From tgd@cs.orst.edu Sat Aug 2 03:16:56 2003 From: tgd@cs.orst.edu (Tom Dietterich) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 19:16:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [KP] Very drafty thought piece In-Reply-To: <200307291541.IAA26360@gra.isi.edu> (message from Bob Braden on Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:41:00 -0700 (PDT)) References: <200307291541.IAA26360@gra.isi.edu> Message-ID: <200308020216.h722GucF013193@jasper03.CS.ORST.EDU> The standard AI terminology for a "Success Story" would be a "scenario", "script", or "plan". It shows how a correctly-functioning system carries out a sequence of actions to achieve a user's goal. It can be used to detect departures from this sequence of actions, but not necessarily to diagnose their causes. Diagnosis usually requires a more complete model of the system that can be applied to understand and explain incorrect functioning of the system. For example, consider J. Rexford's example of a BGP prepending typo that incorrectly advertises a route through ATT to a customer of a different ISP. One symptom of this is that inside ATT, there is no route to the customer, while outside ATT, all packets intended for that customer appear to be lost. A model-based diagnostic system would need to be able to predict these symptoms given the root cause (or, more precisely, to go backwards from the symptoms to the root cause). I don't see how a Success Story can do this. But suppose instead that we have a high-level specification of BGP (including loop avoidance) encoded in some suitable formal language. Then we should be able to explain these symptoms. --Tom >>>>> "BB" == Bob Braden writes: BB> Dave, BB> I am sure I understand the AI terminology only poorly, but it is BB> my impression that your "success story" is what they might call BB> a "model", and what you are proposing is congruent to "model-based BB> diagnosis". BB> It makes sense to me. BB> Bob BB> _______________________________________________ BB> Know-plane mailing list BB> Know-plane@mailman.isi.edu BB> http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/know-plane From braden@ISI.EDU Fri Aug 15 02:03:00 2003 From: braden@ISI.EDU (Bob Braden) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 18:03:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [KP] (no subject) Message-ID: <200308150103.h7F130o29010@boreas.isi.edu> The electric power grid needs a knowledge plane at least as much as the Internet does. Bob Braden From randy@psg.com Fri Aug 15 02:10:37 2003 From: randy@psg.com (Randy Bush) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 18:10:37 -0700 Subject: [KP] (no subject) References: <200308150103.h7F130o29010@boreas.isi.edu> Message-ID: > The electric power grid needs a knowledge plane at least as much > as the Internet does. nah. just have your house/office/plant multi-homed to two or more power providers and you can cascade them both down. From reh@pnphome.com Fri Aug 15 15:41:20 2003 From: reh@pnphome.com (Richard E. Howard) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 10:41:20 -0400 Subject: [KP] (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000101c3633b$4d006e40$e38ca8c0@rehvaio> What you really need is a business model that supports investment to prevent problems that will likely occur after the CEO retires (or is arrested). Rich Howard richard.e.howard@att.net -----Original Message----- From: know-plane-admin@mailman.isi.edu [mailto:know-plane-admin@mailman.isi.edu] On Behalf Of Randy Bush Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 9:11 PM To: Bob Braden Cc: know-plane@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: [KP] (no subject) > The electric power grid needs a knowledge plane at least as much > as the Internet does. nah. just have your house/office/plant multi-homed to two or more power providers and you can cascade them both down. _______________________________________________ Know-plane mailing list Know-plane@mailman.isi.edu http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/know-plane From faber@ISI.EDU Mon Aug 18 17:36:27 2003 From: faber@ISI.EDU (Ted Faber) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 09:36:27 -0700 Subject: [KP-seed] RE: [KP] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <000101c3633b$4d006e40$e38ca8c0@rehvaio> References: <000101c3633b$4d006e40$e38ca8c0@rehvaio> Message-ID: <20030818163627.GC88549@pun.isi.edu> --1SQmhf2mF2YjsYvc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Fri, Aug 15, 2003 at 10:41:20AM -0400, Richard E. Howard wrote: > What you really need is a business model that supports investment to prevent > problems that will likely occur after the CEO retires (or is arrested). Uh huh. That's called a regulated monopoly. They seem to be out of fashion. --1SQmhf2mF2YjsYvc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/QQCKaUz3f+Zf+XsRAqVKAJ9l45H4k5W/KpzhCXs9LyxCFSpWQQCgvBNI mO4CgkBH1yTmlhomneKRykA= =+PL4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --1SQmhf2mF2YjsYvc--