now lean on the fellow mambers of ACTA to withdraw
their absurd (absurd because it is unenforceable, and meaningless) petition
to the FCC..... :-)

otherwise i can see myself as able to run voice over PSTN and IP over
PSTN but not voice over IP over PSTN, which is looking a pretty
atractive combination with some of the new modems and compression
algorithms and PC performance to run them! (e.g.  a 28kbps modem with
a 14kbpsa voice channel leaves 14kbps for my email and so on...)


i spose voice over IP over fax is out of the question:-)

cheers
jon

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 19 06:05:41 1996
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Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 11:05:41 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Bogard <jimbo@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu>
To: mbone <mbone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: video capture board for SGI indigo
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Anybody got any recommendations?  Compatability with mbone and ease of 
installation are the key considerations...

Thanks.

J-.
----
Jim Bogard  JHU/APL BIX Group             "This is my banjo.  There are many
Backbone Network Engineer                   like it, but this one is mine."



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 19 11:08:50 1996
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To: Jon Crowcroft <J.Crowcroft@cs.ucl.ac.uk>
Cc: Mike Macedonia <mmacedon@crcg.edu>, Jeff Young <young@mci.net>,
        rem-conf@es.net, mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: MCI to offer video services over the Internet 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 19 Mar 1996 15:24:06 GMT."
             <2931.827249046@cs.ucl.ac.uk> 
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On Tue, 19 Mar 1996 15:24:06 GMT, Jon Crowcroft said:
> i spose voice over IP over fax is out of the question:-)

See RFC 1149.  Also, I believe there was a draft RFC for IP encapsulation
inside RFC822, but implementors of this should read RFC1326.
-- 
				Valdis Kletnieks
				Computer Systems Engineer
				Virginia Tech



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 19 05:43:33 1996
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> From rem-conf-request@es.net Tue Mar 19 11:35:24 1996
> Subject: Re: MCI to offer video services over the Internet
> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 96 15:24:06 +0000
> From: Jon Crowcroft <J.Crowcroft@cs.ucl.ac.uk>
> 
>  >satellite for high-speed Internet connectivity, ** videoconferencing over the
>  >Internet **, shared applications, multi-media messaging and advanced
>  >security. 

Hmm. Doing telephony over satellite - seems like one or two such
hops and you're dead, given that the latency will creep over 1/2 second.

High-speed still isn't low latency.

Joe
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Touch - touch@isi.edu		    http://www.isi.edu/~touch/
ISI / Project Leader, ATOMIC-2, LSAM       http://www.isi.edu/atomic2/
USC / Research Assistant Prof.                http://www.isi.edu/lsam/

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In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 19 Mar 1996 13:43:33 PST."
             <199603192143.AA07496@ash-s.isi.edu> 
From: Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu
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On Tue, 19 Mar 1996 13:43:33 PST, touch@ISI.EDU said:
> Hmm. Doing telephony over satellite - seems like one or two such
> hops and you're dead, given that the latency will creep over 1/2 second.

Hmm.. I must have blinked here and missed a sarcasm alert.  Wasn't the original
reason for geosyncronous satellites to provide long distance telephone service?

Remember.. 0.5 seconds latency may be an eternity for silicon-based life, but
for us carbon-based critters, it's still a blink of an eye...
-- 
				Valdis Kletnieks
				Computer Systems Engineer
				Virginia Tech



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 19 14:56:04 1996
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From: Ahmed A-G Helmy <ahelmy@catarina.usc.edu>
To: Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu
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> > Hmm. Doing telephony over satellite - seems like one or two such
> > hops and you're dead, given that the latency will creep over 1/2 second.
> 
> Hmm.. I must have blinked here and missed a sarcasm alert.  Wasn't the original
> reason for geosyncronous satellites to provide long distance telephone service?
> 
> Remember.. 0.5 seconds latency may be an eternity for silicon-based life, but
> for us carbon-based critters, it's still a blink of an eye...

Jitter (variance of delay), however, may render voice unintelligible.. !

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 19 21:01:59 1996
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In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 19 Mar 1996 22:56:04 PST."
             <Pine.SUN.3.91.960319225359.18831D-100000@excalibur.usc.edu> 
From: Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu
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On Tue, 19 Mar 1996 22:56:04 PST, Ahmed A-G Helmy said:
> Jitter (variance of delay), however, may render voice unintelligible.. !

Is *that* why I'm incoherent unless I've had the proper dosage of caffeine? ;)


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Mar 19 15:12:10 1996
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From: ken emery <ken@cnet.com>
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On Tue, 19 Mar 1996 Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote:

> On Tue, 19 Mar 1996 13:43:33 PST, touch@ISI.EDU said:
> > Hmm. Doing telephony over satellite - seems like one or two such
> > hops and you're dead, given that the latency will creep over 1/2 second.
> 
> Hmm.. I must have blinked here and missed a sarcasm alert.  Wasn't the 
> original reason for geosyncronous satellites to provide long distance 
> telephone service? 
> 
> Remember.. 0.5 seconds latency may be an eternity for silicon-based life, but
> for us carbon-based critters, it's still a blink of an eye...

Actually 0.5 seconds is about the point where us "carbon-based critters" 
can start to detect the echo/delay inherent in satalite hops.  Basically 
Bell labs found that if it was below 0.5 seconds the human ear could not 
detect the delay, over that and it was quite annoying (a friend of mine 
actually worked on this project at Bell Labs).  They also found that is 
satalite was used one way and land lines the other that it was more 
difficult to detect the echo (by the human :-)

bye,
ken emery


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 20 12:25:26 1996
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From: Petri Helenius <pete@sms.fi>
To: Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu
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Valdis Kletnieks writes:
 > On Tue, 19 Mar 1996 13:43:33 PST, touch@ISI.EDU said:
 > > Hmm. Doing telephony over satellite - seems like one or two such
 > > hops and you're dead, given that the latency will creep over 1/2 second.
 > 
 > Hmm.. I must have blinked here and missed a sarcasm alert.  Wasn't the original
 > reason for geosyncronous satellites to provide long distance telephone service?
 > 
 > Remember.. 0.5 seconds latency may be an eternity for silicon-based life, but
 > for us carbon-based critters, it's still a blink of an eye...

And for many of the 'multimedia'-applications jitter (delay variance)
and bandwidth are actually more important than the actual latency. Usually
low jitter comes with either intelligent queueing or high bandwidth. I would
also count low loss as one of the factors since I've yet to see data-
interleaving audio application ...

Pete

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 20 08:49:23 1996
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To: ken emery <ken@cnet.com>
Cc: rem-conf@es.net, mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: MCI to offer video services over the Internet
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 19 Mar 1996 23:12:10 PST." <Pine.SOL.3.91.960319230800.1834C-100000@scarface>
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 08:49:23 +0000
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From: Jon Crowcroft <J.Crowcroft@cs.ucl.ac.uk>
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 >On Tue, 19 Mar 1996 Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote:
 >
 >> On Tue, 19 Mar 1996 13:43:33 PST, touch@ISI.EDU said:
 >> > Hmm. Doing telephony over satellite - seems like one or two such
 >> > hops and you're dead, given that the latency will creep over 1/2 second.
 >> 
 >> Hmm.. I must have blinked here and missed a sarcasm alert.  Wasn't the 
 >> original reason for geosyncronous satellites to provide long distance 
 >> telephone service? 
 >> 
 >> Remember.. 0.5 seconds latency may be an eternity for silicon-based life, but
 >> for us carbon-based critters, it's still a blink of an eye...
 >
 >Actually 0.5 seconds is about the point where us "carbon-based critters" 
 >can start to detect the echo/delay inherent in satalite hops.  


this confuses 2 things
1/ there is a end to end delay 
limit (around 200msec) for the turnaroudn that makes
"natural conversation possible

2/ there is a delay loop limit (also around 200ms) around which it is impossible
to speak whilst hering one's OWN voice fed back 

 >Bell labs found that if it was below 0.5 seconds the human ear could not 
 >detect the delay, over that and it was quite annoying (a friend of mine 
 >actually worked on this project at Bell Labs).  They also found that is 
 >satalite was used one way and land lines the other that it was more 
 >difficult to detect the echo (by the human :-)

obviously a round trip time (for case 2) where the outbound is
satellite, and the return path terrestrial removes one of the two
1/4 sec  satellite hops - no mystery....and gets you down close (but
not quite close enough) to the 200 msec....it is still unpleasant to
use

on the subject of jitter....

so long as the jitter is a second order effect (as is likely with
satellite hops, unless your satellite is seriously out of geosynch -
e.g. LEO), then you can accomodate it easily with playout
buffers.....if the _mean_ delay varies (e.g. satellite slowly
drifts:-), you need an adaptive playout buffer....technology exists
for this, doesn't it :-) [this is the mbone list, right - have a look
at the vat code.....or half a dozen other pieces of internet phone
technology)

a lot of telephone engineers get confused coz they think in terms of
nets with non-work conserving switches, and "terminals" with a few
bits bufferingh (i.e. ISDN telephones) whereas WE (the real world:-)
use computers which tend to have enough memory to have a few minuites
of audio playout and enough processing to do things like varying the
silence gap lenghts  between talk spurts in real time, or even adding
pink noise between missing samples of talk spurt.....or even
interpolating the speech (given half of the compression algorithms are
based on a speech model, this is not really any more than an obvious
extrapolation of the compression scheme to do either
a) make up for loss
b) make up for delayed samples

going the other way (if the delay decreases rapidly - e.g. your
satellite is coming down to earth:-), can be tricky for heavily
comprewssed speech, but its doable....and easy for 64kbps PCM...


sorry to repeat all this gubbins again....




 jon


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 20 13:09:50 1996
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From: Petri Helenius <pete@sms.fi>
To: Jon Crowcroft <J.Crowcroft@cs.ucl.ac.uk>
Cc: ken emery <ken@cnet.com>, rem-conf@es.net, mbone@ISI.EDU
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Jon Crowcroft writes:
 > 
 > 2/ there is a delay loop limit (also around 200ms) around which it is impossible
 > to speak whilst hering one's OWN voice fed back 
 > 
 > obviously a round trip time (for case 2) where the outbound is
 > satellite, and the return path terrestrial removes one of the two
 > 1/4 sec  satellite hops - no mystery....and gets you down close (but
 > not quite close enough) to the 200 msec....it is still unpleasant to
 > use
 > 
 > on the subject of jitter....
 > 
Try mixing digital cellular phones with intercontinental satellite
telephone and then you are talking about delay loops and transmission
latency!

Pete

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Mar 21 05:47:51 1996
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From: gih@aarnet.edu.au (Geoff Huston)
Subject: Re: MCI to offer video services over the Internet
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For those folk such as myself who only got off satellite links about 3 years ago for
international telephony, 0.5 of a second (0.65 to be precise) is a huge problem -
not only do you have a very significant echo cancellation problem, which current
equipment still has not completely solved, the delay of 0.5 second makes
any useful interactive conversation close to impossible for us carbon-based
lifeforms in the antipodes. I recall a study which placed a threshold of some
0.15 - 0.2 second as the point at which people had to adjust speech to accomodate
for the delay, but I've completely forgotten the reference.

Thanks,

   geoff



At 4:29 AM 20/3/96, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote:
>On Tue, 19 Mar 1996 13:43:33 PST, touch@ISI.EDU said:
>> Hmm. Doing telephony over satellite - seems like one or two such
>> hops and you're dead, given that the latency will creep over 1/2 second.
>
>Hmm.. I must have blinked here and missed a sarcasm alert.  Wasn't the original
>reason for geosyncronous satellites to provide long distance telephone service?
>
>Remember.. 0.5 seconds latency may be an eternity for silicon-based life, but
>for us carbon-based critters, it's still a blink of an eye...
>-- 
>				Valdis Kletnieks
>				Computer Systems Engineer
>				Virginia Tech



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 20 01:38:48 1996
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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 06:38:48 -0500 (EST)
From: Jeff Pulver <jeff@Pulver.COM>
To: rem-conf@es.net, mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: ** Announcemnet ** -- VON Coalition Formed
Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960320063230.19891v-100000@enterprise.pulver.com>
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Hi,

For those of you who have been tracking ACTA's petition to the FCC to
ban Internet Telephony, I thought you might want to know that a coalition
has been formed with the immediate purpose and goal to persuade the FCC
NOT to act favorably upon the ACTA petition.

If you would like more information on the VON Coalition, please feel free
to visit http://www.von.org.  Your support would be appreciated.

A copy of the VON Coalition press release is attached below.


Jeff Pulver
VON Coalition
Chairman
http://www.von.org

###


                 COALITION FORMED IN RESPONSE TO
                    PHONE COMPANY ATTEMPTS
                  TO BLOCK INTERNET SERVICES

New York, NY, March 18/PRNewswire/ - The "Voice On the Net" (VON)
Coalition (http://www.von.org/) announces its formation in response to
recent phone company attempts to regulate Internet services.  The VON
Coalition is taking action to preserve the worldwide network as a place for
emerging technologies and business. Charter VON members include Internet
users, technology companies and others intent on keeping the Internet open
to all forms of electronic commerce, including voice transmission.

The issue of voice on the Internet has heated up in recent weeks.  New
technology advances have led to the availability of computer programs that
allow people to carry on real-time voice conversations over the Internet.
While Internet calls are not of the same high quality as those placed
through traditional long distance services, they offer some compelling
advantages.  For example, using this technology, school children in a rural
American community could easily and inexpensively communicate with a
scientist in London.  Their conversation could include video and drawings
along with interactive voice transmission.  A growing number of Internet
voice  products, including VocalTec Inc.'s (NASDAQ: VOCLF) Internet Phone and
Quarterdeck's (NASDAQ:QDEK) WebTalk, can be purchased today. Other
companies including Intel, Microsoft, and Netscape, have announced their
intent to produce similar products.

The Long Distance industry, however, is trying to stop this competition.
On March 4, ACTA, a trade association representing 130 of America's long
distance companies, filed a petition asking the FCC to block the sale and
use of such software products.  ACTA is further asking that the FCC step in
and begin regulating use of the Internet.

The VON Coalition, along with the majority of Internet users, vehemently
opposes such regulation. Public notice of the ACTA petition was issued on
March 8, 1996 by the FCC (Report No. 2124). Comments to the petition must
be submitted to the FCC by April 8, 1996. The VON Coalition will take a
lead role in opposing the ACTA filing.

"ACTA is, in effect, attempting to eliminate outside competition by banning
emerging technologies" says VON Coalition Chairman Jeff Pulver.  "The
immediate mission of the VON Coalition is to persuade the FCC to deny the
ACTA petition."

"The ACTA petition asks the FCC to 'define the type of permissible
communication which may be effected over the Internet'", says Elon Ganor,
Chairman & CEO of VocalTec, Inc. "This is the kind of regulation that the US
government and people have traditionaly criticized third world countries for."

"ACTA is asking that the FCC declare specific software companies as
'Telecom Carriers'", Ganor continues. "Microsoft and Netscape recently
announced audio and video strategies for the Internet. Does this mean they
are now telecom carriers? Where will we draw the line?"

Howard Gordon, President of Xing Technologies, makers of the Streamworks
audio and video streaming product, says his organization is strongly opposed
to any efforts which limit the ability of content providers to develop
alternative
distribution channels.

"While the ACTA filing directly targets 2-way communications, we expect it's
only a matter of time before similar efforts are directed against Internet
radio and television broadcasting", says Gordon.

According to VON Coalition member Takeshi Utsumi, Ph.D., Laureate of
the prestigious Lord Perry Award for Excellence in Distance Education, "The
U.S. data communication networks such as ARPANET, Telenet (now SprintNet),
and the Internet, have been unregulated since the early 1980s. The fact that
these networks were unregulated allowed the use of email to successfully
replace more expensive Telex communications."

Charter members of the VON Coalition include: VocalTec, Inc. (NASDAQ:
VOCLF), Voxware Inc. , VDONet Corproation, Jabra Corporation, FreeTel
Communications, Inc., The DSP Group (NASDAQ: DSPG), Insoft, White Pine
Software, Netspeak Corporation, Xing Technology Inc., IDT Corporation,
GLOSAS/USA and GU/USA, and Electric Magic Company.

Individuals and corporations interested joining the VON Coalition can visit
the VON  web site at http://www.von.org/. Anyone interested in submitting
individual comments to the FCC may do so by writing to:

        Federal Communications Commission
        1919 M Street
        Washington, DC 20554

All responses to the FCC should include a reference to Rulemaking No. 8775.
The FCC's website is http://www.fcc.gov.
                            -0-                              3/18/96
/CONTACT: Sandy Combs, Director, VON Coalition, 802-878-9884 or
<scombs@together.net>/




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 20 00:09:33 1996
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From: Richard Chycoski <richard@wizard.ucs.sfu.ca>
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 96 08:09:33 -0800
To: gih@aarnet.edu.au (Geoff Huston)
Subject: Re: MCI to offer video services over the Internet
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Reply-To: richard@sfu.ca
References: <v02130506ad761fa1996e@[139.130.25.53]>
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> From: gih@aarnet.edu.au (Geoff Huston)
> ...
> I recall a study which placed a threshold of some 0.15 - 0.2 second
> as the point at which people had to adjust speech to accomodate
> for the delay, but I've completely forgotten the reference.

The threshold of detection is under 100 milliseconds. This has dictated some  
of the parameters for ISDN and ATM. The 500 millisecond delay limit is more  
the threshold of "tolerance", since more than 500 milliseconds of echo of  
one's voice tends to confuse the speaker.

Neither of these is necessarily important in the delivery of "phone service"  
across the Internet. Intelligent muting or the use of push-to-talk can reduce  
or eliminate this problem, especially when the communications is  
computer-to-computer (rather than when interconnecting into the public  
telephone network).  How many people find the delay of "vat" to be a real  
problem when talking across the MBone?

Also, the availability of cheap long distance can significantly increase the  
"tolerance" of most ears... (:-)

- Richard Chycoski
  Senior Systems Consultant
  Academic Computing Services
  Simon Fraser University
  richard@sfu.ca

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 20 18:24:47 1996
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To: pete@sms.fi
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Delay and Loss on the Mbone
X-Mailer: exmh Version:Speedy 1.4 6/24/94
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 96 18:24:47 +0000
From: V.Hardman@cs.ucl.ac.uk
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Status: RO

Dear Pete,

THE reference for the perception of delay is:

Brady P.T. 'Effects of Transmission Delay on Conversational Behaviour on 
Echo-Free Telephone Circuits' Bell System Technical Journal, pp 115-134, 
January 1971

The perception depends upon whether echoes are present (such as might be 
produced by 2/4 wire hybrid tansformers, today commonly found at the junction 
between the exchange and the local subscriber) or not. So without echoes, 
400ms round-trip, with echoes considerably less.

People using Mbone audio don't suffer from echoes in the usual telephone sense 
of the word, and so tolerable delay can be much larger. 

The big problem with Mbone audio though is not delay or delay variance, but 
LOSS. Loss can render speech unintelligible for even low loss rates with the 
packet sizes used over the Mbone.

Here at UCL we have been trying to come up with methods of repairing the loss. 
We interleave a second low bandwidth version of the coded speech, so that loss 
can be repaired something reasonable. (This performs far better than any of 
the things you can do at the receiver, such as using noise, or the previous 
packet, or sample interpolation etc. etc.)

RAT (Robust-Audio Tool) is a new audio tool which uses redundancy to repair 
loss. It is available by ftp. It includes packet loss protection.

See
http://www-mice.cs.ucl.ac.uk/mice/rat/index.html

for details of where you can get hold of RAT binaries.

Regards

Vicky


------- Forwarded Message

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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 10:25:26 +0200
Message-Id: <199603200825.KAA01800@silver.sms.fi>
From: Petri Helenius <pete@sms.fi>
To: Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu
Cc: touch@ISI.EDU, mmacedon@crcg.edu, J.Crowcroft@cs.ucl.ac.uk, young@mci.net, 
    rem-conf@es.net, mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: MCI to offer video services over the Internet
In-Reply-To: <199603200429.XAA24874@black-ice.cc.vt.edu>
References: <199603192143.AA07496@ash-s.isi.edu> <199603200429.XAA24874@black-i
ce.cc.vt.edu>

Valdis Kletnieks writes:
 > On Tue, 19 Mar 1996 13:43:33 PST, touch@ISI.EDU said:
 > > Hmm. Doing telephony over satellite - seems like one or two such
 > > hops and you're dead, given that the latency will creep over 1/2 second.
 > 
 > Hmm.. I must have blinked here and missed a sarcasm alert.  Wasn't the 
original
 > reason for geosyncronous satellites to provide long distance telephone 
service?
 > 
 > Remember.. 0.5 seconds latency may be an eternity for silicon-based life, 
but
 > for us carbon-based critters, it's still a blink of an eye...

And for many of the 'multimedia'-applications jitter (delay variance)
and bandwidth are actually more important than the actual latency. Usually
low jitter comes with either intelligent queueing or high bandwidth. I would
also count low loss as one of the factors since I've yet to see data-
interleaving audio application ...

Pete

------- End of Forwarded Message



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Mar 21 01:35:45 1996
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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 23:35:45 +0200
Message-Id: <199603202135.XAA00700@silver.sms.fi>
From: Petri Helenius <pete@sms.fi>
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: MCI loss
Sender: owner-mbone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO


Since MCI seems to be the single major contributing factor on loss-%
for MBone traffic across their backbone is the any plans on improving
that?

Pete
  Source        Response Dest    Packet Statistics For     Only For Traffic
163.206.3.4     194.111.122.1    All Multicast Traffic     From 163.206.3.4
     v       __/  rtt  561 ms    Lost/Sent = Pct  Rate       To 224.2.135.224
163.206.3.4     nikki.ksc.nasa.gov 
     v     ^      ttl   32       95/248  = 38%  17 pps  -129/0    = --%   0 pps
192.149.141.10  roxanne.pscni.nasa.gov 
     v     ^      ttl   33        2/153  =  1%  11 pps     2/129  =  2%   9 pps
128.183.251.129 mbone-cf.gsfc.nasa.gov 
     v     ^      ttl   34        0/167  =  0%  12 pps     0/127  =  0%   9 pps
192.203.230.241 mbone.nsi.nasa.gov 
     v     ^      ttl   64       13/1163 =  1%  89 pps     2/127  =  2%   9 pps
204.70.158.61  
204.70.158.77   dec3800-2-fddi-1.SanFrancisco.mci.net 
     v     ^      ttl   65        9/1240 =  1%   0 pps     1/125  =  1%   0 pps
204.70.152.61  
204.70.152.77   dec3800-2-fddi-1.Denver.mci.net 
     v     ^      ttl   66       50/1262 =  4%   0 pps     3/124  =  2%   0 pps
204.70.64.61   
204.70.64.77    dec3800-2-fddi-1.WestOrange.mci.net 
     v     ^      ttl   67        7/1273 =  1%   0 pps     1/121  =  1%   0 pps
204.70.64.45   
204.70.64.29    dec3800-1-fddi-0.WestOrange.mci.net 
     v     ^      ttl   68       47/2001 =  2%   0 pps     9/120  =  8%   0 pps
198.67.134.250  ?              
     v     ^      ttl   69        0/1268 =  0%  97 pps     0/111  =  0%   8 pps
192.36.148.206  stockholm.mbone.ebone.net 
     v     ^      ttl   70        0/1695 =  0% 130 pps     0/111  =  0%   8 pps
128.214.1.252   directory.funet.fi 
     v     ^      ttl   71       -1/1853 =  0% 142 pps     0/111  =  0%   8 pps
193.166.1.1     rip.funet.fi   
     v     ^      ttl   72        0/1851 =  0% 142 pps     0/111  =  0%   8 pps
192.36.148.49  
193.166.255.73  kiwi-gw.funet.fi 
     v     ^      ttl   73      187/228  = 82%  17 pps     0/111  =  0%   8 pps
193.166.255.74 
192.194.252.177 swallow-s2.sms.fi 
     v     ^      ttl   74       -1/187  =  0%  14 pps    -1/111  =  0%   8 pps
192.194.252.178
194.111.122.254 hideout-e0.sms.fi 
     v      \__   ttl   75          188         14 pps       112          8 pps
194.111.122.1   194.111.122.1
  Receiver      Query Source

silver:/home/pete(62)% 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 20 10:30:00 1996
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From: Arlie Davis <arlie@thepoint.net>
To: "'mbone@isi.edu'" <mbone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: "'mikej@thepoint.net'" <mikej@thepoint.net>
Subject: Problem with IOS 11.0.4
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 15:30:00 -0500
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I'm having a problem using multicast routing with IOS 11.0.4, running on a
Cisco 7000.

For a group which I know has traffic (the NASA video feed), only a few packets 
per minute actually arrive on my network.  If I do "show ip igmp group" I see
hosts on my local Ethernet properly joined, so no surprises there.
And if I do "show ip mroute 224.2.135.224", I see the (G,*) entry which
correctly lists every interface on which there are listening members,
and I also see (G,S) pairs for every sending pair.  If I do "clear ip mroute",
all of this information is relearned almost instantly.

This all leads me to believe that its working correctly, except the packets
never get forwarded to my local Ethernet, nor downstream DVMRP tunnels,
nor downstream GRE tunnels.

However, if I manually join the group with "int e 2/0" and "ip igmp join x.x.x.x",
it works.  The router also correctly forwards down DVMRP and GRE tunnels
in this case.

Does this sound familiar to anyone?  Once I manually join the group,
I get quite reasonable traffic (loss < 5%).

Any help is much appreciated.

-- arlie


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 20 23:41:46 1996
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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 22:41:46 +0100
From: Henning Sanneck <sanneck@fokus.gmd.de>
Organization: GMD Fokus
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4m)
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To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Delay and Loss on the Mbone
References: <199603201831.AA24751@quark.isi.edu>
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Hi,
> 
> The big problem with Mbone audio though is not delay or delay variance, but
> LOSS. Loss can render speech unintelligible for even low loss rates with the
> packet sizes used over the Mbone.
> 
> Here at UCL we have been trying to come up with methods of repairing the loss.
> We interleave a second low bandwidth version of the coded speech, so that loss
> can be repaired something reasonable. (This performs far better than any of
> the things you can do at the receiver, such as using noise, or the previous
> packet, or sample interpolation etc. etc.)

I think it's important to consider the advantages of receiver-only loss repair:
- independence of the audio tool used at the sender
- different styles/qualities of loss repair are applicable
- no overhead data, no additional processing at the sender

We have developed a receiver-only loss concealment technique which is based on
time-scale modification of correctly received audio.  Time-scale modification
means in this case "stretching" the signal (_without affecting the pitch period_)
to fill the gap caused by lost packets.

As no new information is introduced into the signal, the clicking, tinny and
reverberating sounds of "classical" waveform substitution algorithms can be
minimized.  The main limitation is of course the length of the lost speech
segments, which can be concealed (up to 50ms). 

Henning

P.S. As we haven't finished our paper yet, I can only give a reference in German:
     http://www-nt.e-technik.uni-erlangen.de/~sanneck/da.ps.gz
___________________________________________________________________
           Henning Sanneck

           Research Institute for Open Communication Systems
	   GMD FOKUS, Hardenbergplatz 2, D-10623 Berlin, Germany
Phone    : ++49 / (0)30 / 254 99 - 175
Fax      : ++49 / (0)30 / 254 99 - 202
e-mail   : sanneck@fokus.gmd.de
WWW      : http://www.fokus.gmd.de/usr/san
___________________________________________________________________

> 
> RAT (Robust-Audio Tool) is a new audio tool which uses redundancy to repair
> loss. It is available by ftp. It includes packet loss protection.
> 
> See
> http://www-mice.cs.ucl.ac.uk/mice/rat/index.html
> 
> for details of where you can get hold of RAT binaries.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Vicky
>

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 20 12:13:27 1996
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On Wed, 20 Mar 1996, Richard Chycoski wrote:

> > From: gih@aarnet.edu.au (Geoff Huston)
> > ...
> > I recall a study which placed a threshold of some 0.15 - 0.2 second
> > as the point at which people had to adjust speech to accomodate
> > for the delay, but I've completely forgotten the reference.
> 
> The threshold of detection is under 100 milliseconds. This has dictated some  
> of the parameters for ISDN and ATM. The 500 millisecond delay limit is more  
> the threshold of "tolerance", since more than 500 milliseconds of echo of  
> one's voice tends to confuse the speaker.


As I remember it the base perception threshold is 50ms, the "echo
confusion" tolerance limit is 200ms and the threshold of perception of
conversational delay even given adequate echo cancelling is 500ms. 

> Neither of these is necessarily important in the delivery of "phone service"  
> across the Internet. 

All three are interesting and important constraints on how one builds
voice over IP protocols applications. 

> How many people find the delay of "vat" to be a real  
> problem when talking across the MBone?

I have, under certain conditions. Try doing a simple three (or more) way 
meeting over 150-250ms delay connections, particularly when one or more 
of the participants isn't habituated to the technological limitations.

/id

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 20 13:45:59 1996
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To: Petri Helenius <pete@sms.fi>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: MCI loss 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 20 Mar 1996 23:35:45 +0200."
             <199603202135.XAA00700@silver.sms.fi> 
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 18:45:59 -0500
From: "Jeff Young" <young@mci.net>
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the first of 15 oc-3 circuits will be in place soon.
the first circuits go in between denver and san francisco.

nuff said

Jeff Young
young@mci.net

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> Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 23:35:45 +0200
> Message-Id: <199603202135.XAA00700@silver.sms.fi>
> From: Petri Helenius <pete@sms.fi>
> To: mbone@ISI.EDU
> Subject: MCI loss
> Sender: owner-mbone-na@ISI.EDU
> Precedence: bulk
> 
> 
> Since MCI seems to be the single major contributing factor on loss-%
> for MBone traffic across their backbone is the any plans on improving
> that?
> 
> Pete
>   Source        Response Dest    Packet Statistics For     Only For Traffic
> 163.206.3.4     194.111.122.1    All Multicast Traffic     From 163.206.3.4
>      v       __/  rtt  561 ms    Lost/Sent = Pct  Rate       To 224.2.135.224
> 163.206.3.4     nikki.ksc.nasa.gov 
>      v     ^      ttl   32       95/248  = 38%  17 pps  -129/0    = --%   0 pps
> 192.149.141.10  roxanne.pscni.nasa.gov 
>      v     ^      ttl   33        2/153  =  1%  11 pps     2/129  =  2%   9 pps
> 128.183.251.129 mbone-cf.gsfc.nasa.gov 
>      v     ^      ttl   34        0/167  =  0%  12 pps     0/127  =  0%   9 pps
> 192.203.230.241 mbone.nsi.nasa.gov 
>      v     ^      ttl   64       13/1163 =  1%  89 pps     2/127  =  2%   9 pps
> 204.70.158.61  
> 204.70.158.77   dec3800-2-fddi-1.SanFrancisco.mci.net 
>      v     ^      ttl   65        9/1240 =  1%   0 pps     1/125  =  1%   0 pps
> 204.70.152.61  
> 204.70.152.77   dec3800-2-fddi-1.Denver.mci.net 
>      v     ^      ttl   66       50/1262 =  4%   0 pps     3/124  =  2%   0 pps
> 204.70.64.61   
> 204.70.64.77    dec3800-2-fddi-1.WestOrange.mci.net 
>      v     ^      ttl   67        7/1273 =  1%   0 pps     1/121  =  1%   0 pps
> 204.70.64.45   
> 204.70.64.29    dec3800-1-fddi-0.WestOrange.mci.net 
>      v     ^      ttl   68       47/2001 =  2%   0 pps     9/120  =  8%   0 pps
> 198.67.134.250  ?              
>      v     ^      ttl   69        0/1268 =  0%  97 pps     0/111  =  0%   8 pps
> 192.36.148.206  stockholm.mbone.ebone.net 
>      v     ^      ttl   70        0/1695 =  0% 130 pps     0/111  =  0%   8 pps
> 128.214.1.252   directory.funet.fi 
>      v     ^      ttl   71       -1/1853 =  0% 142 pps     0/111  =  0%   8 pps
> 193.166.1.1     rip.funet.fi   
>      v     ^      ttl   72        0/1851 =  0% 142 pps     0/111  =  0%   8 pps
> 192.36.148.49  
> 193.166.255.73  kiwi-gw.funet.fi 
>      v     ^      ttl   73      187/228  = 82%  17 pps     0/111  =  0%   8 pps
> 193.166.255.74 
> 192.194.252.177 swallow-s2.sms.fi 
>      v     ^      ttl   74       -1/187  =  0%  14 pps    -1/111  =  0%   8 pps
> 192.194.252.178
> 194.111.122.254 hideout-e0.sms.fi 
>      v      \__   ttl   75          188         14 pps       112          8 pps
> 194.111.122.1   194.111.122.1
>   Receiver      Query Source
> 
> silver:/home/pete(62)% 



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 20 14:15:02 1996
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From: Arlie Davis <arlie@thepoint.net>
To: "'mbone@isi.edu'" <mbone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Problem with 11.0.4 fixed (or at least worked-around)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 19:15:02 -0500
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The problem indeed was broken multicast fast-switching.
Thanks very much to Bill Fenner and Daniel Alvarez!

-- arlie


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 20 17:36:30 1996
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To: Mike Macedonia <mmacedon@crcg.edu>
Cc: rem-conf@es.net, mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: MCI to offer video services over the Internet 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 19 Mar 1996 09:39:05 EST."
             <Pine.SUN.3.91.960319092936.26991A-100000@elaine> 
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 22:36:30 -0500
From: "Jeff Young" <young@mci.net>
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this may just be marketspeak for the work that we've done on 
the mbone.  i honestly don't know of a product that will be
announced, nor am i aware of any effort to bring commercial
videoconferencing to the internet.  

but then, i don't speak on behalf of mci.

Jeff Young
young@mci.net

> Return-Path: mmacedon@crcg.edu
> Received: from elaine.crcg.edu (elaine.crcg.edu [199.0.94.1]) by postoffice.reston.mci.net (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA26524 for <young@mci.net>; Tue, 19 Mar 1996 09:38:47 -0500
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> 	id AA27171; Tue, 19 Mar 96 09:39:06 EST
> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 09:39:05 -0500 (EST)
> From: Mike Macedonia <mmacedon@crcg.edu>
> X-Sender: mmacedon@elaine
> To: Jeff Young <young@mci.net>
> Cc: rem-conf@es.net, mbone@isi.edu
> Subject: Re: MCI to offer video services over the Internet 
> In-Reply-To: <199603191333.IAA25498@postoffice.reston.mci.net>
> Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960319092936.26991A-100000@elaine>
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> 
> 
> Jeff,
> 
> See http://www.mci.com/virtual/news-news/top-headline-827152577.html
> 
> >From the release:
> 
> MCI also announced it has formed an advanced applications unit to focus on
> developing emerging Internet applications for its customers. The new unit
> will report to Fred Briggs, MCI's chief engineering officer, and Vint
> Cerf, MCI's senior vice president of data architecture. A few of the
> technologies under development include the use of direct broadcast
> satellite for high-speed Internet connectivity, ** videoconferencing over the
> Internet **, shared applications, multi-media messaging and advanced
> security. 
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> | Michael R. Macedonia, Ph.D.  	| URL:   http://www.crcg.edu	|
> | Vice President		| EMAIL: mmacedon@crcg.edu	|
> | Fraunhofer CRCG 		|				|
> | 167 Angell Street 		| PH :   (+1) 401 453-6363	|
> | Providence, RI 02906		| FAX:   (+1) 401 453-0444	|
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> 					
> 
> On Tue, 19 Mar 1996, Jeff Young wrote:
> 
> > i don't honestly know.  where did you see the press release?
> > no one has approached us about using the multicast backbone
> > for videoconferencing...
> > 
> > Jeff Young
> > young@mci.net
> > 
> > 
> > > Return-Path: majordom@ISI.EDU
> > > Received: from zephyr.isi.edu (zephyr.isi.edu [128.9.160.160]) by postoffice.reston.mci.net (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA24552; Tue, 19 Mar 1996 06:47:24 -0500
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> > > 	id AA26303; Tue, 19 Mar 96 06:25:27 EST
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> > > 	id FAA29715; Tue, 19 Mar 1996 05:56:17 -0500
> > > Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 05:56:17 +30000
> > > From: Mike Macedonia <mmacedon@crcg.edu>
> > > X-Sender: mmacedon@condor
> > > To: rem-conf@es.net
> > > Cc: cu-seeme-l@cornell.edu, mbone@ISI.EDU, videophone@es.net
> > > Subject: MCI to offer video services over the Internet
> > > In-Reply-To: <199603190732.XAA27870@ix2.ix.netcom.com>
> > > Message-Id: <Pine.SGI.3.90.960319055314.29619C-100000@condor>
> > > Mime-Version: 1.0
> > > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> > > Sender: owner-mbone-na@ISI.EDU
> > > Precedence: bulk
> > > 
> > > 
> > > MCI says in a news article that it will include videoconferencing as 
> > > part of its new Internet services.
> > > 
> > > Does anyone have any details? Does this mean multicast?
> > > 
> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > | Michael R. Macedonia, Ph.D.  	| URL:   http://www.crcg.edu	|
> > > | Vice President		| EMAIL: mmacedon@crcg.edu	|
> > > | Fraunhofer CRCG 		|				|
> > > | 167 Angell Street 		| PH :   (+1) 401 453-6363	|
> > > | Providence, RI 02906		| FAX:   (+1) 401 453-0444	|
> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > 					
> > > 
> > 
> > 



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Mar 21 14:02:38 1996
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To: sanneck@fokus.gmd.de
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Loss repair for Audio
X-Mailer: exmh Version:Speedy 1.4 6/24/94
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 96 14:02:38 +0000
From: V.Hardman@cs.ucl.ac.uk
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Dear Henning,

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>I think it's important to consider the advantages of receiver-only loss 
repair:
>- - independence of the audio tool used at the sender
>- - different styles/qualities of loss repair are applicable
>- - no overhead data, no additional processing at the sender
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Receiver only repair is suitable for low loss and small packet sizes. It 
cannot cope with high levels of loss. There are many instances in the 
literature that describe mechanisms which work for small packets 16-32ms, and 
for relatively low levels of loss around about 20% if you are prepared to 
expend a lot of processing power. 

The point is that in order to repair speech at the receiver, you are assuming 
that the speech characteristics have not altered. As the packet size 
increases, so does the probability that the speech characteristics have 
changed, from voiced to unvoiced etc. This means that a receiver only repair 
mechanism will not work for large packet sizes or high loss no matter what you 
do.

Redundancy is a mechanism aimed at the higher loss levels, when a low 
bandwidth and communications quality version of the speech is transmitted 
piggy-backed onto the original. The extra bandwidth is minimal 13 bytes per 
20ms worth of speech, and there are some follow-on ideas to reduce the 
bandwidth further. Bandwidth consumed is not such a worry for the Mbone 
compared to per packet processing - ref Dave Clarks rfc.

Our recent human perception studies have show that a single copy of redundancy 
shows a significant improvement for packet sizes of 40ms duration and for loss 
rates of upto 50%. The improvement can be easily increased if multiple copies 
of the redundancy are sent.

We also have detailed results from both intelligibility and speech quality 
experiements that show only a minimal decrease in speech quality at 80ms if a 
copy of redundancy can be received - the probability of which increases if 
multiple copies are sent.

We use a simple receiver-only based mechanism to repair speech for low loss 
levels. It is expected that a range of solutions are suitable for packet loss 
repair, within which receiver-only mechanisms are suitable for low loss rates 
and small packet sizes, and redundancy-based mechanisms are suitable for large 
packet sizes and high loss rates. (We also assume that loss repair is for 
transient loss recovery, longer-term loss should be dealt with by reducing the 
load on the network).

I will get someone to translate your paper for me. It sounds good.  

If you would like a copy of an earlier paper of ours, then see

http://www-mice.cs.ucl.ac.uk/mice/rat

We have 2 new papers in the pipe-line, which I will send you details of 
soonish.

Regards

Vicky

P.S. You don't happen to work with Henning Schulzrinne do you?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>We have developed a receiver-only loss concealment technique which is based on
>time-scale modification of correctly received audio.  Time-scale modification
>means in this case "stretching" the signal (_without affecting the pitch 
>period_)
>to fill the gap caused by lost packets.

>As no new information is introduced into the signal, the clicking, tinny and
>reverberating sounds of "classical" waveform substitution algorithms can be
>minimized.  The main limitation is of course the length of the lost speech
>segments, which can be concealed (up to 50ms). 

>Henning

>P.S. As we haven't finished our paper yet, I can only give a reference in 
>German:
>     http://www-nt.e-technik.uni-erlangen.de/~sanneck/da.ps.gz
___________________________________________________________________
           Henning Sanneck

           Research Institute for Open Communication Systems
	   GMD FOKUS, Hardenbergplatz 2, D-10623 Berlin, Germany
Phone    : ++49 / (0)30 / 254 99 - 175
Fax      : ++49 / (0)30 / 254 99 - 202
e-mail   : sanneck@fokus.gmd.de
WWW      : http://www.fokus.gmd.de/usr/san
___________________________________________________________________

> 
> RAT (Robust-Audio Tool) is a new audio tool which uses redundancy to repair
> loss. It is available by ftp. It includes packet loss protection.
> 
> See
> http://www-mice.cs.ucl.ac.uk/mice/rat/index.html
> 
> for details of where you can get hold of RAT binaries.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Vicky
>

------- End of Forwarded Message




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Mar 21 05:21:07 1996
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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 10:21:07 -0500
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To: richard@sfu.ca
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At  8:09 AM 3/20/96 -0800, Richard Chycoski wrote:
>
>Also, the availability of cheap long distance can significantly increase the  
>"tolerance" of most ears... (:-)

Exactly.  One needs to recall that much of the existing research was
conducted with the idea of defining The Telephone Service.  Furthermore,
under regulated conditions that provided a guaranteed rate of return, there
would seem not to have been much incentive to determine how willing people
would be to make do with less.  Deciding that The Telephone Service That
People Need would cost $10/month to deliver rather than $5/month would seem
to be a big win if profits are a fixed percentage of cost.

I am probably over-simplifying (can anyone point to a good reference on the
history of telephony?).  But, it will be interesting to see over the coming
years e.g., whether people will tolerate an extra 100 msec delay if it
costs half as much, how much people will pay for a service that only works
half the time, etc.

Tim
__________________________________________________________________
Tim Dorcey                                  Tim_Dorcey@cornell.edu
CIT Network Resources                              (607) 255-5715
Cornell University
Ithaca, NY  14853
__________________________________________________________________


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Mar 21 09:42:45 1996
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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 96 14:42:45 -0500
To: mbone@ISI.EDU, rem-conf@es.net
Subject: New MBone book
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Hi all,

I would like to plug a new book (of which I am a co-author, so that's a motivated
plug) about the MBone:

MBone: Multicasting Tomorrow's Internet
by Kevin Savetz, Neil Randall, and Yves Lepage
ISBN: 1-56884-723-8

Published by IDG Books Worldwide, Inc.
An International Data Group Company
919 E. Hillsdale Blvd., Suite 400, Foster City, CA 94404

You can check the promo pages at http://www.northcoast.com/savetz/mbone
This page contains a link to IDG's homepage.


The intended audience for that book is people who heard about the MBone
and want to know more about it, what it is, how to get on it, etc... How
to create your own events, what rules must be followed (Do not flood the MBONE
with 400kbps of video), what software to use etc...



The book has also been made suitable for ISP's who would like to offer MBONE services to their
customers and would like to have more know-how. The writing also takes into
consideration, those sites who don't have a high speed link to the Internet and
want to know if they can use the technology for their own use or if they have
a high speed link, how the MBone can be useful to them.

Basicly, it is a book that will serve as guidance for the first steps into
this other universe which is the MBone. Things are explained in a way that
(I think) breaks the old paradigm from the FAQ that says "you gotta be a network
guru if you want to get onto the MBone". The book also is technical enough
so that for example, an ISP will be able to setp itself up with an MBONE router
and be able to provides MBone services to its customers, and be able to charge
for it.

Finally, as I discovered while writing that part of the book, understanding the what
and how of administrative scopes wasn't a totally easy job. :-) I've put it all in this
book, what they are, what they can do for you, how they interact with SDR and how
to set them up.

I won't abuse so that's it. :-)


Regards,
Yves Lepage


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Mar 23 03:33:59 1996
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To: mbone@ISI.EDU
From: Chris Robson <crobson@clark.net>
Subject: RT300 Video Blaster
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Anyone have software for Creative labs RT300 Video Blaster?  Looking for VTC
software for both WIN95 and Linux.  Or worst case does anyone have specs on
the RT300 which can help in writing a driver for VIC?


tks......chris


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Mar 25 13:16:29 1996
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From: Yun jae hong <yjhong@green.nextel.net>
Message-Id: <199603241916.EAA04030@green.nextel.net>
Subject: Configure Cisco Router using MBone??
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 04:16:29 +0900 (KST)
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My company is in South Korea. 
I want to make tunnelling to Cisco router( Cisco 7000 ) in my company. 
Most of MBone nodes in Korea are using 'host'( Workstation ) to connect MBone. 
They use 'mrouted' to multicast. 
Maybe Cisco 7000 router support multicasting as I know. 
What should I do for connecting our local network to MBone 
using Cisco 7000 router, and for tunnelling to other nodes in future. 
( I don't want our local net to be leaf node in MBone topology, 
  Our company should support tunnelling to other new nodes. )
And, if I would like to service to other local network 
what i should configure router.?? 

	Thank you.   


*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
 Booyoung-Bldg.                  +               Nextel, Inc.    
 29. Songpa-dong, Songpa-ku      +     &^.^&     Technical Dept. 
 Seoul. 138-170. Korea           +     =^.^=                     
                                 +                Jae-Hong Yun   
 Tel   : 02-202-9300 ( 215 )     +                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^               
 Fax   : 02-202-3414             + E-mail:yjhong@nextel.net      
 Pager : 012-887-5343            +        yjhong@green.nextel.net
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Mar 25 05:40:00 1996
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From: "Myjak, Michael" <MMYJAK@ist.ucf.edu>
To: majordom <majordom@ISI.EDU>, Mike Macedonia <mmacedon@crcg.edu>
Cc: mbone <mbone@ISI.EDU>, rem-conf <rem-conf@es.net>
Subject: Re: MCI to offer video services over the Internet
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 96 10:40:00 EST
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It would be nice, just for once, for the marketing folk to talk to the 
technical folk once in a while, if not just so the customer folk can know 
what's really going on.

Mike, can you fax me a cc of that press release?  I wonder whether this 
service, if it exists, can be used for other "multimedia" applications (like 
DIS).

 -- Michael Myjak
   Senior Research Scientist
   Institute for Simulation and Training
   University of Central Florida
   3280 Progress Drive
   Orlando, Florida   32826
   email: myjak@ist.ucf.edu
   voice: 407.658.5043
   FAX:   407.658.5059

     Off the keyboard, over the bridge, through the router... nothing but 
'net!

 ----------
From: majordom
To: Mike Macedonia
Cc: rem-conf; mbone
Subject: Re: MCI to offer video services over the Internet
Date: Wednesday, March 20, 1996 10:36PM

this may just be marketspeak for the work that we've done on
the mbone.  i honestly don't know of a product that will be
announced, nor am i aware of any effort to bring commercial
videoconferencing to the internet.

but then, i don't speak on behalf of mci.

Jeff Young
young@mci.net

> Return-Path: mmacedon@crcg.edu
> Received: from elaine.crcg.edu (elaine.crcg.edu [199.0.94.1]) by
postoffice.reston.mci.net (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA26524 for
<young@mci.net>; Tue, 19 Mar 1996 09:38:47 -0500
> Received: by elaine.crcg.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1)
>       id AA27171; Tue, 19 Mar 96 09:39:06 EST
> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 09:39:05 -0500 (EST)
> From: Mike Macedonia <mmacedon@crcg.edu>
> X-Sender: mmacedon@elaine
> To: Jeff Young <young@mci.net>
> Cc: rem-conf@es.net, mbone@isi.edu
> Subject: Re: MCI to offer video services over the Internet
> In-Reply-To: <199603191333.IAA25498@postoffice.reston.mci.net>
> Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960319092936.26991A-100000@elaine>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
>
> Jeff,
>
> See http://www.mci.com/virtual/news-news/top-headline-827152577.html
>
> >From the release:
>
> MCI also announced it has formed an advanced applications unit to focus on
> developing emerging Internet applications for its customers. The new unit
> will report to Fred Briggs, MCI's chief engineering officer, and Vint
> Cerf, MCI's senior vice president of data architecture. A few of the
> technologies under development include the use of direct broadcast
> satellite for high-speed Internet connectivity, ** videoconferencing over
the
> Internet **, shared applications, multi-media messaging and advanced
> security.
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> | Michael R. Macedonia, Ph.D.         | URL:   http://www.crcg.edu    |
> | Vice President              | EMAIL: mmacedon@crcg.edu      |
> | Fraunhofer CRCG             |                               |
> | 167 Angell Street           | PH :   (+1) 401 453-6363      |
> | Providence, RI 02906                | FAX:   (+1) 401 453-0444      |
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> On Tue, 19 Mar 1996, Jeff Young wrote:
>
> > i don't honestly know.  where did you see the press release?
> > no one has approached us about using the multicast backbone
> > for videoconferencing...
> >
> > Jeff Young
> > young@mci.net
> >
> >
> > > Return-Path: majordom@ISI.EDU
> > > Received: from zephyr.isi.edu (zephyr.isi.edu [128.9.160.160]) by
postoffice.reston.mci.net (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id GAA24552; Tue, 19 Mar
1996 06:47:24 -0500
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> > >   id <AA03648>; Tue, 19 Mar 1996 03:26:14 -0800
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> > >   id <AA21303>; Tue, 19 Mar 1996 03:26:13 -0800
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> > >   id <AA03633>; Tue, 19 Mar 1996 03:25:28 -0800
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> > >   id <AA03626>; Tue, 19 Mar 1996 03:25:25 -0800
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> > >   id <AA21285>; Tue, 19 Mar 1996 03:25:23 -0800
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> > >   id AA26303; Tue, 19 Mar 96 06:25:27 EST
> > > Received: by condor.crcg.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/SMI-4.0)
> > >   id FAA29715; Tue, 19 Mar 1996 05:56:17 -0500
> > > Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 05:56:17 +30000
> > > From: Mike Macedonia <mmacedon@crcg.edu>
> > > X-Sender: mmacedon@condor
> > > To: rem-conf@es.net
> > > Cc: cu-seeme-l@cornell.edu, mbone@ISI.EDU, videophone@es.net
> > > Subject: MCI to offer video services over the Internet
> > > In-Reply-To: <199603190732.XAA27870@ix2.ix.netcom.com>
> > > Message-Id: <Pine.SGI.3.90.960319055314.29619C-100000@condor>
> > > Mime-Version: 1.0
> > > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> > > Sender: owner-mbone-na@ISI.EDU
> > > Precedence: bulk
> > >
> > >
> > > MCI says in a news article that it will include videoconferencing as
> > > part of its new Internet services.
> > >
> > > Does anyone have any details? Does this mean multicast?
> > >
> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > | Michael R. Macedonia, Ph.D.     | URL:   http://www.crcg.edu    |
> > > | Vice President          | EMAIL: mmacedon@crcg.edu      |
> > > | Fraunhofer CRCG                 |                               |
> > > | 167 Angell Street               | PH :   (+1) 401 453-6363      |
> > > | Providence, RI 02906            | FAX:   (+1) 401 453-0444      |
> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> >
> >



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Mar 25 07:52:56 1996
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From: geek@imageek.york.cuny.edu (Erik Van Riper)
Message-Id: <199603251752.MAA14553@imageek.york.cuny.edu>
Subject: MBONE feed for City University of New York
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 12:52:56 -0500 (EST)
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A few months ago, I asked about getting a tunnel for York College. 

I was directed to NYSERNET.

No response.

So, would someone in the area be kind enough to provide me with a tunnel?

Much thanks!

-- 
geek@imageek.york.cuny.edu                    http://imageek.york.cuny.edu
Erik Van Riper (EV34)                                       (718) 262-2667
Systems Administrator      Go player      Photon Counter      Coffee lover  
Language design is 10% science and 90% psychology.        --    Larry Wall

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Mar 25 11:57:03 1996
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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 16:57:03 -0500 (EST)
From: Rich Martin <rmartin@inotech.com>
To: Erik Van Riper <geek@imageek.york.cuny.edu>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: MBONE feed for City University of New York
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Erik:

	Try sending mail to mbone-admin@sprint.net.  There was a mbone 
router for NyserNet customers at the Pennsauken NAP at one time, not sure 
if its still there or not, but the folks at Sprint should be able to tell 
you.

Rich Martin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
InoTech
2222 Gallows Road
Dunn Loring, Virginia  22027
(703) 641-0469
(703) 641-0206 FAX
inotech@inotech.com

Systems and Network Management Consulting
Internet Value-Added Services

On Mon, 25 Mar 1996, Erik Van Riper wrote:

> A few months ago, I asked about getting a tunnel for York College. 
> 
> I was directed to NYSERNET.
> 
> No response.
> 
> So, would someone in the area be kind enough to provide me with a tunnel?
> 
> Much thanks!
> 
> -- 
> geek@imageek.york.cuny.edu                    http://imageek.york.cuny.edu
> Erik Van Riper (EV34)                                       (718) 262-2667
> Systems Administrator      Go player      Photon Counter      Coffee lover  
> Language design is 10% science and 90% psychology.        --    Larry Wall
> 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Mar 25 13:49:02 1996
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From: Scott Burris <scott@cns.ucla.edu>
Message-Id: <199603260549.VAA20476@pita.cns.ucla.edu>
Subject: Macintosh and Windows MBONE tool available for alpha testing
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 21:49:02 -0800 (PST)
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Details at the UCLA Mbone Tools page at:

http://pita.cns.ucla.edu/mbone/

Briefly, they currently support sd, nv video, and pcm audio.
The Macintosh version can both send and receive.  The Windows version
is receive only.  

These are to be considered alpha quality releases.  We would appreciate
any feedback.


----------
Scott Burris
UCLA Campus Network Services
Office of Academic Computing
(310) 206-4860 scott@cns.ucla.edu

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Mar 25 18:11:44 1996
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Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 02:11:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Stephen Casner <casner@precept.com>
To: rem-conf@es.net
Subject: Transition to RTP audio on MBone
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[This note is sent to the rem-conf list where followups should go, but
is blind-cc'd to the mbone list in case some folks are only there.]

To the MBone Community:

With the Real-time Transport Protocol (RTPv2) now published as
Proposed Standard RFC 1889, it is time for us to make a significant
transition and begin using RTP to carry audio on the MBone.  As the
chair of the IETF AVT working group, I'm sending this message to start
the process and will continue to "evangelize" as needed.

The key elements of this transition are:

  - running vat with the -r option to select RTPv2
  - using the new UCL tool sdr as a replacement for sd to
    automatically invoke vat with that option.  You should start
    running sdr now!

The native "vat protocol" (sometimes referred to as RTPv0) that
encapsulates the encoding formats implemented by the vat program has
served well since 1992.  However, vat version 4.0, which has been in
alpha test for a few months, implements RTPv2 in addition to the
native protocol and will use RTPv2 when started with the -r option.
Note that the authors of vat and sd at LBL fully support this
transition.  The vat 4.0 documentation says:

  RTP is far superior to the original vat protocol and we hope it
  will soon become the default but in the interim we have to figure
  out the right sequence of tool deployment and sd/sdr changes to
  coordinate an orderly transition between the two protocols. We
  encourage experimenters to use RTP mode whenever possible.

The transition from sd to sdr is necessary because the protocol
implemented in sd and the .sd.tcl files _as deployed_ do not provide
a means to specify the use of RTP and invoke vat with the -r option.
The sdr program implements a second generation of the Session
Directory Protocol (SDP) that can specify the use of RTP, and the
sdr program chooses RTP as the default for audio when creating
sessions.  Besides, sdr implements a bunch of nicer features that the
authors of sd have refrained from implementing because this
transition was planned.

What To Do
==========

1. Get sdr either from its home at UCL or the USA mirror site:

   ftp://cs.ucl.ac.uk/mice/sdr/
   ftp://parcftp.xerox.com/pub/net-research/apps/sdr/

   Binaries are there for 5 or 6 UNIX platforms.

2. Please start running sdr now so that you will see sessions using
   RTP audio that are only advertised in sdr.  There is a gateway
   which listens to the global sd advertisements and retransmits them
   to sdr, so you don't need to run sd.

3. If you have an old (3.x) version of vat, it is definitely time to
   upgrade.  Note that new versions of vat and vic, including
   binaries, have been posted in the past few days to:

   ftp://ftp.ee.lbl.gov/conferencing/vat/alpha-test
   ftp://ftp.ee.lbl.gov/conferencing/vic/alpha-test

   It is predicted that these programs will advance from alpha
   release status soon!

4. If you are transmitting a session, please help promote this
   transition by advertising your session with sdr rather than sd and
   using RTP (the default) for audio protocol (you may independently
   choose PCM, DVI or GSM encoding as before).  If you send email
   about your session, mention that listeners should find it with sdr.
   I hope to see all events make this transition by the time of the
   next IETF meeting (late June).

Try It Now
==========

Hugh LaMaster at NASA was kind enough to create an RTP test session
in sdr as a secondary channel for the current STS-76 shuttle mission
and possibly contining next week with other NASA Select programming.
You can use this session to make sure you've got all the necessary
software in place and to test out the new features of sdr and of
vat when operating in RTP mode.

Note that this RTP test session will appear in sdr in addition to
the STS-76 Audio and Video sessions that are gatewayed from sd.

This secondary shuttle channel is being sent at low bandwidth (64kb/s
for video, and GSM for audio) to conserve bandwith but also in
response to requests from folks who wanted to be able to watch over
128kb/s ISDN lines.

Comments welcome.
							-- Steve

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 27 04:17:10 1996
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Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 09:17:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Mike Macedonia <mmacedon@crcg.edu>
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To: tstaff@crcg.edu
Cc: rem-conf@es.net, mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: intro to multicast routing
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 96 08:51:38 -0500
From: Internet-Drafts@CNRI.Reston.VA.US
To: IETF-Announce:  ;
Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-rfced-info-semeria-00.txt

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
directories.                                                               

       Title     : Introduction to IP Multicast Routing                    
       Author(s) : C. Semeria, T. Maufer
       Filename  : draft-rfced-info-semeria-00.txt
       Pages     : 55
       Date      : 03/26/1996

The first part of this paper describes the benefits of multicasting, 
the MBONE, Class D addressing, and the operation of the Internet Group 
Management Protocol (IGMP).  The second section explores a number of 
different algorithms that may potentially be employed by multicast 
routing protocols:  
                                                               
 - Flooding 
 - Spanning Trees 
 - Reverse Path Broadcasting (RPB) 
 - Truncated Reverse Path Broadcasting (TRPB) 
 - Reverse Path Multicasting (RPM) 
 - Core Based Trees  
                                                              
The third part contains the main body of the paper.  It describes how the 
previous algorithms are implemented in multicast routing protocols 
available today.           
                                                
 - Distance Vector Multicast Routing Protocol (DVMRP)  
 - Multicast OSPF (MOSPF)  
 - Protocol-Independent Multicast (PIM)                            

Internet-Drafts are available by anonymous FTP.  Login with the username
"anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address.  After logging in,
type "cd internet-drafts" and then
     "get draft-rfced-info-semeria-00.txt".
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From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Mar 27 06:57:50 1996
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From: Yves Lepage <yves@CC.McGill.CA>
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 96 11:57:50 -0500
To: mbone@ISI.EDU, rem-conf@es.net
Subject: SDR for NeXT
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Hi all,

I'd like to announce that I've finally found the time to port SDR to the NeXT.

I only have an m68k version for now. Being able to produce quad-fat binaries
will require some more efforts as I will have to install everything for all
4 archs (tcl/tk, libs, X libs etc...).

You can find the m68k version at: ftp://ftp.mcgill.ca/pub/systems/NeXT/mbone

SDR is there along with nv and sd_listen.

You'll of course need to have an X server running on your machine to be able
to profit from these MBone apps.

My next project will be vic2.7.

Have fun.

Yves Lepage

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Mar 28 02:47:38 1996
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From: "Bill Nowicki" <nowicki@tree.engr.sgi.com>
Message-Id: <9603281047.ZM15312@tree.engr.sgi.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 10:47:38 -0800
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail)
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Is the rate-limit *queuing* useful?
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The recent 3.x versions of mrouted have a feature that allows
rate limits, so multicast traffic does not interfere with
unicast traffic (sort of the opposite of RSVP).  This is
ubdoubtedly a useful feature. However, the current implementation
includes a two-dimensional array used as a queue for each
virtual interface. The IRIX 6.2 port happens to have a
multi-processor locking bug in this queue implementation.

I am wondering if it is worth fixing the locking bug, or
if we should just take this code out. Is it really better
to queue up packets and delay them even further when a
link gets over-utilized? Perhaps you might as well
just drop them, since delayed real-time packets are
not very useful anyway. And in the long term we want
priorities based on who made reservations, right?

Does anyone know the rationale behind this queue?
It looks like the idea was to try to get audio through
even when someone is sending too much video. Does it
work in practice? That is, does the audio still sound
reasonable when this queue kicks in?

By the way, the reason users seem to be using the rate
limit is to limit DVMRP routing loops. Are we the only
ones who see these loops? An FDDI to FDDI multicast
routing loop can melt down a entire campus real fast.

Thanks, Bill Nowicki
	Silicon Graphics

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Mar 28 03:59:12 1996
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To: "Bill Nowicki" <nowicki@tree.engr.sgi.com>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Is the rate-limit *queuing* useful? 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 28 Mar 96 10:47:38 PST."
             <9603281047.ZM15312@tree.engr.sgi.com> 
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 11:59:12 PST
From: Bill Fenner <fenner@parc.xerox.com>
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In message <9603281047.ZM15312@tree.engr.sgi.com> you write:
>It looks like the idea was to try to get audio through
>even when someone is sending too much video. Does it
>work in practice? That is, does the audio still sound
>reasonable when this queue kicks in?

I use "rate_limit 100" on my ISDN line to home, and audio still sounds
crisp and clear even with 128kbps of video.

  Bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Mar 28 08:10:15 1996
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To: "Bill Nowicki" <nowicki@tree.engr.sgi.com>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU, deering@parc.xerox.com
Subject: Re: Is the rate-limit *queuing* useful? 
In-Reply-To: nowicki's message of Thu, 28 Mar 96 10:47:38 -0800.
             <9603281047.ZM15312@tree.engr.sgi.com> 
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 16:10:15 PST
From: Steve Deering <deering@parc.xerox.com>
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> I am wondering if it is worth fixing the locking bug, or
> if we should just take this code out. Is it really better
> to queue up packets and delay them even further when a
> link gets over-utilized? Perhaps you might as well
> just drop them, since delayed real-time packets are
> not very useful anyway.

Bill,

The queue allows some burstiness in the multicast traffic, while still
ensuring that the specified max rate is not exceeded over time (it's the
bucket in a token-bucket traffic limiter).  Such burstiness might occur,
for example, when some number of voice samples get bunched together in a
queue in a previous router.  Always throwing away the second of two
back-to-back multicast packets to stay within a configured bandwidth
limit would likely be much more harmful to perceived quality than the
bounded delays that the queueing can introduce.  I hope you were being
sarcastic when you said that "delayed real-time packets are not very useful
anyway".  If not, perhaps you do not understand how vat works.

> And in the long term we want priorities based on who made
> reservations, right?

As soon as possible, we want routers to do something more sophisticated
than FIFO queueing, in order to prevent any one source from monopolizing
a link.  As soon as the routers start doing something like RED, we will
gladly rip out the multicast rate limiter.  It'll take a lot longer before
the infrastructure (technical, administrative, fiscal, etc.) is in place
for doing end-to-end reservations over the heterogenous Internet, and
even if it were in place, it is unlikely that we will want to insist that
all multicast traffic be reservation based.

> Does anyone know the rationale behind this queue?
> It looks like the idea was to try to get audio through
> even when someone is sending too much video. Does it
> work in practice? That is, does the audio still sound
> reasonable when this queue kicks in?

The purpose of the queue is to allow burstiness in the rate-limited traffic.
The purpose of the priority dropping, when the queue overflows, is to
favor certain packets (e.g., audio) over others (e.g., video), when the
combined traffic exceeds the rate limit.  Yes, it does work.

> By the way, the reason users seem to be using the rate
> limit is to limit DVMRP routing loops.

That's the first time I've heard that.  It was certainly not the motivation
for adding the rate limiter, and I was not aware that people are encountering
DVMRP routing loops.  (There have been one or two reports of loops caused by
sticking a LAN bridge between a pair of previously separate subnets, and not
telling mrouted about the presence of the additional subnets, but that is
dealt with by proper mrouted configuration, not by rate limiting multicast
traffic.)  As far as I know, most mrouteds are running without any rate
limit, and do not suffer from DVMRP loops.  Perhaps there's something unique
about your topology or configuration that reveals a looping problem in DVMRP,
and if so, I am very interested in tracking it down and fixing it.  Bill
Fenner and I will be happy to work with you to try to diagnose your problem.

Steve


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Mar 29 19:39:01 1996
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To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Reply-To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: will mrouted be able to use new multicast routing kernel interface?
From: Katsuhiro Kondou <kondou@uxd.fc.nec.co.jp>
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Now I'm implementing multicast routing function on our kernel which is
based on SVR4.2MP.  My goal is that several multicast routing protocol
are to be available through latest or future GateD(now 3.6A1).   From
GateD doc,  I found UNIX kernel requirements for multicast routing
protocols written by  pusateri@cs.duke.edu  and the patches for NetBSD.
The requirements indicates new kernel interfaces which are the use of
routing socket and tunnel interface(not vif), and these seem to be good.

I've already done making routing socket interface  and can easily
include Tom's requirements.   But I'd like to know wheather future 
mrouted will be able to use the new interface.  If not, mrouted will
not be available on our OS.
-- 
Katsuhiro Kondou
NEC Corporation, Tokyo JAPAN



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Mar 28 18:50:38 1996
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To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: will mrouted be able to use new multicast routing kernel interface? 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 29 Mar 1996 10:39:01 +0900."
             <199603290139.KAA01485@netkeeper.m2.uxd.fc.nec.co.jp> 
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Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 23:50:38 -0500
From: Thomas Pusateri <pusateri@netedge.com>
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In message <199603290139.KAA01485@netkeeper.m2.uxd.fc.nec.co.jp> you write:
>Now I'm implementing multicast routing function on our kernel which is
>based on SVR4.2MP.  My goal is that several multicast routing protocol
>are to be available through latest or future GateD(now 3.6A1).   From
>GateD doc,  I found UNIX kernel requirements for multicast routing
>protocols written by  pusateri@cs.duke.edu  and the patches for NetBSD.
>The requirements indicates new kernel interfaces which are the use of
>routing socket and tunnel interface(not vif), and these seem to be good.
>
>I've already done making routing socket interface  and can easily
>include Tom's requirements.   But I'd like to know wheather future 
>mrouted will be able to use the new interface.  If not, mrouted will
>not be available on our OS.

This work was pretty much proof of concept. Its the right direction to go for
BSD 4.4 systems but not for 4.3 based systems. Gated also supports the
standard ipmulti 3.5 kernel interface. I would use that for now since
its more standard and readily available.

Tom

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Mar 28 16:31:56 1996
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From: Dan Grillo <Dan_Grillo@next.com>
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Organization: Information Services, NeXT Software, Inc.
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: patches for solaris 2.4 sparc5 audio problems with vat
Versions: dmail 2.0g/makemail 2.8h
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I hate to ask about this, because I know I've seen others
ask.  I checked the mailing list archive and faq on isi, and a
few web sites, but haven't had any luck.

I'm having audio problems with vat on my solaris 2.4 sparc5.
Can anyone point me to the patches I need to install?

Thanks.

			--Dan
--
  Dan Grillo  dan@next.com  415 780-2963  MIME, NeXTmail accepted

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Mar 29 09:15:49 1996
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Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 09:15:49 +0000 (GMT)
From: Graeme Wood <jaw@ucs.ed.ac.uk>
Reply-To: Graeme.Wood@ucs.ed.ac.uk
To: Dan Grillo <Dan_Grillo@next.com>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: patches for solaris 2.4 sparc5 audio problems with vat
In-Reply-To: <9603290831.AA05270@femail.NeXT.COM>
Message-Id: <Pine.SV4.3.91.960329091526.459A-100000@scorpio.ucs.ed.ac.uk>
X-Department: "Unix Systems Support, Computing Services"
X-Organisation: "The University of Edinburgh"
X-Url: "http://ugwww.ucs.ed.ac.uk/People/Graeme.Wood/"
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On Fri, 29 Mar 1996, Dan Grillo wrote:

> I hate to ask about this, because I know I've seen others
> ask.  I checked the mailing list archive and faq on isi, and a
> few web sites, but haven't had any luck.
> 
> I'm having audio problems with vat on my solaris 2.4 sparc5.
> Can anyone point me to the patches I need to install?

102125-02 is the one you want.

=============================================================================
Graeme Wood                                 Email: Graeme.Wood@ucs.ed.ac.uk
Unix Systems Support                        Phone: +44 131 650 5003
The University of Edinburgh                 Fax:   +44 131 650 6552
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scottish MICE National Support Centre       Email: mice-nsc-scotland@ed.ac.uk
for your multimedia conferencing support    WWW:   http://mice.ed.ac.uk/mice/
=============================================================================


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Mar 29 07:20:23 1996
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Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 13:20:23 -0600
From: root@webit.eds.com (J. Darrel Thomas)
Message-Id: <199603291920.NAA00579@wwosouth.webIT.eds.com>
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Request For Tunnel
Cc: kaz@sprint.net, davidh@onramp.net
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I would like to add my site xweb.eds.com to the MBone via a tunnel.  Here
is how my tunnel endpoint configuration would look:

Mrouter Machine:	SunSPARC5, Solaris 2.4	Generic_101945-32 sun4m sparc
Multicast kernel Patch:				version 3.5/3.8
ftp://playground.sun.com			Solaris_mc35.2.4.tar.Z
Mrouter Machine (My Endpoint) IP Address:	205.240.248.45
						(mbone.xweb.eds.com)

The MBone Administrator Contact Address Is As Follows:

J. Darrel Thomas
Electronic Data Systems Corporation
5400 Legacy Drive B4-2B-15
Plano, Texas  75024
Voice (Daytime)	214-604-1231
Pager		1-800-225-0256, pin #2730508
E-Mail:		jdthomas@webIT.eds.com

Any help in providing me with a tunnel would be greatly appreciated.

jDT

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Apr  2 05:02:24 1996
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Subject: Ascend 400 crashing
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Date: Sun, 31 Mar 1996 13:02:24 -0800
From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
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Hi,

My ISP's Ascend 400 is being trashed by my FreeBSD box mbone tunnel.
Typical usage like ftp or telnet does not seem to cause any problems
with the Ascend 400.
                                         128KB
FreeBSD box -- Ascend Pipeline 50 <----> ISDN  <-----> Ascend 400

I am just wondering if anyone else who may be using using an Ascend 400
is experiencing similar problems.


  Tnks,
  Amancio


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Apr  2 11:01:54 1996
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From: Arlie Davis <arlie@thepoint.net>
To: "'MBONE Mailing List'" <mbone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: "'Bob Thurmond'" <RCTHUR01@ulkyvm.louisville.edu>,
        "'Michael Jung'"
	 <mikej@thepoint.net>
Subject: Release 1.1 of Win32 Session Directory
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 1996 16:01:54 -0500
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                MBONE Session Directory
                                for
                Windows NT and Windows 95
                       Version 1.1 beta

This is the second test release of my MBONE Session Directory tool.  It 
was written from scratch, by analyzing the (relatively simple) packet 
format.  Later, I found the IETF draft of the Session Description Protocol, 
and implemented most of that.  Most of SDP V2 has been implemented.

Things it can do

*  Receive sessions.
*  Receive sessions on the SDP V2 group and port.
*  Show detailed information about sessions.

Things it cannot (yet) do

*  Originate sessions
*  Cache known sessions to disk
*  Run external programs

Things currently in beta testing

*  DDE communication with media tools.  This currently has a few too 
   many bugs, but it will be released Real Soon Now.  This will allow the 
   SD tool to communicate with media stream tools, in order to open 
   sessions and the like.

Known bugs

*  Doesn't get the session lifetimes correct sometimes.

Where to get it

You can always find it at these fine locations:

*  http://archive.thepoint.net/Internet/Interactive%20media/MBONE/SD/Win32
*  ftp://archive.thepoint.net/Archive/Internet/Interactive%20media/MBONE/SD/Win32

I am currently developing Win32 applications which will allow 
transmission and reception of many audio and video formats that are 
common on the MBONE.  If you are interested in this, feel free to drop 
me a line.  (That said, however, don't write to me if all you are going to 
say is, "Me too!".  I know.  Trust me, you'll get a copy when it's ready.)

If you enjoy using this, great!  If you have suggestions for how to improve 
it (beyond just urging me to implement what the UNIX SD does), let me 
know.  If you feel like complaining, go write your own version and 
complain to yourself.

-- Arlie Davis <arlie@thepoint.net>




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Mar 29 16:39:01 1996
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To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Cc: jim@interop.net
Subject: Interop host 45.16.0.113 sending 500kb/s of garbage at ttl 255
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 96 00:39:01 PST
From: Van Jacobson <van@ee.lbl.gov>
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Host 45.16.0.113 is sending 576 byte 'ip proto 0' packets every
10ms (!) to multicast address 224.1.1.1 at ttl 255 (!!).  Could
someone stop it?  Failing that, would whoever supplies a tunnel
to net 45 please disconnect them?  Thanks.

 - Van


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Apr  1 02:43:48 1996
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To: Geoff White <geoffw@precipice.V-site.net>
Cc: ascend-users@precipice.V-site.net, Arlie Davis <arlie@thepoint.net>,
        "'Michael Jung'" <mikej@thepoint.net>, mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Pipeline 400 chokes on MBONE traffic 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 01 Apr 1996 08:08:23 PST."
             <Pine.SUN.3.91.960401075930.25434B-100000@precipice.v-site.net> 
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 10:43:48 -0800
From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
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My Ascend Pipeline 50 Software revision is "+4.4+" S/N 5090526

I am running mrouted 3.8 on my freebsd box and the other end of my 
tunnel toad.com is running mrouted 3.8

	Tnks,
	Amancio

>>> Geoff White said:
 > 
 > Has anybody had similar problems running MBONE tunnels through a
 > pipeline 400 (or any ascend for that matter). His connection profile
 > has VJ compression and link stat compression enabled. I've seen the MBONE
 > traffic bring the ALU and CLU both to 100%. Generally when this happens
 > all other clients begin to slow down and the unit often resets.
 > 
 > I have a pipeline 400 with 4 digital modems, software rev 4.5
 > S/N 5160165. It's attached to a DMS 100 switch. The distant unit is a 
 > pipeline 50HX. don't know what rev its running
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > On Sun, 31 Mar 1996, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote:
 > 
 > > Hi,
 > > 
 > > It appears that the Ascend 400 crashes as in it stops and it dumps
 > > a few registers which at that point the Ascend 400 needs to be 
 > > rebooted . Geoff can give more configuration info on his router.
 > > 
 > > My wild guess is that it may be related to how fast we can drive
 > > the Ascend 400. Not related to this problem on FreeBSD we have 
 > > had problems with Motorola's BitSurf because we drive them
 > > to fast and they  reset themselves.
 > 
 > > Tnks for the info!!
 > > Amancio
 > > 
 > > >>> Arlie Davis said:
 > >  > We have several Ascend 400s in production use.  One of them
 > >  > has a lot of multicast traffic going over it.  We have lots of problems
 > >  > with Ascend products in general, but it has never gagged on
 > >  > DVMRP tunnels.  We have run DVMRP tunnels and Cisco GRE
 > >  > tunnels over our Ascends, and never had a problem.
 > >  > 
 > >  > By "being trashed", do you mean that the traffic load is so high
 > >  > that normal traffic is disrupted, or does the multicast traffic
 > >  > cause more significant problems?  Locking up the Ascend
 > >  > would definitely qualify, for example...
 > >  > 
 > >  > -- arlie
 > >  > 
 > >  > ----------
 > >  > From: 	Amancio Hasty Jr.[SMTP:hasty@rah.star-gate.com]
 > >  > Sent: 	Sunday, March 31, 1996 3:30 PM
 > >  > To: 	mbone@ISI.EDU
 > >  > Cc: 	geoffw@v-site.net
 > >  > Subject: 	Ascend 400 crashing
 > >  > 
 > >  > 
 > >  > 
 > >  > Hi,
 > >  > 
 > >  > My ISP's Ascend 400 is being trashed by my FreeBSD box mbone tunnel.
 > >  > Typical usage like ftp or telnet does not seem to cause any problems
 > >  > with the Ascend 400.
 > >  >                                          128KB
 > >  > FreeBSD box -- Ascend Pipeline 50 <----> ISDN  <-----> Ascend 400
 > >  > 
 > >  > I am just wondering if anyone else who may be using using an Ascend 400
 > >  > is experiencing similar problems.
 > >  > 
 > >  > 
 > >  >   Tnks,
 > >  >   Amancio
 > >  > 
 > >  > 
 > > 
 > > 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Apr  1 06:29:26 1996
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Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 14:29:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Martin <jim@interop.net>
To: Van Jacobson <van@ee.lbl.gov>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Interop host 45.16.0.113 sending 500kb/s of garbage at ttl 255
In-Reply-To: <199604010839.AAA01088@rx7.ee.lbl.gov>
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On Mon, 1 Apr 1996, Van Jacobson wrote:

> Host 45.16.0.113 is sending 576 byte 'ip proto 0' packets every
> 10ms (!) to multicast address 224.1.1.1 at ttl 255 (!!).  Could
> someone stop it?  Failing that, would whoever supplies a tunnel
> to net 45 please disconnect them?  Thanks.

	The situation has been resolved. The gear and the operators in 
question have been informed and reset. As always, my appologies....

						Jim

	Jim Martin			Internet: jim@interop.net
	Network Engineering		Fax: (408) 541-4121 
	Softbank Expos			Phone: (408) 541-4166


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Apr  1 07:31:37 1996
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From: Chris Trown <ctrown@cheops.net.CSUChico.EDU>
Subject: SUN's April Fools Gag
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
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     It's been kinda interesting watching people walk into the room and 
seeing what looks to be a server serving coffee.  There's also the guy in the 
red shirt and a huge coffee mug(??) on his head munching on stuff.

     Is that a shark on top of the box?  Hard to be 100% sure with the current
camera angle.

     Is there any way we can get more details on what we are seeing to put what
we are seeing into perspective?

     Thanks!

Chris...


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Apr  1 16:53:29 1996
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Priority: Normal
To: Jim Martin <jim@interop.net>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Mime-Version: 1.0
From: Frank T Solensky <solensky@ftp.com>
Subject: Re: Interop host 45.16.0.113 sending 500kb/s of garbage at ttl 255
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 96 21:53:29 EST
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> 	The situation has been resolved. The gear and the operators in 
> question have been informed and reset. As always, my appologies....

Resetting the operators seems a bit harsh, don'ja think?

Or did you just set their TTLs to 1?

(sorry...)


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr  3 18:28:28 1996
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Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 08:28:28 +1000 (EST)
From: George Michaelson <ggm@connect.com.au>
Message-Id: <199604022228.IAA14592@broon.off.connect.com.au>
To: rem-conf@es.net
Subject: Efficient IP/Mbone on Frame Relay?
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Since frame has multicast capability, is there a layering which
can exploit it?

ditto for RSVP: is there a method of leveraging off the CIR and
other ideas in frame to provide the on-demand b/w?

-George

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr  3 18:31:59 1996
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From: George Michaelson <ggm@connect.com.au>
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To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Mbone and PSTN
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to summarize, nobody is doing anything they are prepared to
admit to.

the week I posted saw puff-pieces in the Australian newspapers
about "emergence of voice capabilities on internet" and I have
looked at the grassroots projects to build a community of users
but as far as integration into the PSTN, its a big fat nada.

I'm disappointed there isn't even a small group in MCI who will
stick up their hands and admit they have tried designing something
to do DTMF dialout.

Oh yes, I confirmed that 8:1 compression h/w is now considered
adequate to deploy on an international voice circuit and re-inject
into the public network. It is claimed to add in around 1.5 QDU
of noise. Thats 8kb/s which is lower datarate than GSM in vat...

-George

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr  3 05:17:16 1996
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Subject: Upside down audio?
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 96 10:17:16 -0500
From: "Scott A. McIntyre" <smcintyre@whoi.edu>
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I've recently started experiencing a most peculiar problem.  In a VAT 
(4.0a8) session between myself and someone else at my "site" we are only 
able to exchange audio which is best compared with either the theme music 
to a horror film (lots of screechy broken violins, with the occasional 
low beat/rhythm for tension) or to the Battlestar Galactica villians the 
Cylons.

To the best of our knowledge, neither one of us have made any changes to 
our systems which would warrant this type of change.  I am running a Sun 
SparcStation 5 and the other party is running a Ultra 1.  Both with 
Solaris 2.5.

Another symptom is that our recent wb sessions are inverted.  Again, this 
was working fine up until a week or two ago, but since then, when we 
write on wb one person's looks upside down to the other.  We have the 
same page orientation and nothing has changed from that point of view.

I know this is silly, but could the two symptoms be somehow related to 
something going wrong with our mcast packets?  We do see each other's WB 
drawings, but inverted...and occasionally his audio yields something that 
sounds coherent to what is being broadcast.

Any advice would be most appreciated.

Scott

P.S.  We're using primarily proteon routers and no mrouted at this time.  
Could this be a hardware problem?


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr  3 17:36:21 1996
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Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 16:36:21 +0100 (BST)
From: Graeme Wood <jaw@ucs.ed.ac.uk>
Reply-To: Graeme.Wood@ucs.ed.ac.uk
To: "Scott A. McIntyre" <smcintyre@whoi.edu>
Cc: mbone <mbone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Upside down audio?
In-Reply-To: <199604031517.KAA03680@cocacola.whoi.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.SV4.3.91.960403163123.455G-100000@scorpio.ucs.ed.ac.uk>
X-Department: "Unix Systems Support, Computing Services"
X-Organisation: "The University of Edinburgh"
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On Wed, 3 Apr 1996, Scott A. McIntyre wrote:

> 
> I've recently started experiencing a most peculiar problem.  In a VAT 
> (4.0a8) session between myself and someone else at my "site" we are only 
> able to exchange audio which is best compared with either the theme music 
> to a horror film (lots of screechy broken violins, with the occasional 
> low beat/rhythm for tension) or to the Battlestar Galactica villians the 
> Cylons.
> 
> To the best of our knowledge, neither one of us have made any changes to 
> our systems which would warrant this type of change.  I am running a Sun 
> SparcStation 5 and the other party is running a Ultra 1.  Both with 
> Solaris 2.5.

I have the same kind of audio problems on a SPARC 5 running 2.4 with patch
102125-02.  The problem only occurs if I run more than one vat session
simultaneously.  The problem occurs if audio is being heard on one vat
session and I start a new one up or if audio switches from one vat session
to another.  It seems that the switch over/startup causes something to be
reset on the audio device and causes the buffer sizes or something else to
be changed resulting a rather nasty noise. 

This *only* occurs with vat 4.0; vat 3.4 is fine.

> Another symptom is that our recent wb sessions are inverted.  Again, this 
> was working fine up until a week or two ago, but since then, when we 
> write on wb one person's looks upside down to the other.  We have the 
> same page orientation and nothing has changed from that point of view.

I haven't a clue as to what might cause this :-<

=============================================================================
Graeme Wood                                 Email: Graeme.Wood@ucs.ed.ac.uk
Unix Systems Support                        Phone: +44 131 650 5003
The University of Edinburgh                 Fax:   +44 131 650 6552
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scottish MICE National Support Centre       Email: mice-nsc-scotland@ed.ac.uk
for your multimedia conferencing support    WWW:   http://mice.ed.ac.uk/mice/
=============================================================================


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr  3 05:57:08 1996
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Date: Wed, 3 Apr 96 10:57:08 EST
From: andrew@calvin.dgbt.doc.ca (Andrew Patrick)
Message-Id: <9604031557.AA24617@calvin.dgbt.doc.ca>
Reply-To: andrew@calvin.dgbt.doc.ca
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: duplication in SDR announcements
Sender: owner-mbone@ISI.EDU
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I am seeing some duplication in the SDR announcements that 
seems to be coming from two sites relaying info from
the SD system.

Looking at MBONE Video, for example, I see two sessions
in SDR.  They have both been relayed from SD.  One
appears to have been relayed by

128.16.64.13 (boom.cs.ucl.ac.uk)

and the other from 

140.173.112.2 (unresolvable).

I am also seeing duplication for:

Fusion Demo
UCB MM Seminar - Slides

Is anyone else seeing this?  This should be cleared up if we want
people to use SDR as the standard tool now.



-- 
           Andrew Patrick, Ph.D. <andrew@calvin.dgbt.doc.ca>
               Networks Services & Interfaces Laboratory
                     Communications Research Centre
                       http://debra.dgbt.doc.ca/

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr  3 05:57:56 1996
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Date: Wed, 3 Apr 96 10:57:56 EST
From: andrew@calvin.dgbt.doc.ca (Andrew Patrick)
Message-Id: <9604031557.AA24650@calvin.dgbt.doc.ca>
In-Reply-To: "Scott A. McIntyre" <smcintyre@whoi.edu>
       "Upside down audio?" (Apr  3, 10:17am)
Reply-To: andrew@calvin.dgbt.doc.ca
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: "Scott A. McIntyre" <smcintyre@whoi.edu>, <mbone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Upside down audio?
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On Apr 3, 10:17am, "Scott A. McIntyre" wrote:
} Subject: Upside down audio?
| 
| I've recently started experiencing a most peculiar problem.  In a VAT 
| (4.0a8) session between myself and someone else at my "site" we are only 
| able to exchange audio which is best compared with either the theme music 
| to a horror film (lots of screechy broken violins, with the occasional 
| low beat/rhythm for tension) or to the Battlestar Galactica villians the 
| Cylons.

This audio problem sounds a bit like something you might hear if one
person is using VAT and another RAT in redundancy mode.



-- 
           Andrew Patrick, Ph.D. <andrew@calvin.dgbt.doc.ca>
               Networks Services & Interfaces Laboratory
                     Communications Research Centre
                       http://debra.dgbt.doc.ca/

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr  3 01:18:36 1996
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To: andrew@calvin.dgbt.doc.ca
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: duplication in SDR announcements 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 03 Apr 96 07:57:08 PST."
             <9604031557.AA24617@calvin.dgbt.doc.ca> 
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 09:18:36 PST
From: Bill Fenner <fenner@parc.xerox.com>
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In message <9604031557.AA24617@calvin.dgbt.doc.ca> you write:
>I am seeing some duplication in the SDR announcements that 
>seems to be coming from two sites relaying info from
>the SD system.

Yup, sorry!  The gateway in the UK went down for a while so I turned mine
on on ames.dart.net; the duplicates are due to a bug in my gateway so I'll
turn it off.

  Bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr  3 06:28:40 1996
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From: Arlie Davis <arlie@thepoint.net>
To: "'mbone@isi.edu'" <mbone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: "'Mike Jung'" <mikej@thepoint.net>
Subject: SDP V1 vs. V2 and duplicate packets
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 11:28:40 -0500
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You might want to try my session directory.  It listens on both
multicast addresses.  (Optionally, you can disable the listener
for each of the multicast group/port pairs.)  It displays the 
protocol version and content version of each advertisement.
So, this doesn't eliminate duplicates, but it eliminates reliance
on a protocol converting gateway.  It's available at:

http://archive.thepoint.net/Internet/Interactive%20media/MBONE/SD/Win32/

-- arlie


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr  3 10:05:57 1996
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Subject: Upside down audio turned upside right.
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 96 15:05:57 -0500
From: "Scott A. McIntyre" <smcintyre@whoi.edu>
To: <mbone@ISI.EDU>
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The problem I reported earlier with the mangled audio streams has been 
partially fixed.

It turns out that if a session is created from scratch, either with sd or 
sdr, and vat (any version) is attached; the microphone only transmissions 
work fine.

What breaks it is the running of WorkMan 1.3 (and 1.4beta) -- as soon as 
workman starts playing and Vat grabs ahold of it (which it almost does 
automagically), the session becomes corrupted and nothing short of 
destroying the session in sd and starting a new one will fix it -- simply 
quitting and restarting won't do it.

Thanks to all that wrote to me with ideas; the bits and pieces all 
started to point to the possibility of something corrupting the session 
and sure enough, it seems to be WorkMan, at least on this machine with 
this OS.

I'll keep plugging at the WB problem though.

thanks again.

Scott


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr  4 02:05:43 1996
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From: "Peter Feil" <Peter.Feil@rus.uni-stuttgart.de>
Message-Id: <9604040005.ZM8070@kssun9.rus.uni-stuttgart.de>
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 00:05:43 +0200
In-Reply-To: Erik-Jan Bos <erik-jan.bos@surfnet.nl>
        "Re: tunnel to Hungarnet" (Apr  3,  5:27pm)
References: <8356.828545230@SURFnet.nl>
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95)
To: mbone@ISI.EDU, Erik-Jan Bos <erik-jan.bos@surfnet.nl>,
        Graeme.Wood@ucs.ed.ac.uk, mbone@kssun9.rus.uni-stuttgart.de
Subject: Re: tunnel to Hungarnet
Cc: mbone-eu@sics.se
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On Apr 3,  5:27pm, Erik-Jan Bos wrote:
> Subject: Re: tunnel to Hungarnet
>
> > > I've just given a look to the map of Europanet; it seems that HU is
directly
> > > connected to a router in Amsterdam. Maybe the host broodjeham.surfnet.nl
> > > could provide the feed you need.
> >
> > from the network topology point of view you are right.
> > But I am wondering if it is a good idea to load broodjeham
> > with one more tunnel: It has already more than 20 MBone
> > tunnels configured and we made the experience that more
> > than 10 tunnels on one mrouted are simply too much.
>
> Thanks for making my point, before I was able to make it :-).
>
> > Isn`t there a possibility to split up the tunnels at
> > surfnet and to use there more than one mrouted machine?
>
> Please ship one Sun SPARC 20 to me.
Did you ever ask any major workstation (or router) vendor
about this?
I am quite sure that it should be possible to get a sponsor
for the most important MBone node in Europe at the moment.
(we are very happy about having HP as sponsoring partner
 for the MERCI project; see
   http://www-mice.cs.ucl.ac.uk/mice/merci/    )  :-)))


On Apr 3,  4:31pm, Graeme Wood wrote:
> Yes but it does have multiple interfaces and it is a hefty machine so it
> should be able to cope with that load provided that the unicast routing
> routes the tunnels over the different physical interfaces. However, since
> there appears to be huge problems on the European Mbone at the moment, it
> may be that broodjeham is a place where the problems may be occuring.

Graeme,

thanks for making this point and sorry to all the other
receivers of this message in the world for broadening up this
local (European) discussion; but I think this is of general interest:

- it really looks like broodjeham.surfnet.nl is a bottleneck
  in the European Mbone at the moment; I hope that we can
  solve this thanks to some sponsors and/or to the availability
  of better network connections within Europe (there are
  some things going on: JAMES, TEN-34, MERCI, ...)
- we are running a Sun SparcStation 1000 with several network
  interfaces (including ATM) as MBone router for more than 2 months and
  we made the experience that more than 10Mbit/s of MBone
  traffic (in + out) make the system crash

--->
 - are there any experiences/studies on MBone/multicast performance
   for the systems available today?
 - does anyone know of any system that is capable of handling
   multicast traffic of more than 10Mbit/s ?

Best regards and happy Easter to everyone
--------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Feil
University of Stuttgart
National Supercomputing Center (RUS)
Communication Systems    phone : ++49-711-685 5735
Allmandring 30           fax   : ++49-711-678 7626
70550 Stuttgart          e-mail: feil@rus.uni-stuttgart.de
Germany
---------------------------------------------------------------

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr  3 10:34:11 1996
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Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 16:34:11 -0600 (CST)
From: "Paul S. Nazario" <nazario@guernsey.macc.wisc.edu>
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Some Newbie questions...
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Hi,

I'm trying to set up an MBONE feed between our campus and our ISP.  We 
have configured an MBONE tunnel which terminates at one of our campus 
Cisco routers.  

I'm having problems getting to the next step.  I have downloaded and 
installed Solaris_mc35+.2.5 package on my Sun IPX running Solaris 2.5.

I ran the install.multi package from this distribution and it created the 
files in /usr/multicast.  I have a lot of questions which I'm hoping some 
of you can answer:

1) Do very many of you use routers as the endpoint of your tunnels?  The 
FAQs seem to discuss using Unix systems almost exclusively.

2) Since my Unix system is just and end node and will not be routing, I 
don't need to run mrouted, right?

3) When I run SD (ver 1.14, 1.19) I don't see any items show up?  What 
are some of the possible reasons or ways to explore why this isn't working.

If you need to see my Tunnel definition, or other information please let 
me know.

Thanks, 
Paul


//----------------------------------------------------------\\
|  Paul Nazario                      nazario@doit.wisc.edu   |
|  University of Wisconsin             phone: 608-262-2595   |
|  Division of Information Technology    fax: 608-265-6453   |
|  Network Engineering Technology                            |
\\----------------------------------------------------------//



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr  4 03:40:58 1996
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To: "Peter Feil" <Peter.Feil@rus.uni-stuttgart.de>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU, Erik-Jan Bos <erik-jan.bos@surfnet.nl>,
        Graeme.Wood@ucs.ed.ac.uk, mbone@kssun9.rus.uni-stuttgart.de,
        mbone-eu@sics.se, e93_mda@it.kth.se
Subject: Re: tunnel to Hungarnet 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 04 Apr 1996 00:05:43 +0200."
             <9604040005.ZM8070@kssun9.rus.uni-stuttgart.de> 
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 01:40:58 +0200
From: Magnus <e93_mda@it.kth.se>
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> On Apr 3,  5:27pm, Erik-Jan Bos wrote:
> > Subject: Re: tunnel to Hungarnet
> >
> > > > I've just given a look to the map of Europanet; it seems that HU is
> directly
> > > > connected to a router in Amsterdam. Maybe the host broodjeham.surfnet.nl
> > > > could provide the feed you need.
> > >
> > > from the network topology point of view you are right.
> > > But I am wondering if it is a good idea to load broodjeham
> > > with one more tunnel: It has already more than 20 MBone
> > > tunnels configured and we made the experience that more
> > > than 10 tunnels on one mrouted are simply too much.
> >
> > Thanks for making my point, before I was able to make it :-).
> >
> > > Isn`t there a possibility to split up the tunnels at
> > > surfnet and to use there more than one mrouted machine?
> >
> > Please ship one Sun SPARC 20 to me.
> Did you ever ask any major workstation (or router) vendor
> about this?
> I am quite sure that it should be possible to get a sponsor
> for the most important MBone node in Europe at the moment.
> (we are very happy about having HP as sponsoring partner
>  for the MERCI project; see
>    http://www-mice.cs.ucl.ac.uk/mice/merci/    )  :-)))

Yes. Not only HP can contribute with workstations, but this is not the way to
build the Mbone in the long run.... there is still only a handfull of points in
the topology where it is the multicast router speed which is the bottleneck
compared to that of slow and saturated links.

Broodjeham and possibly also mbone.cern.ch is the only major boxes that I know
of that have had this problem.
If there is some point where you would have many connections (not necessarily
tunnels) that needs to be interconnected I think that they should be hooked to
a few boxes (possibly REAL routers) and these should be interconnected with
native multicast on a ethernet or FDDI. Native multicast as forwarding 
mechanism
scales much better than haveing that forwarding done by a CPU.

What we should consider is how to make proper exchange points of Mbone traffic
instead of a series of crippled solutions. There is an tendensy towards 
commercial traffic on the Mbone so we should start prepareing the topology for
a production state. Haveing it _just_ working is not good enogth, we should
think on how to be able to expand it in the same way as in the unicast world.

> On Apr 3,  4:31pm, Graeme Wood wrote:
> > Yes but it does have multiple interfaces and it is a hefty machine so it
> > should be able to cope with that load provided that the unicast routing
> > routes the tunnels over the different physical interfaces. However, since
> > there appears to be huge problems on the European Mbone at the moment, it
> > may be that broodjeham is a place where the problems may be occuring.
> 
> Graeme,
> 
> thanks for making this point and sorry to all the other
> receivers of this message in the world for broadening up this
> local (European) discussion; but I think this is of general interest:
> 
> - it really looks like broodjeham.surfnet.nl is a bottleneck
>   in the European Mbone at the moment; I hope that we can
>   solve this thanks to some sponsors and/or to the availability
>   of better network connections within Europe (there are
>   some things going on: JAMES, TEN-34, MERCI, ...)

Broodjeham is one of the bottlenecks, and yes it should be splitted into two
boxes at least, but is broodjeham the ideal box topology wise for Amsterdam?

> - we are running a Sun SparcStation 1000 with several network
>   interfaces (including ATM) as MBone router for more than 2 months and
>   we made the experience that more than 10Mbit/s of MBone
>   traffic (in + out) make the system crash

When you have a high traffic load and now a new "high-bandwidth" stream comes
in it will be duplicated onto every other VIF, since it is not yet pruned off.
Maybe it's time to demostrate this by actually create such a situation.

The CPU switching that workstations provide is certainly limited in bandwidth
when more VIFs are involved. This is just one of the scalability problems of
DVMRP (and similar protocols like PIM-DM).

> 
> --->
>  - are there any experiences/studies on MBone/multicast performance
>    for the systems available today?
>  - does anyone know of any system that is capable of handling
>    multicast traffic of more than 10Mbit/s ?

Ever tried a bunch of Cisco's sitting on a multicast dedicated FDDI useing
native multicast?

I will make a test to kill one of my Cisco's off.

I know however that a SS10 will not survive pumping a 7 Mbps stream through it
in eather unicast or multicast (still point-to-point) without packet drops.
This may be due to the non-realtime aspects of the OS. You will need an OS 
which
has propper streamlined IP stack as well as good realtime support inside the
kernel process(es). Normal workstations does not have that yet. Doing the same
test over an Cisco 4500 comes out nicely despite the fact that the Cisco's CPU
(an R4000) is switching the packets.

It's not allways CPU power, that's my point. Propper design is better.

Magnus



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr  3 09:05:28 1996
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To: "Paul S. Nazario" <nazario@guernsey.macc.wisc.edu>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Some Newbie questions... 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 03 Apr 96 14:34:11 PST."
             <Pine.SOL.3.91.960403162640.1304J-100000@guernsey.macc.wisc.edu> 
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:05:28 PST
From: Bill Fenner <fenner@parc.xerox.com>
Message-Id: <96Apr3.170529pst.177475@crevenia.parc.xerox.com>
Sender: owner-mbone@ISI.EDU
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In message <Pine.SOL.3.91.960403162640.1304J-100000@guernsey.macc.wisc.edu> you
 write:
>2) Since my Unix system is just and end node and will not be routing, I 
>don't need to run mrouted, right?

Right.

>3) When I run SD (ver 1.14, 1.19) I don't see any items show up?  What 
>are some of the possible reasons or ways to explore why this isn't working.

If your host is multihomed, make sure that you have a route for net 224
pointing to a subnet with a multicast router attached to it.

On your multicast router, make sure that it knows about your host's
group membership, and that its tunnel is considered to be up.
Use "snoop" or some other network monitoring tool to see if the router
is sending out IGMP queries and if your host is responding to them.

  Bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr  3 12:18:18 1996
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Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 20:18:18 -0800 (PST)
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To: mbone@ISI.EDU, rem-conf@es.net
From: max@atg.apple.com (Mark Q. Maxham)
Subject: MBone for Mac 1.0a4 available
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Apple's MBone 1.0a2 software was made available for the Grammys, back at
the beginning of March.  Those packages have expired.  To get the latest,
see

        http://devtools.apple.com/qtc/

So far the application is receive-only, and the documentation is lousy.
However, 1.0a4 has many improvements over 1.0a2; in addition to vat and
RTPv1, 1.0a4 speaks RTPv2, decodes H.261 (if you've got a PowerMac), plus
NV, JPEG, PCM, and GSM.

To reduce mass-mailing-list traffic, I maintain my own Apple MBone
distribution list.  To get on the Apple MBone list, send mail to
mbonetv@apple.com.

max



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Apr  5 02:17:45 1996
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Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:17:45 +1000
From: chris@vislab.usyd.edu.au (Chris Willing)
Message-Id: <199604040617.QAA11453@redgate.vislab.usyd.edu.au>
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: invalid origin
Sender: owner-mbone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO


Can anyone decipher the following warning message, multiple copies of which
filling my SYSLOG at the rate of 6 to 8 per minute. There are about 6-8
different hosts referred to in these warnings. First message was
Mar 26 20:26 (Aust Daylight Saving Time).

Apr  4 16:07:09 4D:redgate mrouted[8542]: warning - 129.78.64.5 reports an invalid origin (193.167.64.0) and/or mask (fffffe00)

redgate is our end of a tunnel to 129.78.64.5. Our end is an SGI with IRIX 5.3
but mrouted version unknown (came with IRIX 5.3).


chris
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  Chris Willing                  Telephone   (61-2) 351 3914              |
|  VisLab, A28                    Facsimile   (61-2) 660 2903              |
|  University of Sydney           email       chris@vislab.usyd.edu.au     |
|  NSW 2006 Australia             http://www.vislab.usyd.edu.au/           |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr  4 14:14:13 1996
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From: Christian DONOT <Christian.Donot@inria.fr>
Message-Id: <199604041014.AA25386@electre.inria.fr>
Subject: Re: MAE-BONE is down
To: fedor@msf.psi.net (Mark S. Fedor)
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 12:14:13 +0200 (MET DST)
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <9603061725.AA02835@msf.psi.net.> from "Mark S. Fedor" at Mar 6, 96 12:25:23 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22]
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Quoting > Mark S. Fedor wrote, on Wed, 06 Mar 1996 12:25:23 -0500
> 
> MAE-bone.psi.net is off of the network.  there is a problem with its connection
> to the 10Mbps MAE-East.  MFS has been notified and they are working on the
> problem.
> 
> It has been down since 10:00 EST.  No ETR.
> 
Dear Mark Fedor

Does MAE-bone.psi.net always off of the network ? it doesn't answer !
ping mae-bone.psi.net.edf.fr
no answer from mae-bone.psi.net

Best regards.

Christian
-- 
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
			  Christian Donot
	  Direction of Research Promotion and its Transfer
			  =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
* INRIA's Activities Demonstrations Manager (DPRT)
* French Multicast Bone Co-ordinator (mbone-fr@inria.fr) (ARISTOTE)
  To get "mbone-fr" map :
	    ftp anonymous from electre.inria.fr:pub/mbone
	    ftp anonymous from ftp.inria.fr:network/mbone/map
* To get "ivs"  : (INRIA) 
	    ftp anonymous from zenon.inria.fr:rodeo/ivs/last_version
	    http://www.inria.fr/rodeo/ivs.html
* To get "telesia"  : (Aristote) 
	    ftp anonymous from electre.inria.fr:pub/videoconf/last_version
			  =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Tel	: +33 1 39 63 57 75		| INRIA/DPRT/ARISTOTE
Fax	: +33 1 39 63 55 34/53 30	| BP 105
Email	: Christian.Donot@inria.fr	| 78153 LE CHESNAY CEDEX
	: chd@inria.fr			| FRANCE
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr  4 05:53:15 1996
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From: Dave Thaler <thalerd@eecs.umich.edu>
Message-Id: <199604041553.KAA26101@dip.eecs.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Some Newbie questions...
To: nazario@guernsey.macc.wisc.edu
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 10:53:15 -0500 (EST)
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <96Apr3.170529pst.177475@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> from "Bill Fenner" at Apr 3, 96 05:05:28 pm
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Bill Fenner writes:
> In message <Pine.SOL.3.91.960403162640.1304J-100000@guernsey.macc.wisc.edu> you
>  write:
> >3) When I run SD (ver 1.14, 1.19) I don't see any items show up?  What 
> >are some of the possible reasons or ways to explore why this isn't working.
[...]
> Use "snoop" or some other network monitoring tool to see if the router
> is sending out IGMP queries and if your host is responding to them.

If his host is guernsey.macc.wisc.edu, then the situation is even easier,
since the DR (144.92.128.126) is a cisco router supporting SNMP.
So if you have mstat, you can just do "mstat -nl 144.92.128.126" after 
starting sd and see if there's a line for group 224.2.127.255 (or 
224.2.127.254 for sdr), which will show guernsey as the member if its the
only one running sd(r).  For older versions of mstat, the equivalent
option is -ng instead of -nl.

Dave Thaler

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr  4 07:19:51 1996
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Reply-To: stewart@hibp7.ecse.rpi.edu
To: Christian DONOT <Christian.Donot@inria.fr>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: MAE-BONE is down 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 04 Apr 1996 12:14:13 +0200."
             <199604041014.AA25386@electre.inria.fr> 
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Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 12:19:51 -0500
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In message <199604041014.AA25386@electre.inria.fr>, Christian DONOT 
writes:
>Quoting > Mark S. Fedor wrote, on Wed, 06 Mar 1996 12:25:23 -0500
>> 
>> MAE-bone.psi.net is off of the network.  there is a problem with 
its connect
>ion
>> to the 10Mbps MAE-East.  MFS has been notified and they are 
working on the
>> problem.
>> 
>> It has been down since 10:00 EST.  No ETR.
>> 
>Dear Mark Fedor
>
>Does MAE-bone.psi.net always off of the network ? it doesn't answer !
>ping mae-bone.psi.net.edf.fr
>no answer from mae-bone.psi.net

It is my understanding that mae-bone doesn't have a default route, so it can  only reach specific hosts such as its peer mrouters.  This implies that pinging it won't work from your machine, even if mae-bone is running.

--
Paul



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr  4 01:35:49 1996
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X-Authentication-Warning: ace.cisco.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Cc: deering@parc.xerox.com, ajit@udel.edu
Subject: Multicast, SunOS 4.1.3_U1, and Sun FastEthernet
Organization: Advanced Customer Systems, Cisco Systems Inc., San Jose, CA
Zippy-Sez: Am I in GRADUATE SCHOOL yet?
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 09:35:49 -0800
From: John Stewart <jns@cisco.com>
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Status: RO



I'm looking for any help, thoughts, assistance.

SunOS 4.1.3_U1
Xerox Parc IPMULTI 3.5
Sun FastEthernet driver


Sun is still using the addmultiaddr and delmultiaddr calls in their
SunOS drivers, so similar to the FDDI problems of the past, the SunOS
driver and the multicast patches result in a kernel which won't like
due to undefined symbols.

Is anyone else doing this, trying this, or has fixed this? I've
escalated it with Sun, and that is *not* going smoothly at all. If
nothing else, I'd like to build a business case for it.

Please respond to jns@cisco.com   -- thx for any and all help.

--J
	
John Stewart       Systems Administrator/Web Developer  Email: jns@cisco.com
Adv. Customer Systems       Where no one                Phone: +1.408.526.8499
Cisco Systems, Inc.       has gone before...            FAX:   +1.408.526.8787


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr  4 06:40:55 1996
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Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 12:40:55 -0600
From: Matt Crawford <crawdad@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: Multicast, SunOS 4.1.3_U1, and Sun FastEthernet
In-Reply-To: "04 Apr 1996 09:35:49 PST." <"199604041735.JAA01987"@ace.cisco.com>
To: John Stewart <jns@cisco.com>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU, deering@parc.xerox.com, ajit@udel.edu
Message-Id: <199604041840.MAA16691@munin.fnal.gov>
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X-Face: 
 /RKQi"kntyd}7l)d8n%'Dum<~(aMW3,5g&'NiH5I4Jj|wT:j;Qa$!@A<~/*C:{:MmAQ:o%S /KKi}G4_.||4I[9!{%3]Hd"a*E{<k&QF?d6L7o&zLqb%kXn!!]ykXMKtTiy9#20]$EKP/^Z$T]'P6,
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John,

I have the Sun 100bT card also.  (Device "be0" -- I hear Sun is
making a different one now.)  There are multicast versions of
if_bqe.o and if_qec.o in the multicast "release3.5" directory.

However, with these drivers, whenever I join or leave a multicast
group, I can hear a relay click on the 100bT board and the interface
goes down and up.  This was on a Grand Junction switch, whatever you
lot are calling that box now.
					Matt

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr  4 02:51:44 1996
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To: chris@vislab.usyd.edu.au (Chris Willing)
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: invalid origin 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 04 Apr 1996 16:17:45 +1000."
             <199604040617.QAA11453@redgate.vislab.usyd.edu.au> 
X-Face: #LKvtHE!M@StlYhO49AAd)7-Auiwd8XM;W0p8,4!$Dw4291RWt;Y$?_6B_,VC]0F+_R"Nkq;K/XJ*xRmNiSOj<Sk3fi$0;ZaZHmt@wYT52BH&DS.z|A'HYkC##|~8I$*}/Y>cY#cpqj-+[CaUY|qUJT0*$=}X43bBd9IH?WWm&E1G\rdvP5.DVTePe%|;=*p5
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Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 10:51:44 -0800
From: "Danny J. Mitzel" <mitzel@ipsilon.com>
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Status: RO

On Thursday, April 04th 1996 at 16:17 +1000,
in message <199604040617.QAA11453@redgate.vislab.usyd.edu.au>
Chris Willing writes:

>> Can anyone decipher the following warning message, multiple copies of which
>> filling my SYSLOG at the rate of 6 to 8 per minute. There are about 6-8
>> different hosts referred to in these warnings. First message was
>> Mar 26 20:26 (Aust Daylight Saving Time).
>> 
>> Apr  4 16:07:09 4D:redgate mrouted[8542]: warning - 129.78.64.5 reports an i
 > nvalid origin (193.167.64.0) and/or mask (fffffe00)
>> 
>> redgate is our end of a tunnel to 129.78.64.5. Our end is an SGI with IRIX 5
 > .3
>> but mrouted version unknown (came with IRIX 5.3).

as near as I can tell the subnet and mask above look fine to the latest
versions of mrouted which support classes routing.  note that the above
subnet and mask looks like a supernetted range of class C addresses.  maybe
an older version of mrouted [pre-3.5?] would barf on this.  what version is 
reported in your syslog at mrouted startup or via mrinfo?

good luck!
danny


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr  4 02:52:10 1996
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To: chris@vislab.usyd.edu.au (Chris Willing)
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: invalid origin 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 04 Apr 1996 16:17:45 +1000."
             <199604040617.QAA11453@redgate.vislab.usyd.edu.au> 
X-Face: #LKvtHE!M@StlYhO49AAd)7-Auiwd8XM;W0p8,4!$Dw4291RWt;Y$?_6B_,VC]0F+_R"Nkq;K/XJ*xRmNiSOj<Sk3fi$0;ZaZHmt@wYT52BH&DS.z|A'HYkC##|~8I$*}/Y>cY#cpqj-+[CaUY|qUJT0*$=}X43bBd9IH?WWm&E1G\rdvP5.DVTePe%|;=*p5
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Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 10:52:10 -0800
From: "Danny J. Mitzel" <mitzel@ipsilon.com>
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On Thursday, April 04th 1996 at 16:17 +1000,
in message <199604040617.QAA11453@redgate.vislab.usyd.edu.au>
Chris Willing writes:

>> 
>> Can anyone decipher the following warning message, multiple copies of which
>> filling my SYSLOG at the rate of 6 to 8 per minute. There are about 6-8
>> different hosts referred to in these warnings. First message was
>> Mar 26 20:26 (Aust Daylight Saving Time).
>> 
>> Apr  4 16:07:09 4D:redgate mrouted[8542]: warning - 129.78.64.5 reports an i
 > nvalid origin (193.167.64.0) and/or mask (fffffe00)
>> 
>> redgate is our end of a tunnel to 129.78.64.5. Our end is an SGI with IRIX 5
 > .3
>> but mrouted version unknown (came with IRIX 5.3).
>> 
>> 
>> chris
>> +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
>> |  Chris Willing                  Telephone   (61-2) 351 3914              |
>> |  VisLab, A28                    Facsimile   (61-2) 660 2903              |
>> |  University of Sydney           email       chris@vislab.usyd.edu.au     |
>> |  NSW 2006 Australia             http://www.vislab.usyd.edu.au/           |
>> +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
>> 


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr  4 09:40:02 1996
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From: dbeavers@barque.mdcorp.ksc.nasa.gov (Daniel Beavers)
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Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:40:02 -0500
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To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: White Sands Missle Range (WSMR) feed?
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I am wondering if there is an MBone connection at WSMR?  The DC-XA flight
tests, that are coming up in May, would be of real interest to a significant
number of people.  Anyone at WSMR want to talk?

-- 
Daniel Beavers, 
Daniel.Beavers-1@ksc.nasa.gov, Voice: 407/383-2877, Fax: 407/269-6202,
McDonnell Douglas, PO Box 21233, Dep F164, Kennedy Space Ctr, FL 32815

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr  4 04:02:45 1996
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To: "Danny J. Mitzel" <mitzel@ipsilon.com>
Cc: chris@vislab.usyd.edu.au (Chris Willing), mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: invalid origin 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 04 Apr 96 10:52:10 PST."
             <199604041851.KAA04459@mailhost.Ipsilon.COM> 
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 12:02:45 PST
From: Bill Fenner <fenner@parc.xerox.com>
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On Thursday, April 04th 1996 at 16:17 +1000,
in message <199604040617.QAA11453@redgate.vislab.usyd.edu.au>
Chris Willing writes:
> Apr  4 16:07:09 4D:redgate mrouted[8542]: warning - 129.78.64.5 reports an 
> invalid origin (193.167.64.0) and/or mask (fffffe00)

This is a pre-3.5 mrouted complaining about a CIDR advertisement.  You
need to upgrade your mrouted (which means upgrading your kernel) to get
these messages to go away.

The appropriate patches are available from ftp.sgi.com, in
sgi/ipmcast/IRIX5/5.3/mrouted3.8.tar.Z .

  Bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr  4 16:57:45 1996
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To: chris@vislab.usyd.edu.au, "Danny J. Mitzel" <mitzel@ipsilon.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: invalid origin 
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     pls take me off this list
     rickie singleton
     


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: invalid origin 
Author:  "Danny J. Mitzel" <mitzel@ipsilon.com> at internet
Date:    4/4/96 9:20 PM


On Thursday, April 04th 1996 at 16:17 +1000,
in message <199604040617.QAA11453@redgate.vislab.usyd.edu.au> 
Chris Willing writes:
     
>> 
>> Can anyone decipher the following warning message, multiple copies of which 
>> filling my SYSLOG at the rate of 6 to 8 per minute. There are about 6-8
>> different hosts referred to in these warnings. First message was 
>> Mar 26 20:26 (Aust Daylight Saving Time).
>> 
>> Apr  4 16:07:09 4D:redgate mrouted[8542]: warning - 129.78.64.5 reports an i
 > nvalid origin (193.167.64.0) and/or mask (fffffe00)
>> 
>> redgate is our end of a tunnel to 129.78.64.5. Our end is an SGI with IRIX 5
 > .3
>> but mrouted version unknown (came with IRIX 5.3). 
>> 
>> 
>> chris
>> +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ 
>> |  Chris Willing                  Telephone   (61-2) 351 3914              | 
>> |  VisLab, A28                    Facsimile   (61-2) 660 2903              | 
>> |  University of Sydney           email       chris@vislab.usyd.edu.au     | 
>> |  NSW 2006 Australia             http://www.vislab.usyd.edu.au/           | 
>> +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ 
>> 
     


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Apr  5 06:04:57 1996
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Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 14:04:57 -0800
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To: chris@vislab.usyd.edu.au
Subject: Re: invalid origin [really sgi mrouted]
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> The appropriate patches are available from ftp.sgi.com, in
> ftp://ftp.sgi.com/sgi/ipmcast/IRIX5/5.3/mrouted3.8.tar.Z

Or if you want bits that are "official", get patch 1092 for
IRIX 5.3, or just use IRIX 6.2 which is now "released". It
might take some time for all the IRIX 6.2 CDs to get out
to the field. Please do not ask me for them; contact your
service representative.

There was a bug in the rate limiting multi-processor locking
which is being fixed in patch 1247, in progress.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Apr  6 06:56:53 1996
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From: lal@cis.ksu.edu (Ashish Lal)
Message-Id:  <199604061856.MAA01419@aleph.cis.ksu.edu>
Subject: nv
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 12:56:53 -0600 (CST)
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I am looking for the source code for nv. Where can I get it from ?
--Ashish Lal

_________________________________________________________________________

e-mail    : lal@cis.ksu.edu                        ph # (off):(913)-532-6350
Home page : http://www.cis.ksu.edu/~lal/                (Res):(913)-776-8162

		Dept. of Computing and Info Sciences
		234, Nichols Hall,
		Kansas State University
		Manhattan KS-66502

_________________________________________________________________________

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Apr  6 12:25:37 1996
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From: "Mark A. Fullmer" <maf@net.ohio-state.edu>
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Subject: routehog
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 17:25:37 -0500 (EST)
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Someone is flooding the MBone again with full unicast routing tables.

Started
	Apr  4 23:06:54 EST

Continues 
	Apr  5 04:30:13 EST
	Apr  5 11:21:44 EST
	Apr  5 16:54:29	EST
	Apr  5 23:12:46 EST
	Apr  6 05:15:02 EST
	Apr  6 11:06:49 EST
	Apr  6 16:54:45 EST

Adding a 'maxprefixes' option to the 'ip dvmrp metric' command that defaults to something
sane like 10 would really help things.

--
mark

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Apr  6 13:01:39 1996
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From: lal@cis.ksu.edu (Ashish Lal)
Message-Id:  <199604070101.TAA07974@depot.cis.ksu.edu>
Subject: Re: nv
To: frederic@parc.xerox.com (Ron Frederick)
Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 19:01:39 -0600 (CST)
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <96Apr6.162427pst.16136@ecco.parc.xerox.com> from "Ron Frederick" at Apr 6, 96 04:24:16 pm
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I am trying to read your source code I got from nv.tar.Z from the ftp site
you gave.
Most of the *.c files donot contain commenting. Is there any help available ?
I am reading it for the first time and sometimes it gets difficult to
comprehend what's goingt's going on.
Here's what I intend to do - 
My deptt. has certain multicast models that were implemented in the past.
These models accept transmissions
in the form of jpeg, mpeg or cellB. I need to somehow connect these
models to nv. For this I have to add some modules to nv and then compile
it again or I would have to modify some of the code already in nv. I shall
figure the right way as I continue to read the code.
I would then use these models to give me  the burstiness of the traffic and
delay between 2 bursts etc.
Some documentation on the modules in nv would help.
--Ashish Lal

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Apr  6 16:59:23 1996
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Date: Sat, 6 Apr 96 21:59:23 -0500
From: kyriann@acf2.NYU.EDU (Jimmy Kyriannis)
Message-Id: <9604070259.AA10899@acf2.NYU.EDU>
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Multicast address use in software development
Cc: jimmy.kyriannis@nyu.edu
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So far, I've been unable to find anything on the Net that discusses the use of
IP multicast addresses in non-conferencing software development.  (I apologize
for the great number of questions, but this seems to be the proper forum to
discuss them.)  RFC1918 doesn't indicate any IP multicast addresses reserved by
the IANA for private enterprise use, nor does the IANA multicast address list
indicate a group of addresses that are free for use in developing software.
It seems to me that arbitrary use of multicast addresses when developing
software can lead to conflicts with ones used during MBONE conferences, at the
very least.

Could someone please point me towards a reference that indicates the proper
procedure for the use of an IP multicast address for software development for
private enterprise and/or commercial use.  Would an IP multicast address have
to be aquired from IANA in either case and registered with them, much as is
the SGI DogFight address?

In an MBONE-connected network environment, would the *route* to that multicast
group (not the data of the members participating in the multicast group)
propagate out to the MBONE if the IP TTL of packets using the address were
less that 16?  If so, then do explicit access list have to be placed in
multicast routers to prevent this from ocurring?  Finally, what if a user of
the application wished to use the MBONE for transport to other campuses?  Is
there a precedent for permitting the use of non-conferencing applications on
the MBONE, and if so, how is such an event scheduled?  Otherwise, I assume,
private multicast tunnels would have to be established to join the campuses
in a private MBONE.

Thanks very much.


Jimmy

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Apr  8 02:29:49 1996
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Date: Mon, 08 Apr 1996 09:29:49 -0700
To: kyriann@acf2.NYU.EDU (Jimmy Kyriannis), mbone@ISI.EDU
From: sajit@dcsd.sj.nec.com (Sajit Bhaskaran)
Subject: Re: Multicast address use in software development
Cc: jimmy.kyriannis@nyu.edu
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Sounds like this is something that either this forum or idmr should address
- imho it appears that a block of 'private-enterprise only' multicast
addresses would be a good thing. I too am interested in hearing what others
feel about this. Thanks. 
Sajit


At 09:59 PM 4/6/96 -0500, Jimmy Kyriannis wrote:
>
>So far, I've been unable to find anything on the Net that discusses the use of
>IP multicast addresses in non-conferencing software development.  (I apologize
>for the great number of questions, but this seems to be the proper forum to
>discuss them.)  RFC1918 doesn't indicate any IP multicast addresses reserved by
>the IANA for private enterprise use, nor does the IANA multicast address list
>indicate a group of addresses that are free for use in developing software.
>It seems to me that arbitrary use of multicast addresses when developing
>software can lead to conflicts with ones used during MBONE conferences, at the
>very least.
>
>Could someone please point me towards a reference that indicates the proper
>procedure for the use of an IP multicast address for software development for
>private enterprise and/or commercial use.  Would an IP multicast address have
>to be aquired from IANA in either case and registered with them, much as is
>the SGI DogFight address?
>
>In an MBONE-connected network environment, would the *route* to that multicast
>group (not the data of the members participating in the multicast group)
>propagate out to the MBONE if the IP TTL of packets using the address were
>less that 16?  If so, then do explicit access list have to be placed in
>multicast routers to prevent this from ocurring?  Finally, what if a user of
>the application wished to use the MBONE for transport to other campuses?  Is
>there a precedent for permitting the use of non-conferencing applications on
>the MBONE, and if so, how is such an event scheduled?  Otherwise, I assume,
>private multicast tunnels would have to be established to join the campuses
>in a private MBONE.
>
>Thanks very much.
>
>
>Jimmy
>
>


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr  9 16:11:22 1996
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Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 16:11:22 +0000
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
From: Stefano Giordano <giordano@iet.unipi.it>
Subject: HP A4049A DESKTOP VIDEO HARDWARE CODEC
Cc: orlandi@ISI.EDU
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Dear all,
did anyone use the HP A4049A DESKTOP VIDEO HARDWARE CODEC on the MBONE, I
know it can run with COMMUNIQUE 4.0 but I don't know if Communique has
multicast IP capabilities and if it can be compatible with the other MBONE
tools video format. Do anyone used it sending IP video streams over ATM?

Thank you a lot in advance
                                Stefano



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From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr  9 18:17:36 1996
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To: mbone@ISI.EDU
From: baque@cict.fr (Philippe =?iso-8859-1?Q?BAQU=C9?= )
Subject: Re: HP A4049A DESKTOP VIDEO HARDWARE CODEC
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At 17:11 9/04/96, Stefano Giordano wrote:

>Dear all,
>did anyone use the HP A4049A DESKTOP VIDEO HARDWARE CODEC on the MBONE, I
>know it can run with COMMUNIQUE 4.0 but I don't know if Communique has
>multicast IP capabilities and if it can be compatible with the other MBONE
>tools video format. Do anyone used it sending IP video streams over ATM?
>

 I have exactly the same question about HP DESKTOP VIDEO, If HP is
listening this question ??

>Thank you a lot in advance

 me too, ... Stefano If you have any responses (directly) could you reflect
it on this LIST (thank you very much).




-Philippe

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_/                               _/_/_/                             _/
_/  Philippe BAQUE                 _/     tel  :(+33) 61 36 60 17   _/
_/  Responsable Formations CICT    _/     fax  :(+33) 61 52 14 58   _/
_/  CICT                           _/                               _/
_/  118, route de Narbonne         _/  Internet: baque@cict.fr      _/
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From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr  9 07:39:25 1996
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To: mbone@ISI.EDU
From: "Brett D. Watson" <bwatson@mci.net>
Reply-To: bwatson@mci.net
Subject: multicasting for win95
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  i've picked up some software i saw discussed here for windows 95 but the 
part i'm missing is how to make windows95 multicast aware.  is there a set of 
patches?  is there a replacement stack?  or some other software package?

  i've searched the web and mailing lists high and low but haven't come up 
with anything.  i don't seem to remember anyone here explicitly stating how to 
do it, only that the mbone type tools are available.  apologies if i missed 
this somewhere.

-brett


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr  9 12:00:30 1996
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Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 17:00:30 -0500 (CDT)
From: Mark Donnelly <mark@tiger.coe.missouri.edu>
To: "Brett D. Watson" <bwatson@mci.net>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: multicasting for win95
In-Reply-To: <199604091539.LAA14097@topaz.cary.mci.net>
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Brett:

>   i've picked up some software i saw discussed here for windows 95 but the
> part i'm missing is how to make windows95 multicast aware.  is there a set of
> patches?  is there a replacement stack?  or some other software package?

Win95 (or so I've been told) doesn't need any replacement stack; the stack
that comes with it (if it's anything like the WinNT stack as far back as
Workstation 3.5) should receive multicast traffic by itself.

I'd suggest downloading Arlie Davis' SD program (as a windowing program or
as a console app, if it's still available).  That was the first thing to
be ported over to the Windows platform that I know of, and there's a lot
less that can go wrong with it.

If you don't get anything there, my next suggestion would be to make sure
that you have a multicast router (an mrouted) on your subnet.  If you
don't have a UNIX box running an mrouted or the right types of routers &
router software, you can multicast till you're blue in the face, but you
won't get anywhere outside of your local subnet.

--Mark
"How may I be honest with you today?"
  Tuvok, ST:VOY



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Apr  8 10:04:09 1996
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To: bwatson@mci.net
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Subject: Re: multicasting for win95
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Brett D. Watson wrote:
> 
>   i've picked up some software i saw discussed here for windows 95 but the
> part i'm missing is how to make windows95 multicast aware.  is there a set of
> patches?  is there a replacement stack?  or some other software package?
> 
>   i've searched the web and mailing lists high and low but haven't come up
> with anything.  i don't seem to remember anyone here explicitly stating how to
> do it, only that the mbone type tools are available.  apologies if i missed
> this somewhere.
> 
> -brett

Built-in TCP/IP of the Win95 and NT3.51 supports IP multicast extension. 
therefore no problems.

if you need test this capability ,you should use Winsock function "setsockopt()" 
and "struct ip_mreq".

	struct ip_mreq	mgrp;

	mgrp.imr_multiaddr = //multicast address;
	mgrp.imr_interface.s_addr = htons( INADDR_ANY );

	if( setsockopt( sock, IPPROTO_IP, IP_ADD_MEMBERSHIP, (char*)&mgrp, 	
	sizeof(mgrp) ) )
	{
		MessageBox( 0, "setsockopt: sock","Network Error", MB_OK );
	}

	// Note : Win95 does not support loopback control 
	// 
In "winsock.h" in Visual C++ 2.0 ,4.0 you see "IP_ADD_MEMBERSHIP", 
"IP_DROP_MEMEBERSHIP", etc. 

Note : Win95 does not support loopback control 
       after "recv() call", filtering procedure is needed. 

Good-luck.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr 10 01:21:04 1996
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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 05:21:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Chris Robson ATDNet Admin <crobson@dia.dia.mil>
To: Stefano Giordano <giordano@iet.unipi.it>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU, orlandi@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: HP A4049A DESKTOP VIDEO HARDWARE CODEC
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Stefano

Communique 4.1 uses multicast for both video and audio (Speaker Phone).  
The multicast address is hard coded into the system (i.e I think it uses 
224.77.0.0 range).  I was trying to get them to use SD for addresses access.
We are trying to get Insoft to finish development of thier ATM interface 
but it seems Netscape who purchased Insoft wants (and is ) killing the 
ATM effort.  I understand this is a real shame because the Insoft C! ATM 
demos show great promise for one heck of a VTC system.  There also is a 
VIC implementation of a Fore ATM API which I'm currently trying to build 
to do some testing.

...chris

On Tue, 9 Apr 1996, Stefano Giordano wrote:

> Dear all,
> did anyone use the HP A4049A DESKTOP VIDEO HARDWARE CODEC on the MBONE, I
> know it can run with COMMUNIQUE 4.0 but I don't know if Communique has
> multicast IP capabilities and if it can be compatible with the other MBONE
> tools video format. Do anyone used it sending IP video streams over ATM?
> 
> Thank you a lot in advance
>                                 Stefano
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------     
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From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr 10 09:23:54 1996
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To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: strange warning messages
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 13:23:54 -0400
From: Bill Niester <niester@math.lsa.umich.edu>
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Hi.  I have a strange problem that has been occuring lately.  It seems
to have begun right about the time I started using an MBone capable
kernel.  I am running the ipmulti3.5 kernel with mrouted 3.8 on a 
SunOS 4.1.4 system running X11R6pl13.

The error I get about every 15 minutes in my console (and it is filling
my /var/log/warning file as well) is the following:

Apr 10 10:50:44  vmunix: xxxInit: fcode=-1072671230
Apr 10 11:05:44  vmunix: xxxInit: fcode=-1072671230
Apr 10 11:20:45  vmunix: xxxInit: fcode=-1072671230
Apr 10 11:35:46  vmunix: xxxInit: fcode=-1072671230
Apr 10 11:50:47  vmunix: xxxInit: fcode=-1072671230
Apr 10 12:05:47  vmunix: xxxInit: fcode=-1072671230
Apr 10 12:20:48  vmunix: xxxInit: fcode=-1072671230


Any clues?  Might this have something to do with the multicast support
in the kernel.

	Thanks,

		Bill


====================================================================
   Bill Niester		  	   Email: niester@umich.edu
   The University of Michigan 	   Phone: (313) 763-1182
   Mathematics Department	   Pager: (313) 958-2498
   Systems Manager		   Address: Rm 426 West Engineering
 					    Ann Arbor, MI  48109
=============(http://www.math.lsa.umich.edu/~niester)===============

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr 10 05:11:13 1996
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To: Bill Niester <niester@math.lsa.umich.edu>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: strange warning messages 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 10 Apr 96 10:23:54 PDT."
             <199604101723.NAA13028@math.lsa.umich.edu> 
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 12:11:13 PDT
From: Bill Fenner <fenner@parc.xerox.com>
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In message <199604101723.NAA13028@math.lsa.umich.edu> you write:
>The error I get about every 15 minutes in my console (and it is filling
>my /var/log/warning file as well) is the following:
>
>Apr 10 10:50:44  vmunix: xxxInit: fcode=-1072671230

I get these every time I run "modstat".  I don't know which one of the
dynamically loaded modules it is that's misbehaving, but do you have
something that might be running "modstat" periodically?

This doesn't have anything to do with the multicast support in the kernel
(although it might have something indirectly to do with a driver for a
card that you may have installed at the same time...)

  Bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr 10 11:45:31 1996
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To: Bill Niester <niester@math.lsa.umich.edu>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: strange warning messages 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 10 Apr 1996 13:23:54 EDT."
             <199604101723.NAA13028@math.lsa.umich.edu> 
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 15:45:31 -0400
From: "Larry J. Blunk" <ljb@merit.edu>
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> 
> Hi.  I have a strange problem that has been occuring lately.  It seems
> to have begun right about the time I started using an MBone capable
> kernel.  I am running the ipmulti3.5 kernel with mrouted 3.8 on a 
> SunOS 4.1.4 system running X11R6pl13.
> 
> The error I get about every 15 minutes in my console (and it is filling
> my /var/log/warning file as well) is the following:
> 
> Apr 10 10:50:44  vmunix: xxxInit: fcode=-1072671230
> Apr 10 11:05:44  vmunix: xxxInit: fcode=-1072671230
> Apr 10 11:20:45  vmunix: xxxInit: fcode=-1072671230
> Apr 10 11:35:46  vmunix: xxxInit: fcode=-1072671230
> Apr 10 11:50:47  vmunix: xxxInit: fcode=-1072671230
> Apr 10 12:05:47  vmunix: xxxInit: fcode=-1072671230
> Apr 10 12:20:48  vmunix: xxxInit: fcode=-1072671230
> 
> 
> Any clues?  Might this have something to do with the multicast support
> in the kernel.
> 
> 	Thanks,
> 
> 		Bill
>


  I just got one of these on a SunOS 4.1.3_U1 machine which does NOT
have multicast support in the kernel.

Apr 10 15:24:13 home vmunix: xxxInit: fcode=-1072671230


  Methinks this has something to do with AFS as we alway get the
following message right after the AFS code is modloaded in at
boot time.

xxxInit: fcode=-1072409088


 -Larry Blunk
  Merit

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr 10 12:35:58 1996
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To: Bill Fenner <fenner@parc.xerox.com>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: strange warning messages 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 10 Apr 1996 12:11:13 PDT.
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 16:35:58 -0400
From: Bill Niester <niester@math.lsa.umich.edu>
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Thanks alot!  I have tracked it down to an AFS module that had a bug
in it that was fixed but I hadn't upgraded to the next version yet.

	bill



------- Your Message ------

  Date:    Wed, 10 Apr 1996 12:11:13 PDT
  To:      Bill Niester <niester@math.lsa.umich.edu>
  cc:      mbone@isi.edu
  From:    Bill Fenner <fenner@parc.xerox.com>

  Subject: Re: strange warning messages 

  In message <199604101723.NAA13028@math.lsa.umich.edu> you write:
  >The error I get about every 15 minutes in my console (and it is filling
  >my /var/log/warning file as well) is the following:
  >
  >Apr 10 10:50:44  vmunix: xxxInit: fcode=-1072671230
  
  I get these every time I run "modstat".  I don't know which one of the
  dynamically loaded modules it is that's misbehaving, but do you have
  something that might be running "modstat" periodically?
  
  This doesn't have anything to do with the multicast support in the kernel
  (although it might have something indirectly to do with a driver for a
  card that you may have installed at the same time...)
  
    Bill

------- End of Your Message ------


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr 11 02:34:02 1996
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           id 199604111434.IAA17704 for mbone@ISI.edu; Thu, 11 Apr 1996 08:34:03 -0600    
From: Sean Watkins <sean@challenge.tcel.com>
Message-Id: <199604111434.IAA17704@challenge.tcel.com>
Subject: Tunnel Request
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 08:34:02 -0600 (MDT)
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Hi 

Can someone generous at CA*net supply a tunnel for host:

	205.233.111.91

If possible, we would love it for 3 days; we are at a tradeshow and 
our connectivity is being supplied to us as part of the show.. it
isn't really worth tunneling from us here (on Sprintlink) half ways
across the country into our sgi box.

Thanks


-- 
Sean Watkins                                         
email: sean@corp.tcel.com       "Imagination is more important than knowledge"
voice: (403) 262-5859                                       - Albert Einstein

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr 11 07:07:26 1996
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From: Arlie Davis <arlie@thepoint.net>
To: "'MBONE list'" <mbone@ISI.EDU>
Cc: "'Mike Jung'" <mikej@thepoint.net>
Subject: Release 1.2 of Session Directory for Win32
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 11:07:26 -0400
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        MBONE Session Directory for
        Windows NT and Windows 95
           Version 1.2 beta

This is the third test release of my MBONE
Session Directory tool.  It was written from
scratch, by analyzing the (relatively simple)
packet format.  Later, I found the IETF draft
of the Session Description Protocol, and
implemented most of that.  Most of SDP V2 has
been implemented.

Things it can do

*    Receive sessions on both the SDP V1 and SDP V2 group
     and port.
*    Show detailed information about sessions.
*    Run external programs, especially the ports of LBL's
     VAT and VIC programs.
*    Expire old sessions.

Things it cannot (yet) do

*    Originate sessions
*    Cache known sessions to disk

Things currently in beta testing

*    DDE communication with media tools.  This currently has
     a few too many bugs, but it will be released Real Soon Now.
     This will allow the SD tool to communicate with media stream
     tools, in order to open sessions and the like.

Known bugs

*    Doesn't get the session lifetimes correct sometimes.
     There is some confusion as to the exact NTP time offset
     between SDP V1 and SDP V2.

Where to get it

You can always find it at these fine locations:

*    http://archive.thepoint.net/Internet/Interactive%20media/MBONE/SD/Win32
*    ftp://archive.thepoint.net/Archive/Internet/Interactive%20media/MBONE/SD/Win32

I am currently developing Win32 applications
which will allow transmission and reception
of many audio and video formats that are
common on the MBONE.  If you are interested
in this, feel free to drop me a line.  (That
said, however, don't write to me if all you
are going to say is, "Me too!".  I know.
Trust me, you'll get a copy when it's ready.)

If you enjoy using this, great!  If you have
suggestions for how to improve it (beyond
just urging me to implement what the UNIX SD
does), let me know.  If you feel like
complaining, go write your own version and
complain to yourself.

-- Arlie Davis <arlie@thepoint.net>




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr 11 08:54:38 1996
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Content-Identifier: 42068
From: Marilyn Hay <hay@ucs.ubc.ca>
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Cc: Steve Franks <Franks@cpsc.ucalgary.ca>, Bob.Engley@ualberta.ca,
        Sean Watkins <sean@challenge.tcel.com>
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Hi Sean,

From your message:
Status: RO

> Can someone generous at CA*net supply a tunnel for host:
> 
>         205.233.111.91
> 
> If possible, we would love it for 3 days; we are at a tradeshow and 
> our connectivity is being supplied to us as part of the show.

The BCnet router (mbone.BC.net) is about 5 hops away from you and may
be about the closest.  I've cc'ed this to the ARnet contact as they
may be able to do something a little better.  Take care,

        Marilyn Hay                          voice mail: 604-822-1348
        BCnet, Network Management Centre                 1-800-255-8588
        515 West Hastings Street             fax mail:   604-291-5022
        Vancouver, B.C.  Canada  V6B 5K3     e-mail:     Marilyn.Hay@BC.net





From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr 11 11:01:52 1996
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 15:01:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Nair Venugopal <venu@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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Subject: SDAP specification
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Hi,
Is there a "draft-specification"  on the Session Directory Announcement 
Protocol (SDAP)? I would be grateful  if someone could provide pointers 
to it, if such a draft exists.

Thanks.
--venu

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nair Venugopal(Venu)               Network Services
Email: venu@utkux.utcc.utk.edu     2339 Dunford Hall, Knoxville TN-37996
Phone: (423) 974 8508		   University of Tennessee, Knoxville


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr 11 13:13:14 1996
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From: "Garry M. Paxinos" <pax@ankh.ftl.fl.us>
Message-Id: <199604112113.RAA28483@ankh.metrolink.com>
Subject: JASON VII
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 17:13:14 -0400 (EDT)
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The above group is multicasting 444kb/s JPEG Video.

Pax.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr 11 08:09:00 1996
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From: "Jung, Michael" <mikej@finall.com>
To: "'mbone@isi.edu'" <mbone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Failover Tunnels
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 96 15:09:00 PDT
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I am trying to understand how to configure fail-over tunnels from two
c7000 Routers Version 11.0(4), RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1)
to a box running mrouted 3.8.2.

After configuring the two tunnels I have observed the following by   
watching
the debug output of mrouted and looking at "show IP mroute".

1)  vif(1) mrouted acts normally, send prunes, c7000 indicates groups   
pruned.
2)  vif(2) mrouted does not send prunes, c7000 indicates no prunes on any   
groups
3)  I have routehog configured on both c7000's at 5000 and both complain   
of excessive
 routes from the mrouted 3.8.2 box.


Question:
    

I hope I'm not just being brain dead and missing something really simple   
here.

Any Ideas why no prunes on vif(2)?

If prunes where being sent on vif(2) when a group is joined how would
the rpf calculation decide which virtual route to use?

Can you configure mrouted to have a preferred vif (because one is over
your 4.5Mbit link with one unicast hop and the other over a slower link   
with
several unicast hops (my failover link)?

If the two tunnels ended on a c7000 could IOS be configured similarly?

I hope I haven't just missed this if it has been already covered in the   
group.
Maybe DVMRP just isn't ready for this yet....

Any and all replies welcome.....

 --mikej



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr 11 09:32:22 1996
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 14:32:22 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jim Meehan <dirge@kiwi.pyrotechnics.com>
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Chicago-area feed
Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.3.91.960411142905.16325A-100000@kiwi.pyrotechnics.com>
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I'm looking for an MBONE feed for a devekelopment company and Internet 
service provider in the Chicago area.  We receive service from a small 
provider who peers directly at the Chicago-NAP and does not provide MBONE 
feeds.  I have asked them about feeds in the past, but have received no 
answers that make me believe that they will be prepared to provide feeds 
anytime in the near future.  So, I am now looking for other possible 
feeds.  Can anyone help out in this area?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
James C. Meehan                          | PYROtechnics, Inc.
1566 W. Algonquin Rd., Ste. 112          | Computer consulting, custom 
Hoffman Estates, IL  60195               | programming, hardware sales
                                         | and Internet connectivity.
work phone: (847) 991-9345               |
pager:      (800) SKYTEL-2 PIN# 1731938  | http://www.pyrotechnics.com/~dirge
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr 11 06:10:13 1996
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To: "Jung, Michael" <mikej@finall.com>
Cc: "'mbone@isi.edu'" <mbone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Failover Tunnels 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 11 Apr 96 15:09:00 PDT."
             <316D7551@smtpgate.finall.com> 
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 13:10:13 PDT
From: Bill Fenner <fenner@parc.xerox.com>
Message-Id: <96Apr11.131028pdt.177475@crevenia.parc.xerox.com>
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In message <316D7551@smtpgate.finall.com> you write:
>when a group is joined how would
>the rpf calculation decide which virtual route to use?

By the metric of the routes advertised.  If the metric is the same, then
via a tiebreaking algorithm.

>Can you configure mrouted to have a preferred vif (because one is over
>your 4.5Mbit link with one unicast hop and the other over a slower link   
>with several unicast hops (my failover link)?

Make the metric on the failover link one higher than the sum of the metrics
of all the links that it is the failover for.

>If the two tunnels ended on a c7000 could IOS be configured similarly?

Yes; the "ip dvmrp metric-offset <increment>" command is the parallel of
the "metric n" in the mrouted config file.

  Bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr 11 15:01:21 1996
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From: brutzman@cs.nps.navy.mil (Don Brutzman)
Message-Id: <9604120501.AA06252@cs.nps.navy.mil>
Subject: Setting up Mbone in India (fwd)
To: mbone@ISI.EDU (Multicast Backbone mail list)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 22:01:21 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: rgera@sansad.nic.in (Rajesh Gera)
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Rajesh's questions are better fielded by involved individuals on the
list.  I am taking the liberty of forwarding this message.  Please
include Rajesh directly in your reply in case he has not yet
subscribed.  Thanks in advance, Don

===================
Rajesh Gera writes:
From rgera@alpha.nic.in Thu Apr 11 04:18:12 1996
From: rgera@alpha.nic.in
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 96 16:46 IST
Message-Id: <9604111647.AA08244@sansad.nic.in>
To: brutzman@cs.nps.navy.mil (Don Brutzman)
Subject: Setting up Mbone in India

Dear Mr Donald P. Brutzman

Thanks a lot for taking out time to send a mail to me.

[considerate compliments deleted..]

I will be thankful if you could answer to some of my elementary doubts about
Mbone setup. Pl. donot mind if you find that the questions are very trivial.

1)      NIC (the Network company for which I am working) has a 64 Kbps
direct lease line going from our Cisco router in New Delhi and directly
terminating at Sprint router in New York. If this circuit can be dedicated
exclusively for Mbone setup then can Mbone be made operational on this
single 64 kbps link to Sprint, NewYork?

2)      NIC has another 256 kbps link to Internet but this circuit is not a
dedicated link for NIC but NIC's 256 kbps link is  going through another
router of VSNL in New Delhi which in turn is connected to MCI on a 2 Mbps
link from VSNL router to MCI router. In this case how do we ensure that the
tunnel which we setup from MCI to NIC router will always have a capacity of
256 kbps. In other words my doubt is how does minimum bandwidth is
guarenteed to a tunnel on internet which passes thru so many routers of
different service providers.

3)      I could down load from Internet a map of Mbone routers in 20
countries as of May 1994 complied by you. Is ther any updated map or a list
of all current mbone routers in the world today ? This will help me in
locating the nearest Mbone router on which I can have a chance to connect
for getting Mbone feed.

4)      NIC is very keen to get Mbone feed in India and participate in the
events which are broadcast over Mbone, Would it be possible for me to get
e-mail of some Mbone Service provider who can help me in setting up the
tunnel and configuring relevent hardware and software in our Sun Sparc 20 to
receive Mbone feed.


In the end I would like to mention that I am really fascinated by this
field. I have been working in the area of Multimedia Technology and Video
Conferencing till now and this area seems to be very very interesting.

With warm regards

Rajesh Gera

At 10:47 PM 4/10/96 -0700, you wrote:
>
>-- 
>Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code UW/Br Root 200  work 408.656.2149
>  "MBone Provides Audio and Video Across the Internet"
>      Michael R. Macedonia and Donald P. Brutzman
> _IEEE COMPUTER_, vol. 27 no. 4, pp. 30-36, April 1994. 
>
>PostScript, text, and hypertext versions of this article are available as 
>ftp://taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil/pub/i3la/mbone.ps 
>ftp://taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil/pub/i3la/mbone.txt
>ftp://taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil/pub/i3la/mbone.html
>
>IP address of taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil is 131.120.1.13
>
>We wrote this article for two reasons.  The first was to clarify
>terminology and technical questions about how the MBone works.
>The second was to help people get their sites connected and use
>the tools more effectively.  Hopefully the article is of value
>in these respects to you.
>
>Mike and I again wish to thank the originators of the MBone tools and 
>the dozens of MBone users who provided essential contributions
>to this article. 
>
>Pointers to additional resources can be found at
>ftp://taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil/pub/mosaic/mbone.html
>http://www.eit.com/techinfo/mbone/
>
>A great book is now available:
> 
>Kumar, Vinay, _MBone: Interactive Multimedia on the Internet_, New Riders   
>Publishing, Indianapolis Indiana, 1996.  ISBN 1-56205-397-3.
>(U.S.) Library of Congress QA76.76.I59K85
>    
-- 
Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code UW/Br Root 200  work 408.656.2149
              Monterey California 93943-5000 USA              fax  408.656.3679
Virtual worlds/underwater robots/Internet http://www.stl.nps.navy.mil/~brutzman

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Apr 12 04:15:31 1996
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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 11:15:31 PDT
From: schooler@cs.caltech.edu (Eve Schooler)
Message-Id: <9604121815.AA16087@vlsi.cs.caltech.edu>
To: venu@utkux.utcc.utk.edu
Subject: Re: SDAP specification
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Venu,

>Is there a "draft-specification"  on the Session Directory Announcement 
>Protocol (SDAP)? I would be grateful  if someone could provide pointers 
>to it, if such a draft exists.
 
Not yet, but Mark has been aiming to complete it soon - hopefully
before the next IETF.  You might try having a look at the minutes and
slides from the MMUSIC WG for the 12/95 IETF, when Mark last gave a 
presentation on SDAP.  See:

	ftp://ftp.isi.edu/confctrl/minutes/ietf.12.95
	ftp://ftp.isi.edu/confctrl/minutes/slides.12.95.{tar, tar.Z}

E.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Apr 12 12:09:45 1996
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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 16:09:45 EDT
From: mpullen@cne.gmu.edu (Mark Pullen)
Message-Id: <9604122009.AA10663@cne.gmu.edu>
To: mbone@ISI.EDU, brutzman@cs.nps.navy.mil
Subject: Re: Setting up Mbone in India (fwd)
Cc: rgera@sansad.nic.in
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I would not advise attempting to run Mbone over a 64kbps link.

We made a routing mistake that resulted in the Mbone
feed going through a 64kbps ISDN link.  Even with pruning
there was too much data for the link, the router congested
and performance got terrible.

Mark


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Apr 13 20:35:44 1996
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From: Work Work Work <ccetky@solar.cc.nus.sg>
Message-Id: <199604130435.MAA03010@solar.cc.nus.sg>
Subject: compiling nv with parallax grabber
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 1996 12:35:44 +0800 (SGT)
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Hello,

I am trying to compile nv 3.3 with the Parallax Xvideo option.  However,
I encounter the following errors and I cannot locate the functions as
specified.


cc -g -DSUNOS_5 -DCPV_DECODE -DSUNVIDEO -DPARALLAX -DX11GRAB -I/opt2/SUNWits/Graphics-sw/xil/include  -I/opt1/include -I/usr/openwin/include  -I/usr33/nm2/parallax2.3/include -o nv nv.o nv_init.o nv_decode.o nv_encode.o nv_getmulti.o nv_transform.o   cellb_decode.o cellb_encode.o cellb_tables.o  cuseeme_decode.o cuseeme_encode.o ibmvca_grab.o indigo_grab.o  j300_grab.o jvdriverint.o parallax_grab.o parcvid_grab.o pip_grab.o  sgivl_grab.o sunvideo_grab.o videolive_grab.o videopix_grab.o  x11_grab.o vid_color.o vid_grey.o vid_image.o vid_util.o vid_widget.o -L/opt/SUNWits/Graphics-sw/xil/lib  -R/opt2/SUNWits/Graphics-sw/xil/lib -lxil  -L/opt/tcl/lib -ltk -ltcl  -L/usr/openwin/lib -R/usr/openwin/lib  -lXext -lX11  -L/usr33/nm2/parallax2.3/lib  -lthread -lsocket -lnsl -lm
Undefined			first referenced
 symbol  			    in file
XPlxVideoInputSelect                parallax_grab.o
XPlxVideoValueLoad                  parallax_grab.o
XPlxVideoValueQuery                 parallax_grab.o
XPlxQueryVideo                      parallax_grab.o
CPV_Decode                          nv.o
XPlxVideoSqueezeStill               parallax_grab.o
XPlxVideoTag                        parallax_grab.o
ld: fatal: Symbol referencing errors. No output written to nv
*** Error code 1
make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `nv'


Furthermore, I also cannot locate the cpv_decode-sunos5.o as specified
in the Makefile.

Lastly, can nv work with the Parallax PowerVideo or MultiVideo cards?

Thanks in advance.

Regards,

Kwong-Yeong Tung
Computer Centre
National University of Singapore
email:ccetky@nus.sg

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Apr 15 00:10:50 1996
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To: "mbone" <mbone@ISI.EDU>
From: "Ulrich Flegel" <flegel@lorraine.ts.rz.tu-bs.de>
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 1996 23:10:50 +0100
Reply-To: "Ulrich Flegel" <flegel@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de>
Subject: Security relevant topics 
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Hello to you all!

If  I  have  used the wrong address to post to this list, please correct me,
because it is indeed my first posting here to.

I  working  on  a  thesis  in the domain of networking security.  If someone
could  be  so  kind  and  point  out  some sources of mbone related security
information...

I'd be very glad about personal answers.

TIA
                   Ulrich.



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Apr 15 10:24:41 1996
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Subject: Experiencing problems with mtrace
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Hi,

I am trying to run mtrace on a machine that is at one end of a tunnel.  Is this
possible? I am getting these results when I try the following 2 commands:

> mtrace -n 128.119.40.186
Mtrace from 128.119.40.186 to 147.81.7.56 via group 224.2.0.1
Querying full reverse path... * switching to hop-by-hop:
  0  147.81.7.56
 -1  * * * Timed out receiving responses
Perhaps no local router has a route for source 128.119.40.186

OR

> mtrace -n -g 137.39.229.98 128.119.40.186
Mtrace from 128.119.40.186 to 147.81.7.56 via group 224.2.0.1
Querying full reverse path...
  0  147.81.7.56
 -1  0.0.0.0  DVMRP  thresh^ 0  Wrong interface
Round trip time 33 ms

Waiting to accumulate statistics... Results after 10 seconds:

  Source        Response Dest    Packet Statistics For     Only For Traffic
   * * *        147.81.7.56      All Multicast Traffic     From 128.119.40.186
     v       __/  rtt   22 ms    Lost/Sent = Pct  Rate       To 224.2.0.1
0.0.0.0                        Wrong interface
     v      \__   ttl    0
147.81.7.56     147.81.7.56
  Receiver      Query Source


The host 137.39.229.98 is the other end of the tunnel.  Can anyone help?

Thanks,

Michael Rizkalla
TASC, Inc.
55 Walkers Brook Drive
Reading, MA  02174
(617) 942-2000 x2444
mrizkalla@tasc.com

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr 16 16:52:01 1996
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To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: multicast extensions for SS5
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 15:52:01 +0100
From: David W Lloyd <dwl@cs.strath.ac.uk>
Message-Id:  <9604161552.aa08990@bell.cs.strath.ac.uk>
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I've been trying to install mulitcast release 3.5 on a Sun Sparc 5 (sun4m
architecture).  The install works fine (using mcast_install) but when I attempt
to use the kernel the console reports the errors:

le1: TINT but buffer owned by LANCE
le1: RINT but buffer owned by LANCE

This machine has two ethernet interfaces le0 and le1 (there are no errors
reported for le0).

I've tried installing mcast in a patched sys directory and a generic version
copied straight from the CD, but the above errors always appear.  I've also
tried using the patched version of if_le.o included in the mcast release but
that didn't help either.

Can anyone provide me with help on what to try next?


Dave.

===============================================================================
David Lloyd                              | email: d.lloyd@cs.strath.ac.uk
Computer Science, Strathclyde University |
26 Richmond Street, Glasgow              | Phone: +44 (0)141 552 4400 ext 3592
Scotland  G1 1XH                         | FAX:   +44 (0)141 552 5330
===============================================================================


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr 16 17:13:49 1996
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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 16:13:49 +0100 (BST)
From: Graeme Wood <jaw@ucs.ed.ac.uk>
Reply-To: Graeme.Wood@ucs.ed.ac.uk
To: David W Lloyd <dwl@cs.strath.ac.uk>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: multicast extensions for SS5
In-Reply-To: <9604161552.aa08990@bell.cs.strath.ac.uk>
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On Tue, 16 Apr 1996, David W Lloyd wrote:

> I've been trying to install mulitcast release 3.5 on a Sun Sparc 5 (sun4m
> architecture).  The install works fine (using mcast_install) but when I attempt
> to use the kernel the console reports the errors:
> 
> le1: TINT but buffer owned by LANCE
> le1: RINT but buffer owned by LANCE
> 
> This machine has two ethernet interfaces le0 and le1 (there are no errors
> reported for le0).

The problem is with the type of ethernet card you have installed.  Here 
is a message from Syngen Brown who managed to get this working:

From syngen@clus1.ulcc.ac.ukTue Apr 16 16:12:16 1996
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 96 18:48:16 GMT
From: Syngen Brown <syngen@clus1.ulcc.ac.uk>
Status: RO

Reply to: s.brown@ulcc.ac.uk
To: "Jeffrey S. Curtis" <curtis@anl.gov>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU, loco@mfst.com
Subject: Re: more RINT/TINT error messages!

>
> }I just tried putting the patches onto a SS5 (sun4m) with a 4-port (qe) 
> }card.  The kernel recompiled just peachy, but no unicast traffic passes 
> }in/out of any of the qe{0-3} interfaces. [...]
> 
> Drat.  In other words, if you have a SPARC 5 and want multicasting
> on ethernet interfaces, your only options are the builtin ethernet
> port and any SCSI+10baseT sBus NICs you have in the machine (which
> I've gotten to work with ipmulti-3.5).
 
Not quite, since my last posting I have successfully configured a
multicast router comprising a SPARC 4, SunOS 4.1.3_U1B, ipmulti 3.5,
mrouted 3.8 and the Sbus Ethernet Card (X453A).  I mentioned that
replacing the if_le.o driver with that from the ipmulti 3.3 had been
known to work, although I had tried this unsuccessfully at that time.
It now appears that there are at least two versions of this driver for
the Sun4m architecture.  The first one I tried reports the Sbus
Ethernet Card to be unsupported, this is 19389 bytes in length and has
the checksum 40268 (calculated by SunOS4 sum).  The good one is 21237
bytes length and has the checksum 23695.  Unfortunately I could not
get even the good one to work under SunOS4.1.4, although there is no
indication of anything untoward until one attempts to start mrouted. 

I'm afraid I cannot account for the two different versions of this
driver, but if anyone has difficulty locating the good if_le.o I'll
make a copy available to them.

Syngen


=============================================================================
Graeme Wood                                 Email: Graeme.Wood@ucs.ed.ac.uk
Unix Systems Support                        Phone: +44 131 650 5003
The University of Edinburgh                 Fax:   +44 131 650 6552
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scottish MICE National Support Centre       Email: mice-nsc-scotland@ed.ac.uk
for your multimedia conferencing support    WWW:   http://mice.ed.ac.uk/mice/
=============================================================================


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr 16 17:14:58 1996
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To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: multicast extensions for SS5
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 16:14:58 +0100
From: David W Lloyd <dwl@cs.strath.ac.uk>
Message-Id:  <9604161614.aa10314@bell.cs.strath.ac.uk>
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Sorry - I forgot to mention in my last message that the system is running
SunOS 4.1.3_U1.

Dave.

===============================================================================
David Lloyd                              | email: d.lloyd@cs.strath.ac.uk
Computer Science, Strathclyde University |
26 Richmond Street, Glasgow              | Phone: +44 (0)141 552 4400 ext 3592
Scotland  G1 1XH                         | FAX:   +44 (0)141 552 5330
===============================================================================

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr 16 10:10:50 1996
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Message-Id: <199604170010.RAA03112@george.arc.nasa.gov>
From: lamaster@george.arc.nasa.gov
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Macs which may not like IP Multicast in the background
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I have been advised recently of a problem on one of our IP multicast
enabled subnets wherein a Mac Centris seems to slow down drastically 
when IP multicast traffic, e.g. mbone, is going on on the same ethernet.
I am wondering if this is a common problem, if there is an FAQ or
other resource which describes this problem, and, if there is a 
cure other than divorcing the Mac and the multicast traffic.


-Hugh LaMaster

  Hugh LaMaster, M/S 233-18,    Email:       Please send ASCII documents to:
  NASA Ames Research Center     Internet:    lamaster@ames.arc.nasa.gov
  Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000  Or:          lamaster@george.arc.nasa.gov 
  Phone:  415/604-1056          Disclaimer:  Unofficial, personal *opinion*.




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr 17 09:14:31 1996
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Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 06:14:31 +0300
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From: Petri Helenius <pete@sms.fi>
To: lamaster@george.arc.nasa.gov
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Macs which may not like IP Multicast in the background
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lamaster@george.arc.nasa.gov writes:
 > I have been advised recently of a problem on one of our IP multicast
 > enabled subnets wherein a Mac Centris seems to slow down drastically 
 > when IP multicast traffic, e.g. mbone, is going on on the same ethernet.
 > I am wondering if this is a common problem, if there is an FAQ or
 > other resource which describes this problem, and, if there is a 
 > cure other than divorcing the Mac and the multicast traffic.
 > 
I'm not too confident on Mac's specially but there is a set of devices
that for various reasons cannot distinguish broadcasts and multicasts
on the hardware level. Because of this their CPUs are forced to look
to every packet which is bad performance-wise. There are a couple of
other devices suffering from this also.

Pete

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr 16 18:18:07 1996
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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 23:18:07 -0500
Message-Id: <199604170418.XAA07661@achilles.ctd.anl.gov>
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re:  Macs which may not like IP Multicast in the background
From: "Jeffrey S. Curtis" <curtis@anl.gov>
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Hugh LaMaster writes:
}I have been advised recently of a problem on one of our IP multicast
}enabled subnets wherein a Mac Centris seems to slow down drastically 
}when IP multicast traffic, e.g. mbone, is going on on the same ethernet.
}I am wondering if this is a common problem, if there is an FAQ or
}other resource which describes this problem, and, if there is a 
}cure other than divorcing the Mac and the multicast traffic.

Macs use AppleTalk.  AppleTalk uses various multicast groups for things
like routing, zone updates, or address resolution.  Therefore, the Mac
will be involved in listening to certain multicast groups on your LAN.

My guess is that the Mac in question has a NIC with a very small number
of hash buckets, such that when the Mac turns on buckets X, Y, and Z to
listen to AppleTalk multicasts, certain IP Multicast groups from the
Mbone happen to map into either X, Y, or Z as well with that NIC's
particular hash function, and therefore some of the Mbone multicast
groups are having their traffic streams "leak" past the NIC's hardware
filter into the CPU on the machine.  I put "leak" in quotes because
this is normal behavior, and therefore the use of the word "leak" may
be misleading because "leak" implies incorrect behavior, but it is
only incorrect behavior from a logical standpoint rather than an
implementation standpoint.

Hope this helps,

Jeff
-- 
Jeffrey S. Curtis                      | Internetwork Manager
Argonne National Laboratory            | Email: curtis@anl.gov
9700 South Cass Avenue, ECT-221        | Voice: 708/252-1789
Argonne, IL 60439                      | Fax:   708/252-9689

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr 17 03:42:14 1996
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Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 07:42:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Charlie <aherna01@rama.poly.edu>
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Mbone Set-up
Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960417073748.10596B-100000@rama.poly.edu>
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I'm in the process of trying to set up the mbone software here at 
Polytechnic University in New York. However, I've found that our internet 
provider does not provide mbone support.  So, I was wondering what the 
process would be to have some type of tunnel set up. Is it possible for 
someone to provide that link to us for the time being?

Thank you very much for your help.

Alex Hernandez


|    Alex Hernandez       | "While lying in bed, I think about life and I  |
| Polytechnic University  | think about death and neither one particularly |
| Mechanical Engineering  | appeals to me..." -The Smiths                  |
| aherna01@rama.poly.edu  | HOME PAGE - http://www.poly.edu:1800/alex.html |


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Apr 15 09:07:16 1995
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Date: Sat, 15 Apr 1995 00:07:16 +0900
From: Hur Sang Jin <hsj@palgong.kyungpook.ac.kr>
Organization: KNU
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To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: IP mcast per-source pruning
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Hi all.

I wander that current IP multicast supports per-source pruning.
is this supported in rsvp( packet filter ) ?
is this reseverved ?

for example, In a session, I do not want packet from some participants.
How can I filtering unwanted load from unwanted participants.
is there some elegant solutions ?

please tell me solution.

thanks in advance.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr 17 15:04:55 1996
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To: Hur Sang Jin <hsj@palgong.kyungpook.ac.kr>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU, hasty@rah.star-gate.com
Subject: Re: IP mcast per-source pruning 
Reply-To: ajit@ee.udel.edu
X-Mailer: MH-6.8.3
References: <2F8E8FA4.566C@palgong.kyungpook.ac.kr> 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 15 Apr 1995 00:07:16 +0900."
             <2F8E8FA4.566C@palgong.kyungpook.ac.kr> 
Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.42)
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Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 15:04:55 +0000
From: Ajit Thyagarajan <ajit@louie.udel.edu>
Message-Id:  <9604171504.aa29492@beauregard.udel.edu>
Sender: owner-mbone@ISI.EDU
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	Hur Sang Jin wrote:
>I wander that current IP multicast supports per-source pruning.
>is this supported in rsvp( packet filter ) ?
>is this reseverved ?
>
>for example, In a session, I do not want packet from some participants.
>How can I filtering unwanted load from unwanted participants.
>is there some elegant solutions ?

Per-source joining and leaving is not yet supported in IGMP
(versions 1 and 2).  Version 3 of IGMP has support for specifying an
explicit set of sources within a group as well as pruning specific
sources within a group.  There is an internet draft in the usual
places that gives the general idea, but it has since been rewritten
almost completely and we hope to post it in a week or so.  The older
draft may still be there, but I did receive a note saying that it had
expired.  If anyone still wants the older draft, send me a note and I
will send you a copy.

This also answers a previous question posed by Amancio Hasty on MBone
tools being able to prune "pesterous" members of a group.

Ajit

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr 17 04:15:00 1996
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Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 11:15:00 -0700
To: ajit@ee.udel.edu
From: "Matthew G. Harrigan" <mharrigan@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: IP mcast per-source pruning 
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Sender: owner-mbone@ISI.EDU
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>Per-source joining and leaving is not yet supported in IGMP
>(versions 1 and 2).  Version 3 of IGMP has support for specifying an
>explicit set of sources within a group as well as pruning specific
>sources within a group.

Is anyone developing apps with IGMP v3 in mind yet (with filtereque
features), or are all applications being developed specifically  <= v2? 

-Matt

Matthew G. Harrigan		cisco Systems
Internet Systems Engineer	mharrigan@cisco.com
				408-527-3852 (x63582)


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr 17 18:47:44 1996
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To: "Matthew G. Harrigan" <mharrigan@cisco.com>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IP mcast per-source pruning 
Reply-To: ajit@ee.udel.edu
X-Mailer: MH-6.8.3
References: <2.2.32.19960417181500.006bb6c0@diablo.cisco.com> 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 17 Apr 1996 11:15:00 MST."
             <2.2.32.19960417181500.006bb6c0@diablo.cisco.com> 
Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.42)
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Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 18:47:44 +0000
From: Ajit Thyagarajan <ajit@louie.udel.edu>
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	"Matthew G. Harrigan" wrote:
>Is anyone developing apps with IGMP v3 in mind yet (with filtereque
>features), or are all applications being developed specifically  <= v2? 

I am not aware of any as yet.  I think it has been the general
practice for the support to be present in the underlying protocol
before adding it to the tools.  For example, Vat can shut off audio
from a particular user, but this is only at the application level and
traffic from that source still reaches the host.  Once the support is
present in the kernel to prune specific sources, it should be possible
to add a kernel call() to Vat to delete the source as well.  The exact
interface details are still being worked out.

Ajit

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr 18 00:45:42 1996
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To: lamaster@george.arc.nasa.gov
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Macs which may not like IP Multicast in the background 
In-Reply-To: Message by lamaster@george.arc.nasa.gov ,
	     Tue, 16 Apr 1996 17:10:50 -0700 (PDT) , <199604170010.RAA03112@george.arc.nasa.gov> 
Organisation: Multi-media group, CWI, Kruislaan 413, Amsterdam
Phone: +31 20 5924098(work), +31 20 5924199 (fax), +31 20 6160335(home)
X-Last-Band-Seen: Gone Bald, Radiopuhelimet (OCC Init, 10-4)
X-Mini-Review: Experimental hardcore, especialy Radiopuhelimet were great
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 22:45:42 +0200
From: Jack Jansen <Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl>
Sender: owner-mbone@ISI.EDU
Precedence: bulk
Status: RO


Recently, lamaster@george.arc.nasa.gov said:
> I have been advised recently of a problem on one of our IP multicast
> enabled subnets wherein a Mac Centris seems to slow down drastically
> when IP multicast traffic, e.g. mbone, is going on on the same ethernet.

Hugh, please tell me more if you hear it. My 9500 has inexpicably
dropped it's local ethernet transfer rate from around 500Kbps to
around 100Kbps, and I re-enabled multicast around that same time...
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl      | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
http://www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr 18 02:37:55 1996
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To: Jack Jansen <Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl>
Cc: lamaster@george.arc.nasa.gov, mbone@ISI.EDU
From: Geert Jan de Groot <GeertJan.deGroot@ripe.net>
X-Organization: RIPE Network Coordination Centre
X-Phone: +31 20 592 5065
Subject: Re: Macs which may not like IP Multicast in the background 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 17 Apr 1996 22:45:42 +0200."
             <9604172045.AA18670=jack@schelvis.cwi.nl> 
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 00:37:55 +0200
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On Wed, 17 Apr 1996 22:45:42 +0200  Jack Jansen wrote:
> Recently, lamaster@george.arc.nasa.gov said:
> > I have been advised recently of a problem on one of our IP multicast
> > enabled subnets wherein a Mac Centris seems to slow down drastically
> > when IP multicast traffic, e.g. mbone, is going on on the same ethernet.
> 
> Hugh, please tell me more if you hear it. My 9500 has inexpicably
> dropped it's local ethernet transfer rate from around 500Kbps to
> around 100Kbps, and I re-enabled multicast around that same time...

You may want to check for the mac generating ICMP error messages
in response to the multicast packets. The theory is that the 
ethernet interface lets the mcast traffic pass (some have a very
simplistic filter, such as 64-bit hash bucket), some don't have
filtering at all and pass all mcast traffic once mcast receive
is enabled, and the IP software recognizes the packet as 'mine'
finds the UDP socked unused and thus returns an ICMP port unreachable.

Possible approaches are:
- Upgrading the MAC software (last time I touched a mac, MacTCP 3.x
  was under development so chances are that newer code does this
  correctly)
- Splitting off the macs from the mcast ethernet segment
  (This may be a case where a 10baseT network comes in handy ;-)

Geert Jan


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Wed Apr 17 09:02:46 1996
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X-Authentication-Warning: kachina.jetcafe.org: Host [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Unconfirmed break in the MBONE?
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 16:02:46 -0700
From: Dave Hayes <dave@kachina.jetcafe.org>
Sender: owner-mbone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

One of the listeners to Radio Free Vat on the East Coast seems to be
unable to hear broadcasts, yet her name appears on the Vat window. 

Standard investigation techniques (mrinfo) on my side seem to 
say everything is working. 

So this is not an outage report. Rather, I'll be broadcasting music
until at least 7PM PDT today. If any of you MBONE gurus out there
(from anywhere) could check in and see if you hear the music, I'd
appreciate it. Also, if only those who do -not- hear music could
send email to me, I'd be grateful. 

Thanks in advance.
------
Dave Hayes - Altadena CA, USA - dave@jetcafe.org 
Freedom Knight of Usenet - http://www.jetcafe.org/~dave/usenet

Obstacles are those terrible things you see when you take your eyes off     
your goal.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr 18 10:49:34 1996
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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 07:49:34 +0300
Message-Id: <199604180449.HAA15250@silver.sms.fi>
From: Petri Helenius <pete@sms.fi>
To: Dave Hayes <dave@kachina.jetcafe.org>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Unconfirmed break in the MBONE?
In-Reply-To: <199604172302.QAA08473@kachina.jetcafe.org>
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Dave Hayes writes:
 > One of the listeners to Radio Free Vat on the East Coast seems to be
 > unable to hear broadcasts, yet her name appears on the Vat window. 
 > 
 > Standard investigation techniques (mrinfo) on my side seem to 
 > say everything is working. 
 > 
 > So this is not an outage report. Rather, I'll be broadcasting music
 > until at least 7PM PDT today. If any of you MBONE gurus out there
 > (from anywhere) could check in and see if you hear the music, I'd
 > appreciate it. Also, if only those who do -not- hear music could
 > send email to me, I'd be grateful. 
 > 
The session announcement for Radio Free Vat is not visible in Finland
so there might be a break somewhere. Could you tell the source and
group addresses you are initiating your transmission from so I could
do a mtrace towards that?

Pete

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr 18 03:24:11 1996
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To: Geert Jan de Groot <GeertJan.deGroot@ripe.net>,
        Jack Jansen <Jack.Jansen@cwi.nl>
From: Pallas@Apple.COM (Joe Pallas)
Subject: Re: Macs which may not like IP Multicast in the background
Cc: lamaster@george.arc.nasa.gov, mbone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

Macs running OpenTransport (including all the PCI machines) are
multicast-aware, and Macs running MacTCP 2.x should properly ignore
multicast traffic.  I haven't noticed any performance problems on my
machines, which are on an Mbone-connected net.  If you can conduct a
controlled experiment that shows multicast traffic affects the performance
of your machine, I expect the OpenTransport development team would be very
interested.

joe



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr 18 04:09:11 1996
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To: Petri Helenius <pete@sms.fi>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: Unconfirmed break in the MBONE? 
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 11:09:11 -0700
From: Dave Hayes <dave@kachina.jetcafe.org>
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Petri Helenius <pete@sms.fi> writes:
>The session announcement for Radio Free Vat is not visible in Finland
>so there might be a break somewhere. Could you tell the source and
>group addresses you are initiating your transmission from so I could
>do a mtrace towards that?

Well, my host is kachina.jetcafe.org at 206.117.70.2. I'm not sure
what you mean by group address if it's not the multicast address,
and if it is I don't know what SD's group address is, the RFV group
address is 224.2.253.119.
------
Dave Hayes - Altadena CA, USA - dave@jetcafe.org 
Freedom Knight of Usenet - http://www.jetcafe.org/~dave/usenet

       If at first you don't succeed ... redefine success.

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr 18 09:22:12 1996
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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 14:22:12 -0500
To: ajit@ee.udel.edu, "Matthew G. Harrigan" <mharrigan@cisco.com>
From: T.Dorcey@cornell.edu (Tim Dorcey)
Subject: Re: IP mcast per-source pruning
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

At 1:47 PM 4/17/96, Ajit Thyagarajan wrote:
>        "Matthew G. Harrigan" wrote:
>>Is anyone developing apps with IGMP v3 in mind yet (with filtereque
>>features), or are all applications being developed specifically  <= v2?
>
>I am not aware of any as yet.  I think it has been the general
>practice for the support to be present in the underlying protocol
>before adding it to the tools.  For example, Vat can shut off audio

We took the opposite approach while developing CU-SeeMe.  Because multicast
was not available on the desktop platforms we were interested in, we built
"reflectors" as a temporary stand-in.  We figured we could begin
experimenting immediately with the user experience, and then tear out the
reflectors as soon as IP multicast with source specific pruning became
widely available on the Internet.  That was over 3 years ago.  I'm glad we
didn't wait.

Tim Dorcey
BoxTop Interactive



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr 18 09:34:27 1996
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To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: need mcast/bpf drivers for Bantam BF/SX FDDI card under SunOS
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 16:34:27 -0700
From: Rob Robertson <rob@gangrene.net.berkeley.edu>
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I need drivers for multicast/bpf under the Bantam BF/SX fddi card
under SunOS.  Do such beasties exist???

Any help would be appreciated.

rob
			  william robertson
		  datakommunication&netwerkzervices
			     uc berkeley
			rob@agate.berkeley.edu

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr 18 11:46:44 1996
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To: "Matthew G. Harrigan" <mharrigan@cisco.com>
Cc: ajit@ee.udel.edu, mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IP mcast per-source pruning 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 17 Apr 96 11:15:00 PDT.
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 96 18:46:44 PDT
From: Van Jacobson <van@ee.lbl.gov>
Sender: owner-mbone@ISI.EDU
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Status: RO

> Is anyone developing apps with IGMP v3 in mind yet (with
> filtereque features), or are all applications being developed
> specifically  <= v2?

We were the ones who started the campaign for source-based
pruning in igmp & have written our apps (vat, vic, wb, etc.)
assuming that it would one day exist.  As soon as it is
available, our apps will use it.  (As Ajit noted, the user
interface is already there.)

Unfortunately, the effect of source-based prunes may not be as
large as one would desire.  An increasing number of PCs running
that slime pit Microsoft calls an OS are appearing on the
MBone.  Despite a great deal of explaining & cajoling on my
part, Microsloth still hasn't incorporated the "bind" fixes that
we got into every Unix system way back in 1991.  (Under win95,
join two vat sessions with different multicast addresses but
the same port & notice that all the members of both sessions
appear in each.)  If they can't get a 3 line fix into "bind" in
5 years, I can't imagine how many centuries it will take for
something significant like upgrading to igmp v3.  And while
there are v2 hosts on a subnet, the v3 source based prunes will
be a nop.

 - Van

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Apr 19 12:59:20 1996
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	id KAA06684 (8.7.5/7.5b-FAU); Fri, 19 Apr 1996 10:59:22 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Toerless Eckert <Toerless.Eckert@informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
Message-Id: <199604190859.KAA06684@faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
Subject: Re: need mcast/bpf drivers for Bantam BF/SX FDDI card under SunOS
To: rob@gangrene.net.berkeley.edu (Rob Robertson)
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 10:59:20 +0200 (MET DST)
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199604182334.QAA04718@gangrene.net.berkeley.edu> from "Rob Robertson" at Apr 18, 96 04:34:27 pm
Organisation: CSD IMMD IV, University of Erlangen, Germany
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> I need drivers for multicast/bpf under the Bantam BF/SX fddi card
> under SunOS.  Do such beasties exist???
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.

There is no such thing to my knowledge. You may try to get the
sources for the driver from sun, but then there were others who tried
so without success in before. We bought Cisco FDDI interfaces for
this very reason (bpf is available for them).

Toerless

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Apr 19 07:43:02 1996
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From: "Brian DeCleene" <decleene@diamond.Read.TASC.COM>
Message-Id: <9604191143.ZM10857@diamond>
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 11:43:02 -0400
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.1.0 22feb94 MediaMail)
To: jer@dgp.toronto.edu, steve@ecf.toronto.edu, armstrong@wrc.xerox.com,
        freier@apple.com, marzullo@cs.cornell.edu,
        cabo@informatik.uni-bremen.de, jo@cs.tu-berlin.de,
        nilss@cs.tu-berlin.de, akoifman@tasc.com, gszabele@tasc.com,
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        lin@cs.purdue.edu, sanjoy@research.att.com, mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Reliable Multicast Comparison
Cc: kurose@gaia.cs.umass.edu, towsley@gaia.cs.umass.edu, btdecleene@tasc.com
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Hi,

I am in the process of trying to collect a list of all available _reliable_
multicast implementations together with a summary of their functionality.  This
can be found at

	http://www.tascnets.com/mist/doc/mcpCompare.html

I am primarily focusing on transport layer protocols that have actually been
implemented and are available, in some fashion, for others to use/test.  For
some of the protocols that I have stumbled upon, I have taken an initial pass
at trying to capture their key characteristics from the literature that I've
read.

Please take a moment and review the protocol list (particularlly if you are an
author of a reliable multicast protocol) and let me know if of any corrections
that need to be made; preferably using the experimental registration form
listed in the document (if it doesn't work, let me know). Also, if you know of
any additional protocols please let me know along with any additional
information that you can provide.

Thanks,
--- Brian DeCleene
    btdecleene@tasc.com




From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Apr 19 08:25:54 1996
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From: Michael Jung <mikej@finall.com>
To: "'mbone@ISI.EDU'" <mbone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: IP Mcast per-source pruning - MS what to do?
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 12:25:54 -0400
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It would seem to me MS probably hasn't addressed this because
historically their haven't been any multicast aware apps 
in the MS environment.  I don't want to start another debate about
which OS should rule the planet or which may have the most enriched
environment for doing foo, but their are a LOT of CPU's running
MS OS.  Hell, I have over 400 I have to deal with, and yes a few
UNIX boxes too.

Actually until you mentioned this I wasn't aware of it and I've been
on the list for ~2 years and don't remember it ever being 
discussed.

Maybe Jim Gremmel could help by determining the best
channel for network administrators to address this as a concern
with MS. 

For the Mbone to grow it needs better access for all users on
all platforms.The last stats I read indicated that most business
desktop systems do run a MS OS.

Just another observation.......

--mikej
mikej@finall.com

>Van Jacobson writes:

>Unfortunately, the effect of source-based prunes may not be as
>large as one would desire.  An increasing number of PCs running
>that slime pit Microsoft calls an OS are appearing on the
>MBone.  Despite a great deal of explaining & cajoling on my
>part, Microsloth still hasn't incorporated the "bind" fixes that
>we got into every Unix system way back in 1991.  (Under win95,
>join two vat sessions with different multicast addresses but
>the same port & notice that all the members of both sessions
>appear in each.)  If they can't get a 3 line fix into "bind" in
>5 years, I can't imagine how many centuries it will take for
>something significant like upgrading to igmp v3.  And while
>there are v2 hosts on a subnet, the v3 source based prunes will
>be a nop.
>
> - Van


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Apr 19 03:27:40 1996
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Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 10:27:40 -0700
To: Michael Jung <mikej@finall.com>
From: "Matthew G. Harrigan" <mharrigan@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: IP Mcast per-source pruning - MS what to do?
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
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>Maybe Jim Gremmel could help by determining the best
>channel for network administrators to address this as a concern
>with MS. 

I dont think the issues are clearly defined enough for MS to 
set expectation standards specifically for network administrators 
yet. Since they are such a large entity, perhaps better approach would
be for them to setup a channel to take direct overall input from reseachers,
developers, and admins (its not as if they are lacking resources). They
might even think about releasing a newsletter, and in addition ... holding
an mbone conference. They need to get a grip on the fact that without direct 
interaction with people that know more about this than they do, it is highly
likely they will be left in the dust (or at least spend more later getting
up to speed). 

Download that from your screen to your watch.

Matt


Matthew G. Harrigan		cisco Systems
Internet Systems Engineer	mharrigan@cisco.com
				408-527-3852 (x63582)


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Apr 19 03:58:34 1996
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Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 10:58:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Chorak <chorak1@coyote.csusm.edu>
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To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Mac Mbone stuff
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I going to install mbone on our Power Mac at our site.
I understand that we need Mac OS 7.5.2, however is there
FAQ's on the Mac mbone that I can check out. I need to
know the latest troubles with installing Macbone ("something I made up").

PS: Where can I also download the tools?

Mark

"I'll have 1 Macbone, 1 small order of fries and a small coke."

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Apr 19 04:23:42 1996
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To: "Matthew G. Harrigan" <mharrigan@cisco.com>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: IP Mcast per-source pruning - MS what to do? 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 19 Apr 1996 10:27:40 PDT."
             <2.2.32.19960419172740.006aca1c@diablo.cisco.com> 
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Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 11:23:42 -0700
From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." <hasty@rah.star-gate.com>
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>>> "Matthew G. Harrigan" said:
 > 
 > >Maybe Jim Gremmel could help by determining the best
 > >channel for network administrators to address this as a concern
 > >with MS. 
 > 
 > I dont think the issues are clearly defined enough for MS to 
 > set expectation standards specifically for network administrators 
 > yet. Since they are such a large entity, perhaps better approach would

Well, MS BARC, Microsoft's Bay Area Research Center or at least one
of its members are on the mbone list so if we post on the list
exactly what they need to do, it may stand a chance for the fixes to going
in .

Oh, I am not part of BARC .

	Amancio



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Apr 19 12:22:03 1996
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Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 16:22:03 -0400
From: Dave Burton <david.burton@nrl.navy.mil>
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To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Mrouted warning message
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Does anyone know what is causing the following warning message?

Apr 19 16:06:00 iguana mrouted[124]: warning - duplicate prune received on vif 7 from 134.207.132.5 for (199.94.220.0 224.2.0.1)/312 old timer: 15 cur gm: 22
Apr 19 16:06:00 iguana mrouted[124]: warning - duplicate prune received on vif 7 from 134.207.132.5 for (13.0.0.0 224.2.127.255)/445 old timer: 13 cur gm: 32

We get the message about once a minute.

The tunnel from  iguana is the only feed to the remote end of
the tunnel, 134.207.132.5. 

Below is some configuration info on both ends of the tunnel:

132.250.110.6 (iguana) [version 3.8,prune,genid,mtrace]:
  132.250.110.6 -> 0.0.0.0 (local) [1/1/disabled]
  132.250.230.6 -> 132.250.230.1 (pim-rtr.nrl.navy.mil) [1/1/leaf]
  132.250.1.6 -> 0.0.0.0 (local) [1/1/disabled]
  134.207.128.36 -> 0.0.0.0 (local) [1/1/disabled]
  132.250.1.6 -> 192.41.177.197 (mbone.sura.net) [1/64/tunnel]
  134.207.128.36 -> 134.207.10.180 (mbone.cmf.nrl.navy.mil) [1/8/tunnel]
  132.250.1.6 -> 128.63.2.86 (aai.arl.mil) [2/48/tunnel]
  134.207.128.36 -> 134.207.132.5 (ait.nrl.navy.mil) [1/16/tunnel/leaf]

134.207.132.5 (ait.nrl.navy.mil) [version 3.8,prune,genid,mtrace]:
  134.207.132.5 -> 0.0.0.0 (local) [1/1/disabled]
  132.250.79.5 -> 0.0.0.0 (local) [1/1/querier/leaf]
  132.250.128.5 -> 0.0.0.0 (local) [1/1/querier/leaf]
  204.235.68.100 -> 0.0.0.0 (local) [1/1/disabled]
  134.207.132.5 -> 134.207.128.36 (iguana-atm) [1/16/tunnel]
  132.250.128.5 -> 129.131.85.112 (indyone.chinalake.navy.mil) [1/1/tunnel/down/leaf]
  132.250.128.5 -> 128.49.29.37 (dracula.nosc.mil) [1/1/tunnel/down/leaf]

Thanks,

Dave

****************************************************************************** 
   David Burton 			| CCS Operational Networks	
   Email:  david.a.burton@nrl.navy.mil	| Naval Research Lab (Code 5592)
   Phone:  (202)767-3903		| 4555 Overlook Avenue, S.W.
   FAX:    (202)404-7402		| Washington DC 20375
*****************************************************************************


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sat Apr 20 14:45:39 1996
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Message-Id: <199604200845.LAA11157@silver.sms.fi>
From: Petri Helenius <pete@sms.fi>
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: rtpdump
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  Anybody have rtpdump that would work on intel-byte-order machines?

Pete

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Sun Apr 21 17:53:21 1996
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To: dino@cisco.com
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: host mm1-45a.cisco.com doing nasty things to mbone
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 96 00:53:21 PDT
From: Van Jacobson <van@ee.lbl.gov>
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host mm1-45a.cisco.com is sending 200 icmp echo requests per second
(one every 5ms) to multicast address 235.45.45.45 at ttl 255.
This is not a good idea.

 - Van

 --------------------------
00:47:30.743492 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
00:47:30.748295 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
00:47:30.752626 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
00:47:30.757151 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
00:47:30.761630 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
00:47:30.767567 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
00:47:30.770449 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
00:47:30.775833 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
00:47:30.780058 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
00:47:30.785432 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
00:47:30.790031 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
00:47:30.795611 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
00:47:30.800282 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
00:47:30.805010 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
00:47:30.809725 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
00:47:30.813737 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
00:47:30.818218 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
00:47:30.822981 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
00:47:30.827253 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
00:47:30.831530 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
00:47:30.836247 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
00:47:30.840300 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
00:47:30.844963 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
00:47:30.855936 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
00:47:30.861006 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
00:47:30.866144 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
00:47:30.870986 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
00:47:30.876026 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
00:47:30.880503 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
00:47:30.885052 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
00:47:30.890265 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
00:47:30.894250 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
...

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Apr 22 06:46:00 1996
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	id <317B9B7A@ist_smtp.ist.ucf.edu>; Mon, 22 Apr 96 10:45:14 EDT
From: "Myjak, Michael" <MMYJAK@ist.ucf.edu>
To: ajit <ajit@ee.udel.edu>, majordom <majordom@ISI.EDU>
Cc: mbone <mbone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: IP mcast per-source pruning
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 96 10:46:00 EDT
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Although we haven't developed an app. specifically for v3, I can see (rather 
easily) how I could use source filtering in distributed interactive 
simulations.

 -- Michael Myjak
   Senior Research Scientist
   Institute for Simulation and Training
 ----------
From: majordom
To: ajit
Cc: mbone
Subject: Re: IP mcast per-source pruning
Date: Wednesday, April 17, 1996 11:15AM

>Per-source joining and leaving is not yet supported in IGMP
>(versions 1 and 2).  Version 3 of IGMP has support for specifying an
>explicit set of sources within a group as well as pruning specific
>sources within a group.

Is anyone developing apps with IGMP v3 in mind yet (with filtereque
features), or are all applications being developed specifically  <= v2?

 -Matt

Matthew G. Harrigan             cisco Systems
Internet Systems Engineer       mharrigan@cisco.com
                                408-527-3852 (x63582)


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Apr 22 11:14:34 1996
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From: Dave Thaler <thalerd@eecs.umich.edu>
Message-Id: <199604221914.PAA10397@dip.eecs.umich.edu>
Subject: Announcing MView alpha-release
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 15:14:34 -0400 (EDT)
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We at Merit have been developing a GUI front-end to diagnostic utilities 
such as mrinfo, mtrace, mstat, and mrtree.  An initial alpha-release version 
is now available for ftp, so we can solicit some feedback on what else it 
might do, what could be better, etc.

Some examples of things you can do with it now:
   Produce postscript maps of a limited area
   Display a map of a partial packet distribution tree for a specific group
   Monitor packet rates at a set of SNMP-capable nodes 
   (etc)

Online docs are available at:
   http://www.merit.edu/~mbone/mviewdoc/Welcome.html

Source and binaries (SunOS,Solaris,Alpha,HP) are available in the
directory:
   ftp://ftp.merit.edu/net-research/mbone/mview

Send feedback to:
   mview@umich.edu

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Apr 22 12:17:32 1996
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Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 16:17:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Nova Spivack <nova@earthweb.com>
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Looking for a multicasting consultant...
Message-Id: <Pine.SOL.3.91.960422160413.26698N-100000@fox.earthweb.com>
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Hi,

Is anyone out there available to consult on a very "bleeding-edge"  new
Internet media project which may involve multicasting? We are looking for
a multicasting guru, or at least an IP/UDP super-techy to help us attack
some challenges associated with a new form of live Internet multimedia for
very large audiences. I am looking for a consultant who can work with us
over a period of months on a full/part time basis to develop a scalable
multicasting architecture for this new technology. Please email me a
text-resume or URL of such, and brief introduction, if you are 
interested, and I will provide you with more details if it is 
appropriate. Thank you for your help!

Nova Spivack
nova@earthweb.com



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nova Spivack, Co-Founder, EarthWeb. nova@earthweb.com  http://www.earthweb.com 
3 Park Ave, Fl. 38, New York, NY, 10012. Tel: 212-725-6550. Fax:212-725-6559
Check out GAMELAN, the Java Directory: http://www.gamelan.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Mon Apr 22 13:05:26 1996
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Message-Id: <199604230305.UAA04030@puli.cisco.com>
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Cc: van@ee.lbl.gov
Subject: Re: host mm1-45a.cisco.com doing nasty things to mbone
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 20:05:26 -0700
From: "John M. Zwiebel" <jzwiebel@cisco.com>
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	 I did it.  Sorry.  I should know better.

	John Zwiebel

In <199604220753.AAA02992@rx7.ee.lbl.gov> van@ee.lbl.gov (Van Jacobson) writes:

>host mm1-45a.cisco.com is sending 200 icmp echo requests per second
>(one every 5ms) to multicast address 235.45.45.45 at ttl 255.
>This is not a good idea.

> - Van

> --------------------------
>00:47:30.743492 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
>00:47:30.748295 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
>00:47:30.752626 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
>00:47:30.757151 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
>00:47:30.761630 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
>00:47:30.767567 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
>00:47:30.770449 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
>00:47:30.775833 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
>00:47:30.780058 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
>00:47:30.785432 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
>00:47:30.790031 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
>00:47:30.795611 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
>00:47:30.800282 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
>00:47:30.805010 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
>00:47:30.809725 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
>00:47:30.813737 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
>00:47:30.818218 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
>00:47:30.822981 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
>00:47:30.827253 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
>00:47:30.831530 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
>00:47:30.836247 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
>00:47:30.840300 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
>00:47:30.844963 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
>00:47:30.855936 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
>00:47:30.861006 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
>00:47:30.866144 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
>00:47:30.870986 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
>00:47:30.876026 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
>00:47:30.880503 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
>00:47:30.885052 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
>00:47:30.890265 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
>00:47:30.894250 mm1-45a.cisco.com > 235.45.45.45: icmp: echo request
>...

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr 23 17:04:53 1996
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	(1.37.109.16/15.6) id AA071644693; Tue, 23 Apr 1996 15:04:53 +0200
From: Costas <costas@fbi.fh-darmstadt.de>
Posted-Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 15:04:53 +0200
Received-Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 15:04:53 +0200
Message-Id: <199604231304.AA071644693@pr.fbi.fh-darmstadt.de>
Subject: FH-DARMSTADT
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 96 15:04:52 MESZ
Cc: fahner@rus.uni-stuttgart.de
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   Dear sir

   We install the Videoconference system up to
   HP-UX machines and we cannot find the mrouted3.5
   version which GMD told us to take.

   Can you help us where can we find it ?

				   Yours sincerely
				   FH-DARMSTADT


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Tue Apr 23 17:56:49 1996
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Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 16:56:49 +0100 (BST)
From: Graeme Wood <jaw@ucs.ed.ac.uk>
Reply-To: Graeme.Wood@ucs.ed.ac.uk
To: Costas <costas@fbi.fh-darmstadt.de>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU, fahner@rus.uni-stuttgart.de
Subject: Re: FH-DARMSTADT
In-Reply-To: <199604231304.AA071644693@pr.fbi.fh-darmstadt.de>
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X-Department: "Unix Systems Support, Computing Services"
X-Organisation: "The University of Edinburgh"
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On Tue, 23 Apr 1996, Costas wrote:

>    Dear sir
> 
>    We install the Videoconference system up to
>    HP-UX machines and we cannot find the mrouted3.5
>    version which GMD told us to take.
> 
>    Can you help us where can we find it ?

In case RUS haven't replied to you yet. You will find it there at the 
German MICE National Support Centre. The URL for mrouted 3.8 (3.5 is old) 
is:

ftp://www-ks.rus.uni-stuttgart.de/pub/mice/mrouted/mrouted3.8/mrouted3.8-hp-hpux.tar.gz

This will require modifications to your kernel which are not publicly 
available.  You need to contact HP and ask them to supply you with IP 
Multicast 3.5 for HPUX.

=============================================================================
Graeme Wood                                 Email: Graeme.Wood@ucs.ed.ac.uk
Unix Systems Support                        Phone: +44 131 650 5003
The University of Edinburgh                 Fax:   +44 131 650 6552
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scottish MICE National Support Centre       Email: mice-nsc-scotland@ed.ac.uk
for your multimedia conferencing support    WWW:   http://mice.ed.ac.uk/mice/
=============================================================================


From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr 25 06:22:59 1996
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From: Arlie Davis <arlie@thepoint.net>
To: "'rem-conf@es.net'" <rem-conf@es.net>, "'mbone@isi.edu'"
	 <mbone@ISI.EDU>
Subject: RE: White board or other shared workspace tools on multicast and PC?
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 10:22:59 -0400
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Is the LBL Whiteboard protocol documented anywhere?

-- arlie

----------
From: 	D E PRICE[SMTP:dap@mailhost.aber.ac.uk]
Sent: 	Thursday, April 25, 1996 8:15 AM
To: 	rem-conf@es.net
Cc: 	mice-nsc-wales@aber.ac.uk
Subject: 	White board or other shared workspace tools on multicast and PC?

Dear All,
	We now seem to be seeing several PC / MSwindows tools
appearing to support audio and video multicast etc, but I have yet
to see much in the way of  whiteboard / shared workspace tools.

	Is anyone aware of any tools? do any interwork with WB ?



From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Apr 26 23:00:19 1996
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	id NAA11041 for mbone@isi.edu; Fri, 26 Apr 1996 13:00:20 +1000 (EST)
From: "Richard A. Muirden" <richard@rmit.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199604260300.NAA11041@bofh.its.rmit.EDU.AU>
Subject: multicast 3.5 release and sun4m hangs
To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 13:00:19 +1000 (EST)
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hi multicasters

Running multicast 3.5(3.8 mrouted) on sun4m (SS10) and we get ethernet
(le0) hangs. There is a patch for this availabe from sun (102430-02) but
this breaks multicast (they provide a new if_le.o which doesn't have the
mcast additions). Has anyone integrated this patch into the ipmulti
distrib somehow so I can have multicast *and* the patch? ethernet hangs
on our main newsserver do tend to piss people off :(

-richard

-- 
Richard A. Muirden, Systems & Network Administration / Webmaster / Fanatic   :)
RMIT Information Technology Services (ITS)  *UNIX*   email: richard@rmit.edu.au
I like: Boeing, United(UA), Ansett(AN), Vodka, Trek,  'phone: (+61 3) 9660 3814
Shostakovich. Shost CD's I own: 126.        Web: http://www.rmit.edu.au/richard

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Thu Apr 25 14:37:14 1996
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To: "Richard A. Muirden" <richard@rmit.edu.au>
Cc: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: multicast 3.5 release and sun4m hangs 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 25 Apr 96 20:00:19 PDT."
             <199604260300.NAA11041@bofh.its.rmit.EDU.AU> 
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 21:37:14 PDT
From: Bill Fenner <fenner@parc.xerox.com>
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In message <199604260300.NAA11041@bofh.its.rmit.EDU.AU> you write:
>There is a patch for this availabe from sun (102430-02)

An earlier version of this patch (102430-01) is distributed with the
SunOS multicast distribution as sys.sunos414/sun4?.OBJ/if_le.o.patch
(or if_le.o.bpf.patch, see README-3.5 for details).  Does this help?

  Bill

From majordom@ISI.EDU  Fri Apr 26 05:12:03 1996
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To: mbone@ISI.EDU
Subject: Re: multicast 3.5 release and sun4m hangs 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 25 Apr 1996 21:37:14 -0700.
             <96Apr25.213725pdt.177475@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> 
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 09:12:03 -0400
From: Judi Theg Talley <judi@cs.utk.edu>
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Bill Fenner spoke thusly:

> In message <199604260300.NAA11041@bofh.its.rmit.EDU.AU> you write:
> >There is a patch for this availabe from sun (102430-02)
> 
> An earlier version of this patch (102430-01) is distributed with the
> SunOS multicast distribution as sys.sunos414/sun4?.OBJ/if_le.o.patch
> (or if_le.o.bpf.patch, see README-3.5 for details).  Does this help?
> 

No, this patch is not complete.  We have the same problem at UT.
After I made a SS20 into a fileserver, the box would freeze up
during our daily maintenance routines.  We tracked it to the
daily amanda dump.  After backing out the multicast patch and
installing the new le patch, we can run the dumps.  I was waiting
for a scheduled level 0 to make sure I had caught all