From bmanning@ISI.EDU Wed Jun 12 08:57:11 2002 Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g5CFvBE08688 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 08:57:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by boreas.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) id g5CFvAo19807; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 08:57:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Manning Message-Id: <200206121557.g5CFvAo19807@boreas.isi.edu> To: dnssec@ISI.EDU Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 08:57:10 -0700 (PDT) Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU (Bill Manning) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [vet-DS]prelim? Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: So... This has taken longer than expected. Based on my recent queries re: implementation catalog, there seems to be enough response to schedule some time to start doing some more formal testing of various DS implementations. Right now, there are three verifiable server implementations and a couple more "in process". No one has indicated availability of DS resolver availability. For planning purposes, a couple of folks have suggested a session would be worthwhile just prior to the upcoming RIPE mtg, perhaps in Reykjavik. Suggestions centering around the end of Sept have been floated. How do these two data points "feel" to the assembled masses? -- --bill From bmanning@ISI.EDU Thu Jun 13 11:27:13 2002 Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g5DIRCE25294 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 11:27:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by boreas.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) id g5DIRA324627; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 11:27:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Manning Message-Id: <200206131827.g5DIRA324627@boreas.isi.edu> In-Reply-To: from Sam Weiler at "Jun 13, 2 00:14:20 am" To: weiler@watson.org (Sam Weiler) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 11:27:10 -0700 (PDT) Cc: dnssec@ISI.EDU X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [vet-DS]areas for testing Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: Thanks for the call. I think that there are a number of areas that DS needs to be exercised: ) internal consistancy - one could take reference implementation and validate that it does what the spec calls for. ) "ease of use" - intuitive tools that help the DNS admin do her job. ADB is not a candidate. Likely to be iumplementation specific ) server/server - here is where we need multiple implementations. ) server/resolver interaction - what is missing is a usable resolver. Some are purported to exist, but nothing offical. Its this last thing that seems to have held up DS testing thus far. I would expect that implementors are doing some internal consistancy checking on their code. Tools are primarly implementation specific (imho) and ther has been some server/server ad-hoc testing. I'd love to see more implementations have the internal checks done and made available for testing under the last two items. -- --bill From weiler@tislabs.com Wed Jun 19 23:38:32 2002 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g5K6cWE28218 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 23:38:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sentry.gw.tislabs.com (firewall-user@sentry.gw.tislabs.com [192.94.214.100]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g5K6cVb19696 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 23:38:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sentry.gw.tislabs.com; id CAA03099; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 02:37:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from raven.gw.tislabs.com(10.33.1.50) by sentry.gw.tislabs.com via smap (V5.5) id xma003080; Thu, 20 Jun 02 02:37:21 -0400 Received: from localhost (weiler@localhost) by raven.gw.tislabs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g5K6c5t05932; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 02:38:05 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 02:38:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Sam Weiler X-X-Sender: To: cc: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [vet-DS]DS code & testing day Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: I'm pleased to announce the availability of Nominum's BIND DS implementation. I'll try to send some documentation in the next few days. ftp://ftp.isc.org/isc/bind9/snapshots/bind-9.3.0s20020618.tar.gz We (Network Associates Laboratories) have done some testing of this code, and I think it's ready for more widespread testing. In particular, I'd like to hold a one (or maybe two) day mini-workshop before the IETF at our offices in Rockville, Maryland. I understand that many who would otherwise attend a workshop may be unable to do so on such short notice and so close to the IETF, but I think there's much to be gained even if we can't get the usual broad participation. To repeat: -- July 3rd (and/or 2nd) -- Rockville, Maryland (near Washington, DC) -- bring-your-own-laptop and network card -- primarily testing with Nominum's DS code announced above If you're interested in attending, please let me know the following: -- would you prefer a one or two day event? -- which of July 2nd and 3rd are you available? -- do you have some other DS implementation (server or resolver) or tools that you'd like to test? -- do you need hotel information? Based on the feedback I receive, I'll try to send a real announcement no later than Monday. -- Sam From brunner@nic-naa.net Thu Jun 20 14:35:42 2002 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g5KLZgE26766 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 14:35:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic-naa.net (216-220-241-233.midmaine.com [216.220.241.233]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g5KLZdb26684 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 14:35:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic-naa.net (localhost.nic-naa.net [127.0.0.1]) by nic-naa.net (8.12.3/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g5KLYU7k012176; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 17:34:31 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from brunner@nic-naa.net) Message-Id: <200206202134.g5KLYU7k012176@nic-naa.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Sam Weiler cc: dnssec@cafax.se, dnssec@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: [vet-DS]DS code & testing day In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 20 Jun 2002 02:38:05 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 17:34:30 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams in Portland Maine Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: Sam, Getting in and out of DC is a little too zooie at present. I can find facilities in Boston if you are interested in a regional. I've cc'd the list in the off-chance there are others with a similar preference. Eric From weiler@tislabs.com Tue Jun 25 19:42:08 2002 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g5Q2g8E13190 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 19:42:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sentry.gw.tislabs.com (firewall-user@sentry.gw.tislabs.com [192.94.214.100]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g5Q2g7b11132 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 19:42:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sentry.gw.tislabs.com; id WAA09027; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 22:41:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from raven.gw.tislabs.com(10.33.1.50) by sentry.gw.tislabs.com via smap (V5.5) id xma009015; Tue, 25 Jun 02 22:40:54 -0400 Received: from localhost (weiler@localhost) by raven.gw.tislabs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g5Q2faS12117; Tue, 25 Jun 2002 22:41:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 22:41:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Sam Weiler X-X-Sender: To: , cc: , In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [vet-DS]Re: DS code & testing day Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: Many thanks to those who sent feedback. We'll be hosting a one-day DS workshop on Wednesday, July 3rd in Rockville, Maryland starting at 9:45AM. The main purpose is to get people working with Nominum's DS code and doing routine zone operations. Some participants will have other implementations and tools, so there'll be a bit of interoperability testing. Please drop a note to dstest@tislabs.com if you'd like to attend. I'll send out trusted keys, delegations, IP assignments, and directions in advance -- let me know if you need any additional information or accomodations. -- Sam On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Sam Weiler wrote: > I'm pleased to announce the availability of Nominum's BIND DS > implementation. I'll try to send some documentation in the next few > days. > > ftp://ftp.isc.org/isc/bind9/snapshots/bind-9.3.0s20020618.tar.gz > > We (Network Associates Laboratories) have done some testing of this > code, and I think it's ready for more widespread testing. In > particular, I'd like to hold a one (or maybe two) day mini-workshop > before the IETF at our offices in Rockville, Maryland. I understand > that many who would otherwise attend a workshop may be unable to do so > on such short notice and so close to the IETF, but I think there's > much to be gained even if we can't get the usual broad participation. From weiler@tislabs.com Mon Jul 15 18:09:19 2002 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6G19IE29753 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 18:09:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sentry.gw.tislabs.com (firewall-user@sentry.gw.tislabs.com [192.94.214.100]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6G19ID04056 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 18:09:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sentry.gw.tislabs.com; id VAA09070; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 21:08:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from raven.gw.tislabs.com(10.33.1.50) by sentry.gw.tislabs.com via smap (V5.5) id xma009049; Tue, 16 Jul 02 01:07:49 GMT Received: from localhost (weiler@localhost) by raven.gw.tislabs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6G18OH05523; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 21:08:24 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 21:08:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Sam Weiler X-X-Sender: To: cc: , , Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [vet-DS]DS mini-workshop results Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: A small DS workshop was held in Rockville on Wednesday, July 3, 2002. Our main goal was to try to identify any showstopper bugs in Nominum's code prior to holding a larger workshop. Attendees included Russ Mundy, Sam Weiler, Scott Rose, Ed Lewis, Wes Griffin, Andy Vaskys, Olafur Gudmundsson, Roger Hartmuller, Lindy Foster, Tom Newell, and Rip Loomis. Quick summary: Nominum's and Olafur's authoritative servers worked and interoperated, to the extent of our testing. There were bugs in Nominum's recursive resolver, but basic cases generally worked as expected. I've listed some of the issues raised. Bug reports have been passed back to Nominum, and a more detailed report may be available later. Item 1: TTLs v. SIG lifetimes. If the SIG on an RRset expires sooner than its TTL, what should the TTL for the cached RRset be? Someone (Ed?) proposed that the TTL should be the minimum of: the TTL on the incoming RR, the original TTL in the SIG, or the remaining time on the SIG. Item 2: TTLs in chains. If you set the TTL to the smallest remaining TTL of all the RRs needed to validate an RRset, then you're restricted to the shortest of the parents' (including the root's) timeouts. Delegations can't set longer timeouts, and, worse, everything under .com will time out at once, pounding the nameservers. Perhaps the TTL should be set to that minimum less some random amount. Item 3: Erroneous AA bits with CNAMES. Assume islands of trust, with a CNAME in one and the associated A in another. Query for the (non-existent) A at the first zone. With no DNSSEC checking enabled, asking a recursive server that's also authoritative for the CNAME zone returns BOTH CNAME and A and sets AA. With DNSSEC, also get AA. In the first case, you're not AA for the A record. In the second, you should be saying AD for the A record, not AA. Asking a recursive only server with only the first zone's key configured gives neither AA nor AD. (perhaps correct) If both keys are configured, you get AD. (correct) Item 4: When DS records or KEYs changed, recursive resolvers that had cached the old records still answered, but gave no AD. Why the change? Shouldn't they still give out ADs until the cache expires? Item 5: Unexplained and inconsistent SERVFAILs asking for DS records from recursive servers, especially when testing islands of trust (see below). Some things tested: DS delegations key rollover AXFR islands of trust: [ signed ] \ [ signed ] / \ [ unsigned ] [ signed ] / [ signed ] / [ signed ] Not tested: deep DS delegations TSIG From david.conrad@nominum.com Mon Jul 15 18:36:48 2002 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6G1amE07799 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 18:36:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shell.nominum.com (shell.nominum.com [128.177.192.160]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6G1amD16943 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 18:36:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [133.93.76.134] (shell.nominum.com [128.177.192.160]) by shell.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C4FE137F02; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 18:36:41 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.0.2006 Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 10:36:40 +0900 Subject: Re: [vet-DS]DS mini-workshop results From: David Conrad To: Sam Weiler , DNS Operations Cc: dnssec , , namedroppers Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: Not to be too pedantic, but in a recent message on namedroppers regarding RFC 1886 interoperability testing, the following was stated: >> 1) The data is most peculiar since nowhere that I could find are X, Y and Z >> identified. If they are somewhere I couldn't find it. Is there a reason >> to keep them obscured? > This is standard procedure in DNSEXT interop testing and reporting. Yet, Nominum gets identified in DS testing: On 7/16/02 10:08 AM, "Sam Weiler" wrote: > Quick summary: Nominum's and Olafur's authoritative servers worked and > interoperated, to the extent of our testing. There were bugs in > Nominum's recursive resolver, but basic cases generally worked as > expected. Might I suggest a bit of consistency here? I'm very much in favor of interop testing, but I'd prefer to avoid the hassle of defending our participation in informal interop events to my marketing/pr folks. Tnx, -drc From randy@psg.com Mon Jul 15 19:40:36 2002 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6G2eaE22632 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:40:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from roam.psg.com (exim@[133.93.74.251]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6G2eZD05396 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:40:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=roam.psg.com.psg.com ident=randy) by roam.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.05) id 17UIGO-0004of-00; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:40:32 +0900 From: Randy Bush MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: David Conrad Cc: Sam Weiler , DNS Operations , dnssec , , namedroppers Subject: Re: [vet-DS]DS mini-workshop results References: Message-Id: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:40:32 +0900 Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: the ietf, itself, does not do interop testing. we do solicit and file interop testing reports. we ask that those reports anonymize the implementations. randy From news@isc.org Mon Jul 15 23:26:59 2002 Received: from isrv4.isc.org (isrv4.isc.org [204.152.184.27]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g6G6QxE13869 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:26:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by isrv4.isc.org (Postfix, from userid 88) id D0D0C727; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:26:49 -0700 (PDT) To: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu From: Sam Weiler (by way of Peter Losher ) Subject: [vet-DS]Re: DS code & testing day Organization: none Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: news.isc.org Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Trace: isrv4.isc.org 1026800804 5466 204.152.184.108 (16 Jul 2002 06:26:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@isc.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Jul 2002 06:26:44 GMT User-Agent: KMail/1.4.1 X-Original-Message-ID: <200207152325.47485.weiler@tislabs.com> Xref: news.isc.org local.mail.dns.dnssec:1 Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:26:49 -0700 (PDT) Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: vet-ds-listMany thanks to those who sent feedback. We'll be hosting a one-day DS workshop on Wednesday, July 3rd in Rockville, Maryland starting at 9:45AM. The main purpose is to get people working with Nominum's DS code and doing routine zone operations. Some participants will have other implementations and tools, so there'll be a bit of interoperability testing. Please drop a note to dstest@tislabs.com if you'd like to attend. I'll send out trusted keys, delegations, IP assignments, and directions in advance -- let me know if you need any additional information or accomodations. -- Sam On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Sam Weiler wrote: > I'm pleased to announce the availability of Nominum's BIND DS > implementation. I'll try to send some documentation in the next few > days. > > ftp://ftp.isc.org/isc/bind9/snapshots/bind-9.3.0s20020618.tar.gz > > We (Network Associates Laboratories) have done some testing of this > code, and I think it's ready for more widespread testing. In > particular, I'd like to hold a one (or maybe two) day mini-workshop > before the IETF at our offices in Rockville, Maryland. I understand > that many who would otherwise attend a workshop may be unable to do so > on such short notice and so close to the IETF, but I think there's > much to be gained even if we can't get the usual broad participation. _______________________________________________ dnssec mailing list dnssec@mailman.isi.edu http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/dnssec From bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com Thu Aug 29 05:04:29 2002 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g7TC4TD25407 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 05:04:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vacation.karoshi.com (vacation.karoshi.com [198.32.6.20]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g7TC4SQ23223 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 05:04:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by vacation.karoshi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA25160; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 12:04:28 GMT From: bmanning@karoshi.com Message-Id: <200208291204.MAA25160@vacation.karoshi.com> To: dnssec@ISI.EDU Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 12:04:27 +0000 (UCT) Cc: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [vet-DS]list & key Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: Morning folks, For the most part, I've either bcc'd or directly emailed you regarding the open DS workshop to be held just prior to the upcoming IETF in Atlanta. Based on a couple of requests for a "real" list, there is now which is being used to distribute this note. http://mailman.isi.edu/mailman/listinfo/dnssec And now, a status update. We are still waiting for a room in Atl. CNRI is working the issue. The testbed is operational & visable using IPv6. The following zones are signed: . arpa. com. int. mil. net. nl. org. The root key has been changed from a 512bit DSA key to a 4096bit RSA/MD5 key. The root key can be picked up using the finger protocol: %finger apex@rs.net There is a web page (under construction) www.rs.net Question. RSA/MD5 or RSA/SHA1 for the root key? --bill From markk@verisignlabs.com Thu Aug 29 08:27:49 2002 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g7TFRnD22780 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 08:27:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (wireless246.east.isi.edu [65.123.202.246]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g7TFRlQ00547 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 08:27:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from markk@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g7TFR2503268; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:27:02 -0400 Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:27:02 -0400 From: Mark Kosters To: bmanning@karoshi.com Cc: dnssec@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: [vet-DS]list & key Message-ID: <20020829152702.GB1737@netsol.com> References: <200208291204.MAA25160@vacation.karoshi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200208291204.MAA25160@vacation.karoshi.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.25i Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: On Thu, Aug 29, 2002 at 12:04:27PM +0000, bmanning@karoshi.com wrote: > Question. RSA/MD5 or RSA/SHA1 for the root key? As per rfc 3110, RSA/SHA1. Mark -- Mark Kosters markk@netsol.com Verisign Applied Research From jas@extundo.com Thu Aug 29 08:57:22 2002 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g7TFvLD03992 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 08:57:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from yxa.extundo.com (178.230.13.217.in-addr.dgcsystems.net [217.13.230.178]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g7TFvGQ13828 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 08:57:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from latte.josefsson.org (yxa.extundo.com [217.13.230.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by yxa.extundo.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g7TFvA2u004301 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 29 Aug 2002 17:57:10 +0200 To: Mark Kosters Cc: bmanning@karoshi.com, dnssec@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: [vet-DS]list & key References: <200208291204.MAA25160@vacation.karoshi.com> <20020829152702.GB1737@netsol.com> X-Hashcash: 0:020829:markk@netsol.com:f0125864aac94955 X-Hashcash: 0:020829:bmanning@karoshi.com:c263337c5e9b981a X-Hashcash: 0:020829:dnssec@ISI.EDU:2d1c9cce665dab8a From: Simon Josefsson Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 17:57:08 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20020829152702.GB1737@netsol.com> (Mark Kosters's message of "Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:27:02 -0400") Message-ID: Lines: 9 User-Agent: Gnus/5.090008 (Oort Gnus v0.08) Emacs/21.3.50 (i686-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,DOUBLE_CAPSWORD version=2.31 Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: Mark Kosters writes: > vet-ds-listOn Thu, Aug 29, 2002 at 12:04:27PM +0000, bmanning@karoshi.com wrote: >> Question. RSA/MD5 or RSA/SHA1 for the root key? > > As per rfc 3110, RSA/SHA1. Or add both, to simulate the procedures necessary when doing a gradual transition from PKCS#2.0/SHA1 to PKCS#2.1/SHA2 or something else. From mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca Wed Sep 11 10:24:32 2002 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g8BHOWD20174 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 10:24:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (cyphermail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca [192.139.46.78]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g8BHOVQ06482 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 10:24:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca [192.139.46.20]) by noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8BHONW00645 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168 bits) verified OK) for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 13:24:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (marajade [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id g8BHOKPC016027 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 13:24:22 -0400 Received: from marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (mcr@localhost) by marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id g8BHNdMI016022 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 13:24:19 -0400 Message-Id: <200209111724.g8BHNdMI016022@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> To: dnssec@ISI.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 13:23:38 -0400 From: Michael Richardson Subject: [vet-DS]pre-IETF interop Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Can someone confirm what days the Interop will occur? ] ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine. | firewalls [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON |net architect[ ] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[ ] panic("Just another Debian GNU/Linux using, kernel hacking, security guy"); [ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Finger me for keys iQCVAwUBPX98F4qHRg3pndX9AQHZewP+L6UI2D30j+25MnELRb7upp9cowdaB+l+ rdvALFrN8AHYZG8L3acOiJqRc30vr8xmVyjl1tL7m2IM/avvKunuWYUH+53cUSPC VWdbnm6R6jqfk8/QVffxCItVVzZDybaLR4R0Bl0aIn/1jz5C75gE8sUFxJXWxeqW 9YJyap0rEOo= =hkzh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From bmanning@ISI.EDU Thu Sep 12 01:14:25 2002 Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g8C8EPD20473 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 01:14:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by boreas.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) id g8C8EM529627; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 01:14:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Manning Message-Id: <200209120814.g8C8EM529627@boreas.isi.edu> Subject: Re: [vet-DS]pre-IETF interop In-Reply-To: <200209111724.g8BHNdMI016022@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> from Michael Richardson at "Sep 11, 2 01:23:38 pm" To: mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (Michael Richardson) Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 01:14:22 -0700 (PDT) Cc: dnssec@ISI.EDU X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: % % Can someone confirm what days the Interop will occur? % We don' tyet have confirmation of the room from CNRI. -- --bill From mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca Thu Sep 12 17:57:08 2002 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g8D0v8D00917 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 17:57:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (cyphermail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca [192.139.46.78]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g8D0v7Q26138 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 17:57:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca [192.139.46.20]) by noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8D0v4W03361 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168 bits) verified OK) for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 20:57:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (marajade [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id g8D0v2PC031145 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK) for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 20:57:03 -0400 Received: from marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (mcr@localhost) by marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id g8D0v0ls031141 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 20:57:01 -0400 Message-Id: <200209130057.g8D0v0ls031141@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> To: dnssec@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: [vet-DS]pre-IETF interop In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 12 Sep 2002 01:14:22 PDT." <200209120814.g8C8EM529627@boreas.isi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 20:56:59 -0400 From: Michael Richardson Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: But, it will be at the Marriot Marquis, right? Wednesday/Thursday/Friday? ] ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine. | firewalls [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON |net architect[ ] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[ ] panic("Just another Debian GNU/Linux using, kernel hacking, security guy"); [ From bmanning@ISI.EDU Thu Sep 12 21:01:46 2002 Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g8D41kD11969 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 21:01:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by boreas.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) id g8D41hU29807; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 21:01:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Manning Message-Id: <200209130401.g8D41hU29807@boreas.isi.edu> Subject: Re: [vet-DS]pre-IETF interop In-Reply-To: <200209130057.g8D0v0ls031141@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> from Michael Richardson at "Sep 12, 2 08:56:59 pm" To: mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (Michael Richardson) Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 21:01:43 -0700 (PDT) Cc: dnssec@ISI.EDU X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: % But, it will be at the Marriot Marquis, right? % Wednesday/Thursday/Friday? not unless we get a room. -- --bill From edlewis@arin.net Fri Sep 13 01:07:07 2002 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g8D877D03485 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 01:07:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [192.149.252.33]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g8D876Q14833 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 01:07:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ops.arin.net (ops.arin.net [192.149.252.141]) by smtp1.arin.net (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g8D874RF086127; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 04:07:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [193.0.9.238] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ops.arin.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id EAA10921; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 04:06:57 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: edlewis@127.0.0.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200209130057.g8D0v0ls031141@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> References: <200209130057.g8D0v0ls031141@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 11:06:53 +0300 To: Michael Richardson , dnssec@ISI.EDU From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [vet-DS]pre-IETF interop Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: At 8:56PM -0400 9/12/02, Michael Richardson wrote: >vet-ds-list > But, it will be at the Marriot Marquis, right? My understanding is that this has not been decided. > Wednesday/Thursday/Friday? My understanding is that it looks like Thu-Fri-Sat. Be forewarned, my "understanding" is very unofficial as I am not involved in planning the logistics of the event. I.e., I personally won't refund the $100US ticket change cost if the dates change. ;) -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-703-227-9854 ARIN Research Engineer From mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca Fri Sep 13 08:26:27 2002 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g8DFQRD07178 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 08:26:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (cyphermail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca [192.139.46.78]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g8DFQPQ25582 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 08:26:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca [192.139.46.20]) by noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8DFQIW04946 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168 bits) verified OK) for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 11:26:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (marajade [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id g8DFQHPC003569 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK) for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 11:26:18 -0400 Received: from marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (mcr@localhost) by marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id g8DFQGd8003564 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 11:26:16 -0400 Message-Id: <200209131526.g8DFQGd8003564@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> To: dnssec@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: [vet-DS]pre-IETF interop In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 12 Sep 2002 21:01:43 PDT." <200209130401.g8D41hU29807@boreas.isi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 11:26:15 -0400 From: Michael Richardson Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>> "Bill" == Bill Manning writes: Bill> % But, it will be at the Marriot Marquis, right? Bill> % Wednesday/Thursday/Friday? Bill> not unless we get a room. Fair enough. I can cancel reservations easier than make them :-) BTW: I had to speak to the Group Reservations person to get a room for Wednesday. Seems that only 20 rooms were booked in the block before Saturday night, so if you ask for the IETF rate starting on the 13th (which is when the block starts), then you will be told "block sold out", when in fact it is just Wed/Thur/Fri that is sold out. ] ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine. | firewalls [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON |net architect[ ] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[ ] panic("Just another Debian GNU/Linux using, kernel hacking, security guy"); [ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Finger me for keys iQCVAwUBPYIDlYqHRg3pndX9AQGDJgP7BsMSnWDWIaYwYgB93O7NfC91IkWjepkh OsyuHpNw8xCW+mN4WCAlfS6NMyEXHrmBpDUg/NzGGRDjn3IA6YMLmEtwCy9wclwA OeM28iix1z+O+RbweY4+Lhxg+Gmkg6qF4COmW2505Vb/MaYzGKA6n06rLQvnd71V R9NukPVMiH4= =035+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From bmanning@ISI.EDU Fri Sep 27 07:04:24 2002 Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g8RE4OD27350 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 07:04:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by boreas.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) id g8RE4Gg02990; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 07:04:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Manning Message-Id: <200209271404.g8RE4Gg02990@boreas.isi.edu> To: dnssec@cafex.se, keydist@cafex.se Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 07:04:16 -0700 (PDT) Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU (Bill Manning), dnssec@ISI.EDU X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [vet-DS] November testing? Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: So, we seem to be able to get space for the following dates: 14-16 nov 2003 if there is still interest in open testing of DS capabilities. There have been two workshops, one at NAI and one at ISIeast. Results of the NAI workshop have been posted. I've not seen any formal results from the ISIeast workshop. I've seen the following behaviours that may need further work. - key length and fragmentation - key distribution techniques / validation - multiple active keys / algorithms - root key rollover / resolver issues There are a couple of TLDs that are participating, some that indicated they would be interested but have not stepped forward. At this time, it does not look like there is enough interest to hold an open testing session so unless I get confirmation from at least 15 people, I'm planning on releasing the space and canceling. --bill From bmanning@ISI.EDU Mon Oct 7 10:47:38 2002 Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g97HlbD09236 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 10:47:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by boreas.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) id g97Hla614394; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 10:47:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Manning Message-Id: <200210071747.g97Hla614394@boreas.isi.edu> Subject: [vet-DS] November testing To: dnssec@cafex.se, keydist@cafex.se, dnssec@ISI.EDU Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 10:47:36 -0700 (PDT) Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU (Bill Manning) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: 14-16 nov 2003 is locked in for DS testing dates. We really need to have better code than the 0722 snapshot from ISC for this workshop. I've seen the following behaviours that may need further work. - key length and fragmentation - key distribution techniques / validation - multiple active keys / algorithms - root key rollover / resolver issues There are a couple of TLDs that are participating, some that indicated they would be interested but have not stepped forward. =================================================== I've locked in the space, so there can be a workshop. Please confirm your attendence by providing the zones you will be signing, your email address, and the things you would like to test. --bill From yasuhiro@jprs.co.jp Tue Oct 8 11:33:40 2002 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g98IXdD23688 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 11:33:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx1.nic.ad.jp (mx1.nic.ad.jp [202.12.30.137]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g98IXbQ28296; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 11:33:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spool.nic.ad.jp (spool.nic.ad.jp [192.168.10.252]) by mx1.nic.ad.jp (8.9.3+3.1W/3.7W) with ESMTP id DAA19328; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 03:33:28 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from yasuhiro@jprs.co.jp) Received: from ssh-tunnel (fssec2.nic.ad.jp [192.168.10.245]) by spool.nic.ad.jp (8.9.3+3.1W/3.7W/JPNIC-spool.def,v-1.13-2001052515) with ESMTP id DAA04069; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 03:33:28 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from yasuhiro@jprs.co.jp) Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 03:33:19 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20021009.033319.107714791.yasuhiro@girl.jprs.co.jp> To: bmanning@ISI.EDU Cc: dnssec@cafax.se, keydist@cafax.se, dnssec@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: [vet-DS] November testing From: Yasuhiro Morishita / =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCPzkyPEJZOSgbKEI=?= In-Reply-To: <200210071747.g97Hla614394@boreas.isi.edu> References: <200210071747.g97Hla614394@boreas.isi.edu> Organization: Japan Registry Service Co.,Ltd. (JPRS) X-Mailer: Mew version 3.0.66 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.1 (AOI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: // Just I've corrected header line from cafex.se to cafax.se. :-) Bill-san, > I've locked in the space, so there can be a workshop. > > Please confirm your attendence by providing the zones > you will be signing, your email address, and the things > you would like to test. My name is Yasuhiro 'Orange' Morishita, a researcher/engineer of JPRS. I met to you Yokohama IETF and APNIC OPM at Kitakyushu. Do you remember me? JPRS (Japan Registry Service Co.,Ltd.) is a registry of .JP domain. We have contracted with ICANN and JP registry has been moved from JPNIC to JPRS since April 1, 2002. Fujiwara (he also met to you at Kitakyushu) and I will attend the workshop on behalf of JPRS. I heard that Mr. Sekiya also will attend on behalf of WIDE Project. And we are now preparing to connect your DNSSEC testbed as '.JP' domain. We are making DNSSEC/IPv6 environment by using BIND 9.3.0 snapshot on our network, and we will complete our jobs for it within October. Best regards, -- Yasuhiro 'Orange' Morishita, Research and Development department Japan Registry Service Co.,Ltd. (JPRS) E-Mail: yasuhiro@jprs.jp From olaf@ripe.net Mon Nov 11 07:51:40 2002 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gABFpeD16100 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 07:51:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from birch.ripe.net (birch.ripe.net [193.0.1.96]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gABFpaa21561 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 07:51:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from x50.ripe.net (x50.ripe.net [193.0.1.50]) by birch.ripe.net (8.12.5/8.11.6) with SMTP id gABFpQJc017993; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 16:51:26 +0100 Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 16:51:26 +0100 From: "Olaf M. Kolkman" To: dnssec@ISI.EDU Cc: DISI@ripe.net Message-Id: <20021111165126.63bff4fa.olaf@ripe.net> Organization: RIPE NCC X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.2 (GTK+ 1.2.9; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Multipart_Mon__11_Nov_2002_16:51:26_+0100_08257ec0" Subject: [vet-DS] DNSSEC key maintenance tools Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Multipart_Mon__11_Nov_2002_16:51:26_+0100_08257ec0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Vet-DS testers, Attached are some tools I am working on. The tools and the documentation are not finished yet but because of next week's workshop I've decided to send them to this list. I'd appreciate it if you would like to act as alpha tester and give me feedback on the interface and usability. The tools consists out of a interface to a key database and a signer. The signer uses the key database directly during zone signing. You do not have to bother with including keysets and trying to recall what your keyset signing key and your zone signing key was. Even your SOA serial will be updated. Please do not distribute as the tools are not finished yet (e.g. documentation is not fully consistent, the applications are not taint safe yet). Let me know if you have installation problems, if the documentation is unclear or if you find blatant bugs. Below is the README.dnssigner from the DNSSEC-MAINT tar ball which --Olaf PS. Did I put all the disclaimers in and told you this is ongoing work? :-) PS2 Is there a new bind snapshot or will we work with 20020722? --------------------------------------------| Olaf M. Kolkman | www.ripe.net/disi DNSSEC::Maint package. Standalone dnssigner with keymaintenance database. PURPOSE The this program suite is to ease DNSSEC key management. The suite contains, besides a number of libraries, two programs: maintkeydb - A shell in which you maintain your keys dnssigner - A signer that uses the keydatabase to sign zones. dnssec-copyprivate - Copys keypairs out of the keydatabase to a different location (Useful in combination with a dynamic zone.) INSTALL In short: - Install packages - Create group dnssecmt - Run dnssecmaint-config - Create log and database directory with proper file permissions. To install the the program suite you have to install DNSSEC::Maint: and DNSSEC::Maint::Zone unpack the distribution and in the distribution do: perl Makefile.PL If you have get like "Warning: prerequisite XML::LibXML failed to load" you have to install these prerequisites using CPAN first. make make install To run the program in an environment where multiple users need to access the system you have to create a group called "dnssecmt" in /etc/group. (The name of the group can be specified in the configuration file as well). The program uses a number of defaults that can be overwritten by a configuration file or a set of environment variables. Use the program 'dnssecmaint-config' to write a configuration file. By default the configuration file resides in /usr/local/etc/dnssecmaint.conf. You may use the DNSSECMAINT_CONFFILE environment variable to point to another path. Per default the keydatabase resides in /usr/local/var/dnssec_maint/DNS_KEY_DB and logging is done in /usr/local/var/dnssec_maint/log. Make sure these directories exists and that the group permissions are set correctly. Example setup session. After installing DNSSEC::Maint and DNSSEC::Maint::Zone and after adding dnssecmt to /etc/group perform the following as root: # mkdir /usr/local/var/dnssec_maint/ # mkdir /usr/local/var/dnssec_maint/DNS_KEY_DB # mkdir /usr/local/var/dnssec_maint/log # chmod -R o-rwx /usr/local/var/dnssec_maint # chgrp -R dnssecmt /usr/local/var/dnssec_maint # chmod -R g+rwX /usr/local/var/dnssec_maint # dnssecmain-config <... input/output skipped > USAGE Start maintkeydb and type 'help' to see all the commands. Type 'add' to add a key. Type 'rollover' to perform key rollovers After you added keys to the system with the maintain shell you can sign your zone by calling dnssigner.pl type 'man dnssigner.pl' for more information on the flags. Note: rollovers will only work if you have one key and one zonesigning key for a zone. Example session As a user who is a member of the 'dnssecmt' group fire up "maintkeydb" olaf> maintkeydb keys> create keys (enter algorithm)> RSASHA1 keys (keysigning|zonesigning)> keysigning keys (enter keysize)> 2048 keys (enter name)> secret-wg.org. + Generating key, may take a while Important directory does not exist DNS_Key_DB in DNSSEC::Maint::Config is set to /usr/local/var/dnssec_maint/DNS_Key_DB This directory has been created but contact your system adminstator this problem may be a symptom of other problems + A RSASHA1 key for 'secret-wg.org.' has been created with KeyID: 58907 + No active key signing keys found. + Status is set to active by default + Key with keyID 58907 toggled to ACTIVE state secret-wg.org. IN KEY 256 3 5 ( AQO7bPAIXPKZru4J8mBITLu1FXzJ/6wgyiZOh+6DqYZKaRohw1qTgnok vzY4eFYhup1Tb0ZDeJ0bFrvo3lTxm2pxuLAENetKHRysw/YtbtLle3xL Ob7wvGGgXfTB7VW5K8b/TL/oGB6lUav1cFwyhDL4R8dTzHhIqIqc8jaX qZG1oy+0iazga5G84MRctLAnpU+L3Q5EUxdSbTaZpj0lbrkb95K55icE 4vaFk4PSETLiqWbn2Sx9JwuU+SN8qrUnVN7yrsbTRoxsVdenSz8RL1IK E8N6+opnl6vIaXYx/+K5AkaUK6L5O7VsI9BB2c2OwOT/dYpdZImeeYfl APA5kK61 ) keys> create keys (enter algorithm)> RSASHA1 keys (keysigning|zonesigning)> zonesigning keys (enter keysize)> 768 keys (enter name)> secret-wg.org + A RSASHA1 key for 'secret-wg.org' has been created with KeyID: 24827 + No active zone signing keys found. + Status is set to active by default + Key with keyID 24827 toggled to ACTIVE state secret-wg.org. IN KEY 256 3 5 ( AQOtHzpVlhjkJXdxHSTcZ5qi5l0wz9d30ZkwNVCAj7vf3+A2VPyx4kjr 2MBPO4DhVinu3aEz/mPNrgNbbwvOaf7q9PszNrmNPrH4vw0j881MJHi7 J+9PJdk1wZCoG/5v278= ) keys> exit olaf> dnssigner -o secret-wg.org. secret-wg.org.signed Output written to :secret-wg.org.signed.singed olaf> Example script for Dynamic zones A script that uses the various commands to keep signatures in dynamic zones up to date can be found in the example directory of directory of DNSSEC::Maint::Zone. COPYRIGHT Copyright Notice and Disclaimer Copyright (c) 2002 RIPE NCC. Author Olaf M. Kolkman All Rights Reserved Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this software and its documentation for any purpose and without fee is hereby granted, provided that the above copyright notice appear in all copies and that both that copyright notice and this permission notice appear in supporting documentation, and that the name of the author not be used in advertising or publicity pertaining to distribution of the software without specific, written prior permission. THE AUTHOR DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES WITH REGARD TO THIS SOFTWARE, INCLUDING ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS; IN NO EVENT SHALL AUTHOR BE LIABLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INDIRECT OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES OR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER RESULTING FROM LOSS OF USE, DATA OR PROFITS, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, NEGLIGENCE OR OTHER TORTIOUS ACTION, ARISING OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE USE OR PERFORMANCE OF THIS SOFTWARE. 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fK0DGY77XI7N9wDYd3kculdAzMieN/ugPe/TNvD0PD1Pz//g8/83EFYLAOABAA== --Multipart_Mon__11_Nov_2002_16:51:26_+0100_08257ec0-- From mayer@gis.net Sun Nov 17 16:25:55 2002 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gAI0PtD29562 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 16:25:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from gis.net (mx03.gis.net [208.218.130.11]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gAI0PsL13166 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 16:25:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from tecotoo.www.gis.net ([63.214.99.94]) by mx03.gis.net; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 19:25:51 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tecotoo.www.gis.net (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id pa029213 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 19:25:55 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20021117192309.03856920@pop.gis.net> X-Sender: mayer@pop.gis.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 19:25:46 -0500 To: "Olaf M. Kolkman" , dnssec@ISI.EDU From: Danny Mayer Subject: Re: [vet-DS] DNSSEC key maintenance tools Cc: DISI@ripe.net In-Reply-To: <20021111165126.63bff4fa.olaf@ripe.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Info: NTMail 3.02 Server on TECOTOO X-Rcpt-To: Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: At 10:51 AM 11/11/02, Olaf M. Kolkman wrote: >PS2 Is there a new bind snapshot or will we work with 20020722? A new snapshot dated 20021113 was posted on Wednesday in the usual ISC FTP site. Danny P.S. Is your clock way off or did ISI hold up the mail? From olaf@ripe.net Mon Nov 18 04:35:26 2002 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gAICZQD01978 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 04:35:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from birch.ripe.net (birch.ripe.net [193.0.1.96]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gAICZPL19893 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 04:35:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from ripe.net (cow.ripe.net [193.0.1.239]) by birch.ripe.net (8.12.5/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gAICZIZl001302; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:35:18 +0100 Message-Id: <200211181235.gAICZIZl001302@birch.ripe.net> cc: dnssec@ISI.EDU, DISI@ripe.net Subject: Re: [vet-DS] DNSSEC key maintenance tools In-Reply-To: Message from "Olaf M. Kolkman" of "Mon, 11 Nov 2002 16:51:26 +0100." <20021111165126.63bff4fa.olaf@ripe.net> Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:35:18 +0100 From: Olaf Kolkman Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: For some reason this mail got stuck in the ISI queue. Do not use the attached tools, some bugs where found during the testing. I will release these tools in the (hopefully near) future on www.ripe.net/disi/. Contact me if you want a patched snapshot in the mean time. --Olaf From mcr@cyphermail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca Fri Dec 27 15:14:55 2002 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gBRNEtD16479 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2002 15:14:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (cyphermail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca [192.139.46.78]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gBRNErb06533; Fri, 27 Dec 2002 15:14:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca [192.139.46.20]) by noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id gBRNEiQ29731 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168 bits) verified OK); Fri, 27 Dec 2002 18:14:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (marajade [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id gBRNEdOT032606 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK); Fri, 27 Dec 2002 18:14:41 -0500 Received: from marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (mcr@localhost) by sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id gBRNEcNW032602; Fri, 27 Dec 2002 18:14:39 -0500 Message-Id: <200212272314.gBRNEcNW032602@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> To: dnssec@ISI.EDU, Bill Manning CC: hugh@freeswan.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 24 Dec 2002 14:27:38 +0100." <200212241327.gBODRcvP028433@birch.ripe.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 18:14:38 -0500 From: Michael Richardson Subject: [vet-DS] workshops Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- There was talk in Atlanta about having another workshop either before or after IETF56. i.e. in March. I generally prefer to give my family as much advance notice as possible (not to mention the airlines are cheaper) of what is going on. Bill, can we decide: 1) if we are having one. 2) more clearly, what we will be doing at it. 3) if it should be before or after the IETF. My comments: 1) yes, we should. 2) I think that we should do what Bill initially wanted, which was to setup a test bed that is *out there*. Doing it over IPv6 is fine with me, but we need a lot more advance coordination of things. 3) I do not have a problem with it being before. In fact, we might just find it easiest to help setup the network ourselves so that we can use it. For that reason, arrival on Thursday, with work on Friday/Saturday might be best. I think that keeping the IETF network around longer is harder, than getting it alive earlier. {I wonder if some of the lists might be renamed. I have: dnssec - deployment issues for .nl dnssec \ not sure how these differ dnssec / anymore. } ] ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine. | firewalls [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON |net architect[ ] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[ ] panic("Just another Debian GNU/Linux using, kernel hacking, security guy"); [ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Finger me for keys iQCVAwUBPgze1YqHRg3pndX9AQF4qwQAoL/CyB7Bkkx/JWLzI+vldluWbXdv2faU ES3nIkQm1e5xA1EDuM3bU+avWAMmso0ABni7Mojp/TMS4U7eHlcZFZm5Ku9zFC8W TpLSB99fbIW88n6Rg29LdMvRTNsPlfhMXtjflbW8dZgCPuV3aKwYaHyXLic5/Knk oY9p65Whf3w= =sVV9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mansaxel@sunet.se Sat Dec 28 13:28:14 2002 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gBSLSED28263 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2002 13:28:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from slimsixten.besserwisser.org (root@async69.modempool.kth.se [130.237.10.69]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id gBSLSAb18333; Sat, 28 Dec 2002 13:28:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.besserwisser.org (mansaxel@localhost.pilsnet.sunet.se [127.0.0.1]) by slimsixten.besserwisser.org (8.12.6/8.12.2) with ESMTP id gBSLRZYx015556; Sat, 28 Dec 2002 22:27:40 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 11:34:35 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E5ns_Nilsson?= To: dnssec@ISI.EDU cc: Michael Richardson , Bill Manning , hugh@freeswan.org, jakob@crt.se Subject: Re: [vet-DS] workshops Message-ID: <244210000.1041071675@localhost> In-Reply-To: <200212272314.gBRNEcNW032602@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> References: <200212272314.gBRNEcNW032602@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> X-Mailer: Mulberry/2.2.1 (OpenBSD/x86) X-PGP-KEY: http://vvv.besserwisser.org/key MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by gamma.isi.edu id gBSLSED28263 Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - --On Friday, December 27, 2002 18:14:38 -0500 Michael Richardson wrote: > 1) yes, we should. Agree. > 2) I think that we should do what Bill initially wanted, which was to > setup a test bed that is *out there*. Doing it over IPv6 is fine > with me, but we need a lot more advance coordination of things. Agree. Jakob and others are setting up a more production-like .SE test, which probably could be integrated. > 3) I do not have a problem with it being before. In fact, we might just > find it easiest to help setup the network ourselves so that we can > use it. For that reason, arrival on Thursday, with work on > Friday/Saturday might be best. > I think that keeping the IETF network around longer is harder, than > getting it alive earlier. Agree. - -- Måns Nilsson Systems Specialist +46 70 681 7204 KTHNOC MN1334-RIPE We're sysadmins. To us, data is a protocol-overhead. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (OpenBSD) iD8DBQE+DX4702/pMZDM1cURAto7AJ9MzPEy1uxlrbd6ctiuyrJbrknsrQCfW8VT zbpGMXnmBmYBUTOrQ7du16c= =b3kD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From bmanning@ISI.EDU Wed Jan 15 13:44:00 2003 Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0FLi0D26657 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:44:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by boreas.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) id h0FLhqk29676; Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:43:52 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Manning Message-Id: <200301152143.h0FLhqk29676@boreas.isi.edu> Subject: Re: [vet-DS] workshops In-Reply-To: <200212272314.gBRNEcNW032602@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> from Michael Richardson at "Dec 27, 2 06:14:38 pm" To: mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (Michael Richardson) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:43:52 -0800 (PST) Cc: dnssec@ISI.EDU, bmanning@ISI.EDU, hugh@freeswan.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: % There was talk in Atlanta about having another workshop either before % or after IETF56. i.e. in March. I generally prefer to give my family % as much advance notice as possible (not to mention the airlines are cheaper) % of what is going on. % % Bill, can we decide: % 1) if we are having one. % 2) more clearly, what we will be doing at it. % 3) if it should be before or after the IETF. % % % My comments: % 1) yes, we should. % % 2) I think that we should do what Bill initially wanted, which was to % setup a test bed that is *out there*. Doing it over IPv6 is fine with % me, but we need a lot more advance coordination of things. % % 3) I do not have a problem with it being before. In fact, we might just % find it easiest to help setup the network ourselves so that we can use % it. For that reason, arrival on Thursday, with work on Friday/Saturday % might be best. % I think that keeping the IETF network around longer is harder, than % getting it alive earlier. % % {I wonder if some of the lists might be renamed. I have: % % dnssec - deployment issues for .nl % dnssec \ not sure how these differ % dnssec / anymore. % } okydoky. 1) I've put in for a room, in venue, for 13-15 march 2) what... kind of depends on the fate of DS, but I expect to try and nail down participants that are willing to do more with the persistant v6 testbed. If so, much can be done prior to the actual mtg. 3) before... (I'm expecting to be coming back from Oz on the 12th) wrt list rename... the dnssec@isi.edu is primarly for coordinating of public w/s activities. dnssec@cafax.se seems to have a different charter. --bill Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise). From olaf@ripe.net Thu Jan 16 01:37:01 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0G9b1D03389 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 01:37:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from birch.ripe.net (birch.ripe.net [193.0.1.96]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0G9b0b27086; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 01:37:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from x50.ripe.net (x50.ripe.net [193.0.1.50]) by birch.ripe.net (8.12.5/8.11.6) with SMTP id h0G9XBAq021470; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:33:11 +0100 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:33:10 +0100 From: "Olaf M. Kolkman" To: Bill Manning Cc: mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca, dnssec@ISI.EDU, bmanning@ISI.EDU, hugh@freeswan.org, disi@ripe.net Subject: Re: [vet-DS] workshops Message-Id: <20030116103310.3910deeb.olaf@ripe.net> In-Reply-To: <200301152143.h0FLhqk29676@boreas.isi.edu> References: <200212272314.gBRNEcNW032602@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> <200301152143.h0FLhqk29676@boreas.isi.edu> Organization: RIPE NCC X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.2 (GTK+ 1.2.9; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: > > 1) I've put in for a room, in venue, for 13-15 march > 2) what... kind of depends on the fate of DS, but I expect > to try and nail down participants that are willing to > do more with the persistant v6 testbed. If so, much > can be done prior to the actual mtg. I am willing (actually eager :-) to partake in a workshop. But joining a persistent testbeb, with a production domain, under the test-root is something that I am hesitant about. The main reason is that I think that except for the added security the two namespaces (the one from the test and the IANA root) should be exactly identical. I am afraid that I do not have the resources to guarantee consistency in the long run. That said, I can off course participate with non-production, i.e. a toy forward domain. Let me know if I am welcome so I can start arranging travel. > 3) before... (I'm expecting to be coming back from Oz on the > 12th) > See you soon... --Olaf --------------------------------------------| Olaf M. Kolkman | www.ripe.net/disi From bmanning@ISI.EDU Thu Jan 16 06:44:11 2003 Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0GEiBD23965 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 06:44:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by boreas.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) id h0GEi0w13834; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 06:44:00 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Manning Message-Id: <200301161444.h0GEi0w13834@boreas.isi.edu> Subject: Re: [vet-DS] workshops In-Reply-To: <20030116103310.3910deeb.olaf@ripe.net> from "Olaf M. Kolkman" at "Jan 16, 3 10:33:10 am" To: olaf@ripe.net (Olaf M. Kolkman) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 06:44:00 -0800 (PST) Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca, dnssec@ISI.EDU, hugh@freeswan.org, disi@ripe.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: % % > % > 1) I've put in for a room, in venue, for 13-15 march % > 2) what... kind of depends on the fate of DS, but I expect % > to try and nail down participants that are willing to % > do more with the persistant v6 testbed. If so, much % > can be done prior to the actual mtg. % % I am willing (actually eager :-) to partake in a workshop. But joining % a persistent testbeb, with a production domain, under the test-root is % something that I am hesitant about. The main reason is that I think % that except for the added security the two namespaces (the one from % the test and the IANA root) should be exactly identical. I am afraid % that I do not have the resources to guarantee consistency in the long % run. % % That said, I can off course participate with non-production, i.e. a % toy forward domain. % % Let me know if I am welcome so I can start arranging travel. of course you are welcome. let me spend a couple of hours constructing a testbed structure that can be de-linked from the live space. we'll need this anyway for other workshops. % % % > 3) before... (I'm expecting to be coming back from Oz on the % > 12th) % > % % See you soon... % % % --Olaf % % --------------------------------------------| Olaf M. Kolkman % | www.ripe.net/disi % -- --bill Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise). From brunner@nic-naa.net Thu Jan 16 07:36:04 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0GFa4D08794 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 07:36:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from nic-naa.net (216-220-241-233.midmaine.com [216.220.241.233]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0GFa3b23312 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 07:36:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from nic-naa.net (localhost.nic-naa.net [127.0.0.1]) by nic-naa.net (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h0GFZMZ2016695; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:35:22 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brunner@nic-naa.net) Message-Id: <200301161535.h0GFZMZ2016695@nic-naa.net> To: Bill Manning cc: olaf@ripe.net (Olaf M. Kolkman), mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca, dnssec@ISI.EDU, hugh@freeswan.org, disi@ripe.net, brunner@nic-naa.net Subject: Re: [vet-DS] workshops In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 16 Jan 2003 06:44:00 PST." <200301161444.h0GEi0w13834@boreas.isi.edu> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:35:22 -0500 From: Eric Brunner-Williams in Portland Maine Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: what is the DS snapshot this time? 20021113? From bmanning@ISI.EDU Thu Jan 16 08:23:58 2003 Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0GGNwD25826 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:23:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by boreas.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) id h0GGNds16887; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:23:39 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Manning Message-Id: <200301161623.h0GGNds16887@boreas.isi.edu> Subject: Re: [vet-DS] workshops In-Reply-To: <200301161535.h0GFZMZ2016695@nic-naa.net> from Eric Brunner-Williams in Portland Maine at "Jan 16, 3 10:35:22 am" To: brunner@nic-naa.net (Eric Brunner-Williams in Portland Maine) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:23:39 -0800 (PST) Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, olaf@ripe.net, mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca, dnssec@ISI.EDU, hugh@freeswan.org, disi@ripe.net, brunner@nic-naa.net X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: % what is the DS snapshot this time? 20021113? the most recent I have is: bind-9.3.0s20021217.tar.gz --bill Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise). From mcr@cyphermail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca Thu Jan 16 11:14:43 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0GJEhD22322 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:14:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (cyphermail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca [192.139.46.78]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0GJEgb16541 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:14:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca [192.139.46.20]) by noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0GJEWQ11228 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168 bits) verified OK); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:14:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (marajade [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h0GJEMJP010899 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:14:26 -0500 Received: from marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (mcr@localhost) by marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h0GJEL0q010896; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:14:22 -0500 Message-Id: <200301161914.h0GJEL0q010896@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> To: dnssec@ISI.EDU cc: hugh@freeswan.org Subject: Re: [vet-DS] workshops In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:43:52 PST." <200301152143.h0FLhqk29676@boreas.isi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:14:19 -0500 From: Michael Richardson Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>> "Bill" == Bill Manning writes: Bill> % Bill, can we decide: Bill> % 1) if we are having one. Bill> % 2) more clearly, what we will be doing at it. Bill> % 3) if it should be before or after the IETF. Bill> okydoky. Bill> 1) I've put in for a room, in venue, for 13-15 march Excellent. Bill> 2) what... kind of depends on the fate of DS, but I expect Bill> to try and nail down participants that are willing to Bill> do more with the persistant v6 testbed. If so, much Bill> can be done prior to the actual mtg. Agreed. I have poor v6 connectivity (i.e. 2002: only) at this time, since IPv6 died at crc.ca. I am hoping to fix that soon. I have zones alive that are signed and are available via IPv6. I thought that were were going to have to sign arpa. already. I think that we can avoid the grandparent problem for the moment now that we know about it. Bill> 3) before... (I'm expecting to be coming back from Oz on the Bill> 12th) Bill> wrt list rename... the dnssec@isi.edu is primarly for coordinating of public Bill> w/s activities. dnssec@cafax.se seems to have a different charter. May I suggest dnssec@isi.edu be renamed to dnssec-workshops@isi.edu or dnssec-testbed@isi.edu or something? ] ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine. | firewalls [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON |net architect[ ] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[ ] panic("Just another Debian GNU/Linux using, kernel hacking, security guy"); [ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Finger me for keys iQCVAwUBPicEiIqHRg3pndX9AQEXUgQAi6BhMN6zxI3Zfsqb0jI+Dnu1uqW4amhY GcjqNDRwj9yAPFTjMXkH6naSJhmvZy7Gi+WJmLuJsAfW0hi9ak3AWsqqmKmB7nDj 0fYT1/Wfg0xPZw4k8iUXBHX5GRGM7Vqt1BFJNieswuQyiJSS/ZSJKUpffYdEKYae uBlhyGMcXxI= =6RvS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From scottr@antd.nist.gov Thu Jan 16 12:05:40 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0GK5YD21400 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:05:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from fs3.antd.nist.gov (fs3.antd.nist.gov [129.6.50.151]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0GK5Pb20132 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:05:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from BARNACLE (barnacle.antd.nist.gov [129.6.55.185]) by fs3.antd.nist.gov (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id h0GK5S608040 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:05:28 -0500 Message-ID: <005d01c2bd9a$9b5e58a0$b9370681@antd.nist.gov> From: "Scott Rose" To: References: <200301161914.h0GJEL0q010896@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> Subject: Re: [vet-DS] workshops Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:05:24 -0500 Organization: NIST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: > > Bill> wrt list rename... the dnssec@isi.edu is primarly for coordinating of public > Bill> w/s activities. dnssec@cafax.se seems to have a different charter. > > May I suggest dnssec@isi.edu be renamed to dnssec-workshops@isi.edu or > dnssec-testbed@isi.edu or something? > If I'm not mistaken, dnssec@cafax.se is an older list used to discuss "dnssec general stuff" that would bog down the namedroppers list - ie sidbar discussions, wild ideas, etc... It was used in the past to talk about workshops also, but that was before workshops became a cottage industry in dnssec land. There are multiple dnssec related lists. changing the dnssec@isi.edu list name gets my vote - if it ends up more descriptive that is :) Scott From edlewis@arin.net Thu Jan 16 12:07:33 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0GK7XD21909 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:07:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [192.149.252.33]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0GK7Wb21231; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:07:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from ops.arin.net (ops.arin.net [192.149.252.141]) by smtp1.arin.net (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id h0GK7RYm090810; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:07:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from [204.152.189.28] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ops.arin.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id PAA25609; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:07:26 -0500 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: edlewis@127.0.0.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200301161623.h0GGNds16887@boreas.isi.edu> References: <200301161623.h0GGNds16887@boreas.isi.edu> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:07:30 -0800 To: Bill Manning From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [vet-DS] workshops Cc: brunner@nic-naa.net (Eric Brunner-Williams in Portland Maine), bmanning@ISI.EDU, olaf@ripe.net, mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca, dnssec@ISI.EDU, hugh@freeswan.org, disi@ripe.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: Be forewarned - never, never, never rely on the(se=9.3) snapshots for anything other than testing...no excuses allowed. At 8:23 -0800 1/16/03, Bill Manning wrote: >% what is the DS snapshot this time? 20021113? > >the most recent I have is: > > bind-9.3.0s20021217.tar.gz > > >--bill >Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and >certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise). -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-703-227-9854 ARIN Research Engineer From mcr@cyphermail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca Thu Jan 16 15:54:17 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0GNsHD17803 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:54:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (cyphermail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca [192.139.46.78]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0GNsGb13841 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:54:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca [192.139.46.20]) by noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0GNs5Q12431 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168 bits) verified OK) for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 18:54:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (marajade [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h0GNs0JP017636 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK) for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 18:54:02 -0500 Received: from marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (mcr@localhost) by marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h0GNs02T017632 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2003 18:54:00 -0500 Message-Id: <200301162354.h0GNs02T017632@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> To: dnssec@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: [vet-DS] workshops In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:33:10 +0100." <20030116103310.3910deeb.olaf@ripe.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 18:53:59 -0500 From: Michael Richardson Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>> "Olaf" == Olaf M Kolkman writes: Olaf> I am willing (actually eager :-) to partake in a workshop. But joining Olaf> a persistent testbeb, with a production domain, under the test-root is Olaf> something that I am hesitant about. The main reason is that I think Olaf> that except for the added security the two namespaces (the one from Olaf> the test and the IANA root) should be exactly identical. I am afraid I agree as well. This is why it is useful to start with .arpa, with ARIN and RIPE's cooperation. How big are these zones? ] ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine. | firewalls [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON |net architect[ ] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[ ] panic("Just another Debian GNU/Linux using, kernel hacking, security guy"); [ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Finger me for keys iQCVAwUBPidGFIqHRg3pndX9AQEOvwQAsHOeRo31+r2hJzSlneokCkJzwRvML9qh GygbCitVmXb6Q8HWvSTpiDNup1ROENMw1oHnSpzld0+njeKdbYAn31BsB1tOilcw 3FRCvmgQhYQTEAkB2eofhpMhfMt6SHrwIqtCVS/lH+gikStQFqW6+0f+ZJsSmiXE U4fnaFfny2E= =AweW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mcr@cyphermail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca Fri Jan 17 06:16:49 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0HEGnD23068 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 06:16:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (cyphermail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca [192.139.46.78]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0HEGmb20715 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 06:16:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca [192.139.46.20]) by noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0HEGcQ15756 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168 bits) verified OK); Fri, 17 Jan 2003 09:16:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (marajade [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h0HEGYJP007662 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jan 2003 09:16:35 -0500 Received: from marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (mcr@localhost) by marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h0HEGWhS007658; Fri, 17 Jan 2003 09:16:33 -0500 Message-Id: <200301171416.h0HEGWhS007658@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> To: dnssec@ISI.EDU cc: brunner@nic-naa.net (Eric Brunner-Williams in Portland Maine), olaf@ripe.net, hugh@freeswan.org, disi@ripe.net Subject: Re: [vet-DS] workshops In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:07:30 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 09:16:32 -0500 From: Michael Richardson Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>> "Edward" == Edward Lewis writes: Edward> Be forewarned - never, never, never rely on the(se=9.3) snapshots for Edward> anything other than testing...no excuses allowed. Nice to say. In order to convince me, I need to see a release schedule for bind9. ] ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine. | firewalls [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON |net architect[ ] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[ ] panic("Just another Debian GNU/Linux using, kernel hacking, security guy"); [ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Finger me for keys iQCVAwUBPigQP4qHRg3pndX9AQHB/gQAu/8AWV5xF+yijhKTS3uv4BYiydx1M2tI vlliZBdCc9HFNHhMz/TxOswt4webJEL8mPXlaM7qW27xBC2eNkW3SpCk4VFWpxzm pkyMtuPkfnq8akSkEG3qkAEhpXhjBBrKc9ODJcQvH3iL0bh8TJrhOcdQtuhno7p1 WSZTUNCz0fo= =dH7Q -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From edlewis@arin.net Tue Jan 21 07:05:43 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0LF5hD11314 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 07:05:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [192.149.252.33]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0LF5gb09527 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 07:05:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from ops.arin.net (ops.arin.net [192.149.252.141]) by smtp1.arin.net (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id h0LF5ZYm079463; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:05:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.149.252.226] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ops.arin.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA17518; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:05:30 -0500 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: edlewis@127.0.0.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200301171416.h0HEGWhS007658@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> References: <200301171416.h0HEGWhS007658@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:51:19 -0500 To: Michael Richardson From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [vet-DS] workshops Cc: dnssec@ISI.EDU, brunner@nic-naa.net (Eric Brunner-Williams in Portland Maine), olaf@ripe.net, hugh@freeswan.org, disi@ripe.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: At 9:16 -0500 1/17/03, Michael Richardson wrote: > Nice to say. > In order to convince me, I need to see a release schedule for bind9. I understand, but still, Bind 9.3snaps *are* dangerous to the user. We still need to define the DS RR correctly, it's not just a software development issue. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-703-227-9854 ARIN Research Engineer From bmanning@ISI.EDU Tue Jan 21 07:57:34 2003 Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0LFvYD27514 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 07:57:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by boreas.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) id h0LFvVE02641; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 07:57:31 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Manning Message-Id: <200301211557.h0LFvVE02641@boreas.isi.edu> Subject: Re: [vet-DS] workshops In-Reply-To: <200301162354.h0GNs02T017632@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> from Michael Richardson at "Jan 16, 3 06:53:59 pm" To: mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (Michael Richardson) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 07:57:31 -0800 (PST) Cc: dnssec@ISI.EDU X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: % Olaf> something that I am hesitant about. The main reason is that I think % Olaf> that except for the added security the two namespaces (the one from % Olaf> the test and the IANA root) should be exactly identical. I am afraid % % I agree as well. % This is why it is useful to start with .arpa, with ARIN and RIPE's cooperation. % How big are these zones? we have the arpa zone (very small) and some of the in-addr.arpa zones (with some delay) --bill Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise). From mcr@cyphermail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca Tue Jan 21 09:41:27 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0LHfRD23577 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:41:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (cyphermail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca [192.139.46.78]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0LHfQb13716 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:41:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca [192.139.46.20]) by noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0LHfCQ14570 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168 bits) verified OK) for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 12:41:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (marajade [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h0LHf7lX005522 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK) for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 12:41:09 -0500 Received: from marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (mcr@localhost) by marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h0LHf2eZ005519 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 12:41:07 -0500 Message-Id: <200301211741.h0LHf2eZ005519@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> To: dnssec@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: [vet-DS] workshops In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:51:19 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 12:41:02 -0500 From: Michael Richardson Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- (dropping CC's because I'm pretty sure all are on the dnssec list) >>>>> "Edward" == Edward Lewis writes: Edward> At 9:16 -0500 1/17/03, Michael Richardson wrote: >> Nice to say. >> In order to convince me, I need to see a release schedule for bind9. Edward> I understand, but still, Bind 9.3snaps *are* dangerous to the user. Edward> We still need to define the DS RR correctly, it's not just a software Edward> development issue. well, there is a proposal for how to fix DS RR on the table. I'm not entirely convinced, because it seems so simple, so I want to see it work. No progress will be made until the software development problem is straightened out. I'll write code if I have to, but getting it accepted is hard. We were supposed to finish this work already. ] ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine. | firewalls [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON |net architect[ ] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[ ] panic("Just another Debian GNU/Linux using, kernel hacking, security guy"); [ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Finger me for keys iQCVAwUBPi2GLIqHRg3pndX9AQHHxQP/YRx7deQkAJ91m/coEb9PtIgR8u+va+O5 JOr1L+lfTMuHDBGR+QbYkwNFUfvdyE1wAuUGDnsYWa+29NZuUStzB9hhkLUzZoUP sow4I5mjurXs0aOQagbViBRshwDMSYyA8bIxI1apo9uvkQuwJtzYm8F2jFrLcRRM WS0cNvfKn8s= =v0Ks -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From edlewis@arin.net Tue Jan 21 10:04:15 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0LI4ED09358 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:04:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [192.149.252.33]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0LI4Bb01224 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:04:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from ops.arin.net (ops.arin.net [192.149.252.141]) by smtp1.arin.net (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id h0LI4AYm084885; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:04:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.149.252.226] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ops.arin.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA13929; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:04:10 -0500 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: edlewis@127.0.0.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200301211741.h0LHf2eZ005519@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> References: <200301211741.h0LHf2eZ005519@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:04:28 -0500 To: Michael Richardson From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [vet-DS] workshops Cc: dnssec@ISI.EDU Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: At 12:41 -0500 1/21/03, Michael Richardson wrote: > well, there is a proposal for how to fix DS RR on the table. I'm not >entirely convinced, because it seems so simple, so I want to see it work. There's also this problem that is not addressed in -12: How do you deny the existence of a DS RR set in a referral in such a manner that does not confuse pre-DS RR yet DNSSEC aware resolvers into believing that such a situation is not a denial of existence data (via no referral)? A collection of us have seen this happen - when you sign (say) the root with DS semantics and use an older resolver. The resolver will first observe the NXT record before looking for the NS record. This is not a software glitch, the older resolver complies with the older specification (2535++) which never considered the case of having an NXT and NS in a noerror/noanswer message. Ergo - we need to fix the DS "era" DNSSEC to handle this. "We" have an idea how to do this, but not baked enough to expose to wider group just yet. That, and it's encouraging if others might have independent ideas that might shed light on other approaches. > No progress will be made until the software development problem is >straightened out. I'll write code if I have to, but getting it accepted is >hard. Yeah. The problem I am concerned about is the eternal supply of corner cases. I've branched off the mainline and am trying to write an analysis of DNS to be used as a checklist against new proposals to stem corner cases quicker. I have a version of it, but it failed to catch the corner case above. When I get a chance to edit again, I know what to include. I should probably do an example checklist of the DS versus it to demonstrate. > We were supposed to finish this work already. It's impossible to reliably schedule any engineering effort that is not following a cookie cutter design. It's also impossible to forecast the resources available to achieve a goal when every thing is donated/volunteered. No one is holding up progress intentionally, nor is anyone derailing progress. I've mentioned this to a few folks - we are messing with the most important part of the most critical element of the Internet. The loose coupling at delegation points is the most important part of DNS - with out this it would not have scaled to where we are. To acheive scaleable security we are paying the price of tightening the coupling. Not to mention that we are doing this on the name service. Kind of like triple bypass open heart surgery. Performed by volunteers. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-703-227-9854 ARIN Research Engineer From miekg@atoom.net Tue Jan 21 11:00:37 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0LJ0bD14429 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:00:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from elektron.atoom.net (vhe-530008.sshn.net [195.169.222.38]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0LJ0Zb11353 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:00:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from elektron.atoom.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by elektron.atoom.net (8.12.6/8.12.6/Debian-7) with ESMTP id h0LJ0UJt023584; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 20:00:30 +0100 Received: (from miekg@localhost) by elektron.atoom.net (8.12.6/8.12.6/Debian-7) id h0LJ0UC5023583; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 20:00:30 +0100 Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 20:00:30 +0100 From: Miek Gieben To: Edward Lewis Cc: Michael Richardson , dnssec@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: [vet-DS] workshops Message-ID: <20030121190030.GB23368@atoom.net> References: <200301211741.h0LHf2eZ005519@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Vim/Mutt/Linux X-Home: www.miek.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.8 required=6.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT version=2.43 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: [On 21 Jan, @19:04, Edward wrote in "Re: [vet-DS] workshops ..."] > At 12:41 -0500 1/21/03, Michael Richardson wrote: > > well, there is a proposal for how to fix DS RR on the table. I'm not > >entirely convinced, because it seems so simple, so I want to see it work. > > There's also this problem that is not addressed in -12: > > How do you deny the existence of a DS RR set in a referral in such > a manner that does not confuse pre-DS RR yet DNSSEC aware resolvers ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ why are we making that a problem? Officially there has been no DNSSEC deployment until now. It seems weird to me to be backwards compatible with stuff that never should be used for DNSSEC. On the other hand... a lot of people have bind9.2.x and don't do DNSSEC (until we deploy it). grtz Miek From mcr@cyphermail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca Tue Jan 21 11:03:41 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0LJ3eD15556 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:03:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (cyphermail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca [192.139.46.78]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0LJ3cb14364 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:03:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca [192.139.46.20]) by noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0LJ3TQ14899 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168 bits) verified OK) for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:03:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (marajade [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h0LJ3NlX012209 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK) for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:03:26 -0500 Received: from marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (mcr@localhost) by marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h0LJ3Nuo012206 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:03:23 -0500 Message-Id: <200301211903.h0LJ3Nuo012206@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> To: dnssec@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: [vet-DS] workshops In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:04:28 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:03:22 -0500 From: Michael Richardson Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>> "Edward" == Edward Lewis writes: Edward> At 12:41 -0500 1/21/03, Michael Richardson wrote: >> well, there is a proposal for how to fix DS RR on the table. I'm not >> entirely convinced, because it seems so simple, so I want to see it work. Edward> There's also this problem that is not addressed in -12: Edward> How do you deny the existence of a DS RR set in a referral in such Edward> a manner that does not confuse pre-DS RR yet DNSSEC aware resolvers Edward> into believing that such a situation is not a denial of existence data Edward> (via no referral)? Okay, you postulate: 1) DNSSEC aware 2) non-DS aware 3) they have a configured trusted key that would cause them to even be able to confirm this situation. While there are many recursive resolvers that are #1/#2, the longer we defer this issue, the less likely there are any of #3. The only trusted keys that I have configured into production DNS servers are my own. As such, I do not need either parent KEY, or DS record, so it doesn't matter. The only people who have configured me as a trusted key are my business partners, and I can update them bilaterally. So, is this really an issue that we have to resolve? Yes, it causes a theorectical flag day. In practice, I do not think so. Edward> A collection of us have seen this happen - when you sign (say) the Edward> root with DS semantics and use an older resolver. The resolver will Edward> first observe the NXT record before looking for the NS record. This Edward> is not a software glitch, the older resolver complies with the older Edward> specification (2535++) which never considered the case of having an Edward> NXT and NS in a noerror/noanswer message. Ergo - we need to fix the Edward> DS "era" DNSSEC to handle this. Edward> "We" have an idea how to do this, but not baked enough to expose to Edward> wider group just yet. That, and it's encouraging if others might Edward> have independent ideas that might shed light on other approaches. Great. Let me say that I'm profoundly annoyed by any concern here about 2535. If "we" care so much about 2535 era DNSSEC customers, WHY DID "we" SCREW UP THE KEY RECORD FOR EXISTING USERS without a replacement already implemented? 2535 is already obsolete, as the IESG already published restrict-key. They showed no concern for any people out there using it, why should you? Honestly, I think I've been running more secure, production zones longer than many. We will not find all the corner cases by thought alone. I *experience* aol.com and others who think that tcp port 53 is evil EVERY DAY. Not all of my secondaries are running bind9 with EDNS0 support. *I* tell you, that this corner case is not real. We won't find the others by thought alone. We will find them by putting things into production. That means that we get software that isn't marked "snapshot", and documents that are marked "draft standard". Nobody said to put this on f.root-servers.net today. ] ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine. | firewalls [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON |net architect[ ] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[ ] panic("Just another Debian GNU/Linux using, kernel hacking, security guy"); [ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Finger me for keys iQCVAwUBPi2Zb4qHRg3pndX9AQGtdQQA1QCKrkxcNkCez5EspRAiJT1rPo/GG+x5 8nQL/SO8W7HO3FsPEDA/NdwqGUrt7l5xktt0Oi556X6OfvlMowkA/sHOHjo/x7r3 6Bz6usgMLjr4/Auw/6yVWBt11HiQWte0OVDdj6sQJHKYmXnblcVtwUDOfFaNh+0L 2IQeM5Zf+to= =vMnO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From wgriffin@jtan.com Tue Jan 21 11:21:19 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0LJLJD24669 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:21:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from ganymede.jtan.com (ganymede.jtan.com [207.106.84.133]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0LJLIb25055 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:21:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from jtan.com (callisto.jtan.com [207.106.84.134]) by ganymede.jtan.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id h0LJLF902698 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:21:15 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:21:06 -0500 Subject: Re: [vet-DS] workshops Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) From: wes To: dnssec@ISI.EDU Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20030121190030.GB23368@atoom.net> Message-Id: <7D125B44-2D75-11D7-A21E-0003938125CC@jtan.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.551) Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: I very much agree with Miek on this, worrying about 2535 resolvers is not worthwhile. We've been saying there will be a flag-day for DS and as such we should not worry about 2535 code. On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, at 02:00 PM, Miek Gieben wrote: > [On 21 Jan, @19:04, Edward wrote in "Re: [vet-DS] workshops ..."] >> >> How do you deny the existence of a DS RR set in a referral in such >> a manner that does not confuse pre-DS RR yet DNSSEC aware resolvers > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > why are we making that a problem? Officially there has been no DNSSEC > deployment until now. > It seems weird to me to be backwards compatible with stuff that never > should be > used for DNSSEC. > > On the other hand... a lot of people have bind9.2.x and don't do > DNSSEC (until > we deploy it). > > grtz Miek -- wes / wgriffin@jtan.com / 000f1a2f From bmanning@ISI.EDU Tue Jan 21 11:25:01 2003 Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0LJP1D26275 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:25:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by boreas.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) id h0LJOpI24171; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:24:51 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Manning Message-Id: <200301211924.h0LJOpI24171@boreas.isi.edu> Subject: Re: [vet-DS] workshops In-Reply-To: from Edward Lewis at "Jan 21, 3 01:04:28 pm" To: edlewis@arin.net (Edward Lewis) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:24:51 -0800 (PST) Cc: mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca, dnssec@ISI.EDU X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: % I've mentioned this to a few folks - we are messing with the most % important part of the most critical element of the Internet. "There are no urgent DNS problems." - Hotz % Edward Lewis +1-703-227-9854 % ARIN Research Engineer --bill Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise). From edlewis@arin.net Tue Jan 21 11:51:46 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0LJpkD10416 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:51:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [192.149.252.33]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0LJpjb15777 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:51:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from ops.arin.net (ops.arin.net [192.149.252.141]) by smtp1.arin.net (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id h0LJpZYm088944; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:51:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.149.252.226] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ops.arin.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA00598; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:51:34 -0500 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: edlewis@127.0.0.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20030121190030.GB23368@atoom.net> References: <200301211741.h0LHf2eZ005519@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> <20030121190030.GB23368@atoom.net> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:40:27 -0500 To: Miek Gieben From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [vet-DS] workshops Cc: Edward Lewis , Michael Richardson , dnssec@ISI.EDU Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: At 20:00 +0100 1/21/03, Miek Gieben wrote: >why are we making that a problem? Officially there has been no >DNSSEC deployment until now. >It seems weird to me to be backwards compatible with stuff that >never should be >used for DNSSEC. The problem is that if, say, www.ripe.net is from a DS-aware zone, and I'm running a BIND 9.2. cache without DNSSEC, my server might mark ripe.net as a lame zone because of the DS record if the answers arrive as are defined in 9.3 snapshots. Then there is also the problem that if www.arin.net is from an unsigned arin.net with a signed net, then my cache will be confused by the NXT in the referral. So, even though my 9.2. is not explicitly running DNSSEC, the DS record changes so far will confuse it. By explicit: no configured keys, no authoritative signed zones. > >On the other hand... a lot of people have bind9.2.x and don't do DNSSEC (until >we deploy it). And that's the problem...;) -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-703-227-9854 ARIN Research Engineer From olaf@ripe.net Tue Jan 21 22:43:25 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0M6hOD28112 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:43:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from birch.ripe.net (birch.ripe.net [193.0.1.96]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0M6hNb15205 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:43:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from ripe.net (cow.ripe.net [193.0.1.239]) by birch.ripe.net (8.12.5/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0M6h8Aq028570; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:43:08 +0100 Message-Id: <200301220643.h0M6h8Aq028570@birch.ripe.net> To: Miek Gieben cc: Edward Lewis , Michael Richardson , dnssec@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: [vet-DS] workshops In-Reply-To: Message from Miek Gieben of "Tue, 21 Jan 2003 20:00:30 +0100." <20030121190030.GB23368@atoom.net> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:43:08 +0100 From: Olaf Kolkman Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: * * why are we making that a problem? Officially there has been no DNSSEC deplo * yment until now. * It seems weird to me to be backwards compatible with stuff that never should * be * used for DNSSEC. But the problem is that deploying DNSSEC with DS gives problems with a set of resolvers that do not have DNSSEC turned on. They just get confused about a NXT RR being returned. --Olaf From mcr@cyphermail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca Wed Jan 22 12:09:00 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0MK8xD26594 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 12:08:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (cyphermail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca [192.139.46.78]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0MK8wb25239 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 12:08:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca [192.139.46.20]) by noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0MK8nQ20502 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168 bits) verified OK) for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 15:08:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (marajade [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h0MK8elX004430 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 15:08:43 -0500 Received: from marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (mcr@localhost) by marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h0MK8eGa004427 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2003 15:08:40 -0500 Message-Id: <200301222008.h0MK8eGa004427@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> To: dnssec@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: [vet-DS] workshops In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:43:08 +0100." <200301220643.h0M6h8Aq028570@birch.ripe.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 15:08:39 -0500 From: Michael Richardson Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>> "Olaf" == Olaf Kolkman writes: Olaf> * Olaf> * why are we making that a problem? Officially there has been no DNSSEC deplo Olaf> * yment until now. Olaf> * It seems weird to me to be backwards compatible with stuff that never should Olaf> * be Olaf> * used for DNSSEC. Olaf> But the problem is that deploying DNSSEC with DS gives problems with a Olaf> set of resolvers that do not have DNSSEC turned on. They just get Olaf> confused about a NXT RR being returned. I didn't get this until Ed Lewis, painfully, explained this to me on the phone yesterday. Our scenario, I ask a.root-servers.net, about www.mycompany.no. Right now, I get: marajade-[~] mcr 1077 %dig @a.root-servers.net. www.mycompany.no. a ; <<>> DiG 9.3.0s20021115 <<>> @a.root-servers.net. www.mycompany.no. a ;; global options: printcmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 60207 ;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 6, ADDITIONAL: 6 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;www.mycompany.no. IN A ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: no. 172800 IN NS IFI.UIO.no. no. 172800 IN NS NAC.no. no. 172800 IN NS NN.UNINETT.no. no. 172800 IN NS SLAVE1.STH.NETNOD.SE. no. 172800 IN NS NJET.NORID.no. no. 172800 IN NS NOT.NORID.no. ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION: IFI.UIO.no. 172800 IN A 129.240.64.2 NAC.no. 172800 IN A 129.240.2.40 NN.UNINETT.no. 172800 IN A 158.38.0.181 SLAVE1.STH.NETNOD.SE. 172800 IN A 192.36.144.116 NJET.NORID.no. 172800 IN A 198.133.199.105 NOT.NORID.no. 172800 IN A 198.133.199.104 I.e. a referall to the .no root servers. Assume that .no is not secure yet. If we make a.root-servers.net DS aware, then, as part of the referral, it has to tell is that there are no DS records for no: no. 172800 IN NXT np. SIG NXT no. 172800 IN SIG blah. (np comes after no alphabetically. No clue if np. exists) The problem turns out to be that bind9 with (Ed assures me) some support from RFC2536, sees the NXT (does not examine it in detail), assumes that this *proof* that no. does not exist, and then determines that no. does not exist. bind9 does this even though it has no key that it could use to verify the SIG. The fact that it is DNSSEC capable is what screws things up. (This really feels like a bug in bind9, but I'm told it isn't really, and in any case, it is widely enough deployed that we probably have to work around it) In fact, the NXT is simply attesting to the fact that the DS does not exist. ] ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine. | firewalls [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON |net architect[ ] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[ ] panic("Just another Debian GNU/Linux using, kernel hacking, security guy"); [ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Finger me for keys iQCVAwUBPi76RIqHRg3pndX9AQGScgQA8Dq9rTN2UqE6iHt/KlkHRnaePUpU2e7B vPGxCBIAd+PoUVS+lb4Te7eVCcLKm3ZcK6GOMgINkff/lcDQh5dT6+eMEpffX6EV 4gfSC5ajqQ7g/7oFRXJy6zuiJ8dYkvMH0/Yibqjg3RNCekNI75hcjX0lrUFZr7qY vbcv7kmN80M= =fkLS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From gnu@toad.com Thu Jan 23 03:35:45 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0NBZjD07258 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 03:35:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from new.toad.com (new.toad.com [209.237.225.253]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0NBZfb25376 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 03:35:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from toad.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by new.toad.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h0NBYvC24150; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 03:34:57 -0800 Message-Id: <200301231134.h0NBYvC24150@new.toad.com> To: Michael Richardson Cc: hugh@toad.com, dnssec@ISI.EDU, gnu@toad.com Subject: Re: [vet-DS] DNSSEC problem In-Reply-To: Message from Michael Richardson of "Wed, 22 Jan 2003 15:08:39 EST." <200301222008.h0MK8eGc004427@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> References: <200301222008.h0MK8eGc004427@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 03:34:57 -0800 From: John Gilmore Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: [Anti-spam crap will probably bounce this message from dnssec@isi.edu, so MCR, if you don't see it appear there, please forward the msg.] > If we make a.root-servers.net DS aware, then, as part of the referral, it > has to tell is that there are no DS records for no: > > no. 172800 IN NXT np. SIG NXT > no. 172800 IN SIG blah. > > (np comes after no alphabetically. No clue if np. exists) > > The problem turns out to be that bind9 with (Ed assures me) some support > from RFC2536, sees the NXT (does not examine it in detail), assumes that this > *proof* that no. does not exist, and then determines that no. does not exist. > bind9 does this even though it has no key that it could use to verify the > SIG. The fact that it is DNSSEC capable is what screws things up. > (This really feels like a bug in bind9, but I'm told it isn't really, and > in any case, it is widely enough deployed that we probably have to work > around it) The problem-behind-the-problem is that the original DNSSEC violated in small ways one of the basic design constraints of the DNS -- that there's a single authoritative source for a given set of RRs. The NXT record violated that constraint, in a small way, which lead to misunderstandings and outright bugs. The people who misdesigned "DS" didn't even *understand* this basic design constraint, so they started tossing RRsets for the same name (e.g. ".no") into all sorts of different zones (both the root zone and the ".no" zone). This REALLY doesn't work. The original 1970s DNS (pre DNSSEC) made the child zone the authoritative source for ALL of the RRsets. For a domain name of "X.Y.Z", the authoritative zone file for all RRsets with domain names that end in "X.Y.Z" is the one that begins with the "X.Y.Z SOA" record. No exceptions. In other words, the root zone consists of almost nothing authoritative. It contains a ". SOA" record, which it is authoritative for. But the NS records in it for its subdomains are just "hints" about the real NS records. Any "A" records in the root zone are also just "hints" about the real A records for those names. To get the real answers, you have to go to tha authoritative sources (the subdomains). The COM domain is similar -- it contains almost nothing that it is authoritative for. The 'hint' records at the parent domain permit a resolver to bootstrap. These hints are not authoritative. Any trace of them is replaced in the resolver's cache as soon as the real authoritative records arrive. (The security model of the 1970s DNS was that a single "believe-me-I'm-authoritative" bit defined which records were secure and which were not. This is still the operative model, *because* we have been gridlocking for years on DNSSEC.) The NS-record hints let the parent zone point a resolver toward the name servers that are authoritative (contain the SOA) for the child zone. But an NS isn't all you need. The A-record hints untangle the nasty problem of referring someone looking for "toad.com" to the name servers at "ns1.toad.com" or "ns2.toad.com". To send a query to "ns1.toad.com" you need its IP address, which you would normally get from the name server for toad.com. But that is who you were looking for in the first place! Using the hint sent by a parent zone, a resolver will send a packet to the purported IP address of purported name server ns1.toad.com, and (with luck) get back an authoritative answer that gives the full set of toad.com's NS records, and also the A records for the names in those NS records (ns1.toad.com and ns2.toad.com). These will come from "the horse's mouth" and have the right TTLs, for example. The resolver will throw away the hint records. It will now authoritatively know how to route queries for any other records it needs from the toad.com zone. OK, so that was the original DNS. Now let's see how DNSSEC changed it. The original DNSSEC (discounting NXT records), made the child zone the authoritative source for ALL of the RRsets. This was the correct decision, in line with basic design philosophy. The original DNSSEC signature model is that the child zone (e.g. toad.com) would somehow pass its KEY records up to the parent zone (e.g. who I bought my domain from). The parent would return a SIG record that signs those KEY records with the parent's zone key. The ***CHILD*** would then publish these SIG records along with the KEY records (and any other SIG records of its own that it wished to publish). The child would be the authoritative source for all of these records. This design works, but requires out-of-band communication with your parent domain, so they can sign your KEY records. (Of course, registering a domain at all, updating your NS records or your contact info, paying for it, etc, all require out-of-band communication with your parent domain. By out-of-band I mean "not using a defined DNS protocol".) The NXT record messed up the basic design decision about who's authoritative for a given RRset. The problem is that a "no." NXT record must exist in the parent zone (root), saying what the next alphabetical record is in the parent. A "no. NXT" must also exist in the child, saying what alphabetical record is next in the child (it's probably a subdomain like "say.no", while in the parent it's another TLD like ".oz"). This caused lots of hair in BIND 9, some of which we are probably still debugging. My strong suggestion is to move forward with: * The original design of DNSSEC (no DS records, just KEY and SIG) * DO NOT DEPLOY the problematic NXT records. 99% of what we care about is to secure the REAL EXISTING DNS records. Not to securely say that NONEXISTENT records really, securely, DON'T EXIST. * DO NOT DEPLOY the problematic DS records. Let's solve the part of the problem that we can easily solve and deploy -- and get it deployed and protecting us. And leave the stuff that's still "research" for later design and deployment. Let's NOT hold security for real records hostage to the decoy goal of securing the unreality of nonexistent records. John Gilmore From miekg@atoom.net Thu Jan 23 06:13:35 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0NEDYD18198 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 06:13:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from elektron.atoom.net (vhe-530008.sshn.net [195.169.222.38]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0NEDXb21781 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 06:13:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from elektron.atoom.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by elektron.atoom.net (8.12.6/8.12.6/Debian-7) with ESMTP id h0NEDSr3001044; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 15:13:29 +0100 Received: (from miekg@localhost) by elektron.atoom.net (8.12.6/8.12.6/Debian-7) id h0NEDSWi001043; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 15:13:28 +0100 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 15:13:28 +0100 From: Miek Gieben To: John Gilmore Cc: Michael Richardson , hugh@toad.com, dnssec@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: [vet-DS] DNSSEC problem Message-ID: <20030123141328.GF31857@atoom.net> References: <200301222008.h0MK8eGc004427@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> <200301231134.h0NBYvC24150@new.toad.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200301231134.h0NBYvC24150@new.toad.com> User-Agent: Vim/Mutt/Linux X-Home: www.miek.nl X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.8 required=6.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_02_03, USER_AGENT version=2.43 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: [On 23 Jan, @12:34, John wrote in "Re: [vet-DS] DNSSEC problem ..."] > SIG record that signs those KEY records with the parent's zone key. > The ***CHILD*** would then publish these SIG records along with the > KEY records (and any other SIG records of its own that it wished to > publish). The child would be the authoritative source for all of > these records. > > This design works, but requires out-of-band communication with your > parent domain, so they can sign your KEY records. (Of course, > registering a domain at all, updating your NS records or your contact > info, paying for it, etc, all require out-of-band communication with > your parent domain. By out-of-band I mean "not using a defined DNS > protocol".) but this does not scale at the TLDs. You register a domain once, you update your nameserver records not very frequent. But with DNSSEC you will have to resign your (child) zone monthly or even more often and you will have to rollover your zone key twice a year. This scaling problem prompted us (NLnetLabs) to develop a solution to reduce the parent/child communication. This was the sig@parent draft (www.nlnetlabs.nl/dnssec/dnssec-parent-sig-01.txt). Olufar came up with a more general solution which resulted in the DS draft. grtz Miek NLnetLabs From edlewis@arin.net Thu Jan 23 06:52:10 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0NEqAD29840 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 06:52:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [192.149.252.33]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h0NEq9b03493 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 06:52:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from ops.arin.net (ops.arin.net [192.149.252.141]) by smtp1.arin.net (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id h0NEq6Ym036830; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:52:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.149.252.226] ([192.149.252.226]) by ops.arin.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA18443; Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:52:06 -0500 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: edlewis@ops Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200301231134.h0NBYvC24150@new.toad.com> References: <200301222008.h0MK8eGc004427@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> <200301231134.h0NBYvC24150@new.toad.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:51:29 -0500 To: John Gilmore From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [vet-DS] DNSSEC problem Cc: Michael Richardson , hugh@toad.com, dnssec@ISI.EDU, gnu@toad.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: At 3:34 -0800 1/23/03, John Gilmore wrote: >OK, so that was the original DNS. Now let's see how DNSSEC changed it. You are so very right in your analysis of old DNS and what makes it strong. I disagree with: >The people who misdesigned "DS" didn't even *understand* this basic design >constraint, so they started tossing RRsets for the same name (e.g. ".no") into >all sorts of different zones (both the root zone and the ".no" zone). This >REALLY doesn't work. I will not counter you on your assessment of 'the people who misdesigned "DS"' - it is hard to argue what was in a person's mind when they made a decision - but I have become convinced that the damage done by the DS record is the least impact on the system while adding the desired security services promised by DNSSEC. The deal is that DNS zones are loosely coupled, and this I believe is the biggest asset of the DNS design. Now we want to add security. There are two paths here. One is that each autonomous, loosely coupled zone establish security associations with each resolver pulling its information (or chaining trust through a series of concatenated hop-to-hop associations). This sounds much like IPsec, and why this hasn't been pursued has been discussed over the years, i.e., it doesn't scale well. The option we have chosen to pursue is to use the domain tree as a lever to scale security. We have postulated all along that we now need the parent to make a statement about the child's state (all the while genuflecting to the desire to have a non-tree path to validation and verification). By this very fact we are tightening the coupling between parent and child, so there will be a price to pay. >My strong suggestion is to move forward with: > > * The original design of DNSSEC (no DS records, just KEY and SIG) > * DO NOT DEPLOY the problematic NXT records. 99% of what we care about is > to secure the REAL EXISTING DNS records. Not to securely say > that NONEXISTENT records really, securely, DON'T EXIST. > * DO NOT DEPLOY the problematic DS records. > In tightening the loose coupling we will need to pay a price. Like a physics problem, to raise a mass against a gravitational force, energy is going to be expended. No matter whether we use a lever, a screw, a system of pulleys, etc., the same amount of energy is going to be needed to move the mass. The two variables are the amount of energy that will be wasted (friction) and the amount of power needed to accomplish the task in a given period of time. So, DS or SIG @ child, both require work (energy). One question is which will incur the least amount of friction. (We can't control power - we are all in volunteer mode here.) You have added another twist - dropping denial of existence altogether, which amounts to moving less mass, hence should require less energy. I liked the SIG @ child model, it certainly was a clean design. It adhered to the principles of loose coupling in that it was easy on the name server that served the parent and child. But recall that the price was the .PARENT file because name servers of that vintage laid one zone over the other at the cut point. SIG @ child also exhibits a nasty side effect that hinders growing systems - the need for a feedback loop. The child sends to the parent, the parent returns. In the small we have seen the failure of this feedback loop, in particular at a workshop in Uppsala Vasby in September 2000. This experience led to the search for an alternative that has wound up in DS. There was also an experience with the CAIRN test bed sometime in 2001 that showed the congestive collapse of the model. That experience has not been documented. (And I am not in position to document it.) SIG @ child is an approach to tightening the coupling that is rather attractive from a protocol design point of view. But it has proven to be an operational nightmare. Standing on it's own, I believe it is dead. Yes, the DS approach is unattractive in its impact on the protocol. I am already convinced that there will be no perfect approach to adding DNSSEC services, I am resigned to there being some element of unattractiveness. So, forgiving that the DS is introducing some ugliness into DNS, is it better or worse than SIG @ child? I think it is proving to be so. DS is much easier to manage from an administration perspective, which is important for the continued scale of DNS. DS has to address many issues overlooked to date, that is very true. I've been working on a document that analyzes the architecture of DNS in the hopes of stamping out the "corner case" crisis plaguing DS and other modification efforts. Although the document isn't done, I'm becoming convinced that with a bit more work, DS can be hammered into shape. (Why is DS taking so long, why are we only slowly finding 'corner cases?' Not many folks have been funded [or had spare time to contribute] to work on it.) Now, as far as removing secure denial of existence from the table, it seems like you might prefer the opt-in approach, but making it mandatory - that zone cuts are never signed. This won't work for the DS approach, of course, as that approach requires signed data to be at the zone cut. But it would work for the SIG @ child approach. I'm unconvinced that dropping secure denial of existence is necessary (although the NXT violates the zone cut rule, it has not proven to be harmful in any way), but the thought of requiring opt-in like semantics to SIG @ child is interesting. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-703-227-9854 ARIN Research Engineer From bmanning@ISI.EDU Tue Feb 4 05:09:10 2003 Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h14D99D28713 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 05:09:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by boreas.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) id h14D93k19711; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 05:09:03 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Manning Message-Id: <200302041309.h14D93k19711@boreas.isi.edu> Subject: Re: [vet-DS] workshops In-Reply-To: <200301152143.h0FLhqk29676@boreas.isi.edu> from Bill Manning at "Jan 15, 3 01:43:52 pm" To: bmanning@ISI.EDU (Bill Manning) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 05:09:03 -0800 (PST) Cc: mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca, dnssec@ISI.EDU, bmanning@ISI.EDU, hugh@freeswan.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: % 1) I've put in for a room, in venue, for 13-15 march % 2) what... kind of depends on the fate of DS, but I expect % to try and nail down participants that are willing to % do more with the persistant v6 testbed. If so, much % can be done prior to the actual mtg. % 3) before... (I'm expecting to be coming back from Oz on the % 12th) Bad news. The Hyatt has sold out its 56 breakout rooms on the 14th/15th (seems others are willing to pay more :( we can move to another hotel adjacent to the Hyatt or find another venue, or we can cancel this effort. comments/suggestions? --bill Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise). From edlewis@arin.net Tue Feb 4 05:27:01 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h14DR1D04092 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 05:27:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [192.149.252.33]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h14DQxb07719; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 05:26:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from ops.arin.net (ops.arin.net [192.149.252.141]) by smtp1.arin.net (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id h14DQtYm044181; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 08:26:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from [66.44.55.19] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ops.arin.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA11837; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 08:26:50 -0500 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: edlewis@127.0.0.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200302041309.h14D93k19711@boreas.isi.edu> References: <200302041309.h14D93k19711@boreas.isi.edu> Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 08:24:34 -0500 To: Bill Manning From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [vet-DS] workshops Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU (Bill Manning), mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca, dnssec@ISI.EDU, hugh@freeswan.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: What about Redwood City (or some other outlying location reasonably close to SF)? Much, *much*, cheaper all around, and there'll be a raft of folks transferring to the IETF so no one will get lost on the way up there at the end of the event. At 5:09 -0800 2/4/03, Bill Manning wrote: >% 1) I've put in for a room, in venue, for 13-15 march >% 2) what... kind of depends on the fate of DS, but I expect >% to try and nail down participants that are willing to >% do more with the persistant v6 testbed. If so, much >% can be done prior to the actual mtg. >% 3) before... (I'm expecting to be coming back from Oz on the >% 12th) > > Bad news. The Hyatt has sold out its 56 breakout rooms on > the 14th/15th (seems others are willing to pay more :( > > we can move to another hotel adjacent to the Hyatt or > find another venue, or we can cancel this effort. > > comments/suggestions? > > >--bill >Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and >certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise). -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-703-227-9854 ARIN Research Engineer From bmanning@ISI.EDU Tue Feb 4 06:29:25 2003 Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h14ETPD22673 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 06:29:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by boreas.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) id h14ETGY06484; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 06:29:16 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Manning Message-Id: <200302041429.h14ETGY06484@boreas.isi.edu> Subject: Re: [vet-DS] workshops In-Reply-To: from Edward Lewis at "Feb 4, 3 08:24:34 am" To: edlewis@arin.net (Edward Lewis) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 06:29:16 -0800 (PST) Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca, dnssec@ISI.EDU, hugh@freeswan.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: fine by me. any one care to volunteer a venue? % What about Redwood City (or some other outlying location reasonably % close to SF)? Much, *much*, cheaper all around, and there'll be a % raft of folks transferring to the IETF so no one will get lost on the % way up there at the end of the event. % % At 5:09 -0800 2/4/03, Bill Manning wrote: % >% 1) I've put in for a room, in venue, for 13-15 march % >% 2) what... kind of depends on the fate of DS, but I expect % >% to try and nail down participants that are willing to % >% do more with the persistant v6 testbed. If so, much % >% can be done prior to the actual mtg. % >% 3) before... (I'm expecting to be coming back from Oz on the % >% 12th) % > % > Bad news. The Hyatt has sold out its 56 breakout rooms on % > the 14th/15th (seems others are willing to pay more :( % > % > we can move to another hotel adjacent to the Hyatt or % > find another venue, or we can cancel this effort. % > % > comments/suggestions? % > % > % >--bill % >Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and % >certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise). % % -- % -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- % Edward Lewis +1-703-227-9854 % ARIN Research Engineer % -- --bill Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise). From hugh@road.toad.com Tue Feb 4 12:18:57 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h14KItD27585 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 12:18:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from road.toad.com (road.toad.com [216.240.42.209]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h14KInb06582; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 12:18:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from road.toad.com (hugh@localhost) by road.toad.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h14KGEl31373; Tue, 4 Feb 2003 12:16:24 -0800 Message-Id: <200302042016.h14KGEl31373@road.toad.com> To: Bill Manning Subject: Re: [vet-DS] workshops In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 04 Feb 2003 05:09:03 PST." <200302041309.h14D93k19711@boreas.isi.edu> Cc: mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca, dnssec@ISI.EDU Reply-To: hugh@xisp.net Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 12:15:46 -0800 From: Hugh Daniel Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- First off it's the Hiltion as pointed out. I think we can provide IP from the IETF networking, I am still working on that, but if we are not in that venue we loose. How many people are we planning on? How many have expressed interest? ||ugh -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv Comment: For the matching public key, finger the Reply-To: address. iQCVAwUBPkAfWVZpdJR7FBQRAQF16gP/TfPGWd1KDUyeB9tBovm5GnwLgKo3E31k 8bgUJ1Ru98WIWbpf7rYL/Zzi1gb16d03ZpyB91YcXX1VUkNeLX74LJBUY6gMLsar futhcWyz+mRWHsluqqifHdRSelQQcAqaZfP3Coj1QH8zkhNG0zr6k8peUPHcvMOe Hvzx/2xo4M8= =HvoH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From olaf@ripe.net Wed Feb 5 00:23:06 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h158N6D20670 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 00:23:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from birch.ripe.net (birch.ripe.net [193.0.1.96]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h158N4b23795; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 00:23:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from x50.ripe.net (x50.ripe.net [193.0.1.50]) by birch.ripe.net (8.12.5/8.11.6) with SMTP id h158MbAq006131; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:22:37 +0100 Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:22:37 +0100 From: "Olaf M. Kolkman" To: hugh@xisp.net Cc: hugh@road.toad.com, bmanning@ISI.EDU, mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca, dnssec@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: [vet-DS] workshops Message-Id: <20030205092237.44450d72.olaf@ripe.net> In-Reply-To: <200302042016.h14KGEl31373@road.toad.com> References: <200302041309.h14D93k19711@boreas.isi.edu> <200302042016.h14KGEl31373@road.toad.com> Organization: RIPE NCC X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.9 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: > > How many people are we planning on? How many have expressed > interest? > You can count on me... ticket is booked and all.. --Olaf --------------------------------------------| Olaf M. Kolkman | www.ripe.net/disi From repayne@the-paynes.com Wed Feb 5 05:41:30 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h15DfUD03903 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 05:41:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from the-paynes.com (va-leesburg3b-90.stngva.adelphia.net [68.71.234.90]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h15DfTb04479; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 05:41:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from repayne@localhost) by the-paynes.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h15DegD09339; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 08:40:42 -0500 Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 08:40:42 -0500 From: Rob Payne To: "Olaf M. Kolkman" Cc: hugh@xisp.net, hugh@road.toad.com, bmanning@ISI.EDU, mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca, dnssec@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: [vet-DS] workshops Message-ID: <20030205134042.GE13165@osprey.the-paynes.com> References: <200302041309.h14D93k19711@boreas.isi.edu> <200302042016.h14KGEl31373@road.toad.com> <20030205092237.44450d72.olaf@ripe.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="rHXT7wjifYJhd5Y1" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030205092237.44450d72.olaf@ripe.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Use-Encryption: Encrypted email preferred (see www.gnupg.org) X-GnuPG-Keyid: 9B6E7165 X-GnuPG-Fingerprint: D42C ACC0 CA2A B7D5 7A01 A43F 80B5 FBFE 9B6E 7165 Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: --rHXT7wjifYJhd5Y1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 09:22:37AM +0100, Olaf M. Kolkman wrote: Hugh> How many people are we planning on? How many have expressed Hugh> interest? Olaf> You can count on me... ticket is booked and all.. Count me in, and one other person from 'round here. Reservations were made, they can change if venue moves far enough. ;D -rob --rHXT7wjifYJhd5Y1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+QRRaOVBTTvic5hMRAksiAKDkyvac858GSftkWAGo3HRRx9DWrwCgr4xx sa+WRCt5DVX+FllI0bAw9T4= =MkX2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --rHXT7wjifYJhd5Y1-- From bmanning@ISI.EDU Wed Feb 5 10:12:08 2003 Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h15IC8D18656 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:12:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by boreas.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) id h15IC1s26014; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:12:01 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Manning Message-Id: <200302051812.h15IC1s26014@boreas.isi.edu> Subject: Re: [vet-DS] workshops In-Reply-To: <200302042016.h14KGEl31373@road.toad.com> from Hugh Daniel at "Feb 4, 3 12:15:46 pm" To: hugh@xisp.net Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:12:01 -0800 (PST) Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca, dnssec@ISI.EDU X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: % First off it's the Hiltion as pointed out. I think we can provide % IP from the IETF networking, I am still working on that, but if we are % not in that venue we loose. toast. % How many people are we planning on? How many have expressed % interest? no made any public announcement yet. currently looks like ~8-10. --bill Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise). From edlewis@arin.net Wed Feb 5 14:19:58 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h15MJwD12096 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:19:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [192.149.252.33]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h15MJub01835; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:19:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from ops.arin.net (ops.arin.net [192.149.252.141]) by smtp1.arin.net (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id h15MJtYm002111; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:19:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from [198.202.64.89] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ops.arin.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA22855; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:19:54 -0500 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: edlewis@127.0.0.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200302042016.h14KGEl31373@road.toad.com> References: <200302042016.h14KGEl31373@road.toad.com> Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:20:04 -0800 To: hugh@xisp.net From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [vet-DS] workshops Cc: Bill Manning , mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca, dnssec@ISI.EDU Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: At 12:15 -0800 2/4/03, Hugh Daniel wrote: > How many people are we planning on? How many have expressed >interest? I'll be in the SF bay area. I don't have a room in SF until Sunday night of IETF, I have one in RWC before that. I'm not clear on whether the talk is of still trying to get into a downtown facility or one nearer an airport... -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-703-227-9854 ARIN Research Engineer From hugh@road.toad.com Wed Feb 5 18:11:36 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h162BaD28679 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 18:11:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from road.toad.com (road.toad.com [216.240.42.209]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h162BZb29343 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 18:11:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from road.toad.com (hugh@localhost) by road.toad.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h1629SY27507; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 18:09:28 -0800 Message-Id: <200302060209.h1629SY27507@road.toad.com> To: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [vet-DS] workshops In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 05 Feb 2003 14:20:04 PST." Cc: dnssec@ISI.EDU Reply-To: hugh@xisp.net Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 18:09:27 -0800 From: Hugh Daniel Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Ed, the best thing would be for us to be in the Hotel (Hilton) as that is where we should be able to get IP (from the IETF networking comming up a bit early, I am working on that). Next would be some place else in the city or failing that the Bay Area. If the group is small enough I might host it at either my lab (Santa Cruz Mountains) or another house with T1 in San Francisco. Both are small though and realistically can't work for more then maybe 12 or 16 folks, if that. But both will have T1 lines and are fun, but it would be MUCH better to be at the hotel. We are currently looking at getting a Suite room in the hilton, but that is $700 per day and seems to hold only about 10 folks. So it will happen, the question is where. ||ugh -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv Comment: For the matching public key, finger the Reply-To: address. iQCVAwUBPkHD1VZpdJR7FBQRAQEocQQAxO01ZlUL7mvrvbipjUdUWMwpBStvKdYX bBvqRz+8WAnNHBSmRKEcIOhx2I8lVtNoHWdOQ4OTkf1Gg08pwNkxTMmNSzNv5AZC VlB6IbhBQHik2bN8ZWs8Cc4kQNt0VIsKKYch+eQd5CKftBm3W/Gk6dxIlia2ERjw 1Js0m4WOlSo= =ZMso -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mcr@cyphermail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca Wed Feb 5 18:55:47 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h162tlD11775 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 18:55:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (cyphermail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca [192.139.46.78]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h162tkb15023 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 18:55:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from sandelman.ottawa.on.ca ([2002:c08b:2e21:2:204:76ff:fe2d:8c]) by noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h162thL26768 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168 bits) verified OK) for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 21:55:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (marajade [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h162tfr7012819 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 21:55:42 -0500 Received: from marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (mcr@localhost) by marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h162teE2012816 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 2003 21:55:41 -0500 Message-Id: <200302060255.h162teE2012816@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> To: dnssec@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: [vet-DS] workshops In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 05 Feb 2003 14:20:04 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 21:55:40 -0500 From: Michael Richardson Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>> "Edward" == Edward Lewis writes: Edward> At 12:15 -0800 2/4/03, Hugh Daniel wrote: >> How many people are we planning on? How many have expressed interest? Edward> I'll be in the SF bay area. I don't have a room in SF until Edward> Sunday night of IETF, I have one in RWC before that. Edward> I'm not clear on whether the talk is of still trying to get into Edward> a downtown facility or one nearer an airport... -- I called the Hotel as well as Bill. We can get space for 10 people for about $2K. It will either be on the IETF network, or they'll get us IP another way (for a fee). Someone could actually sleep in this suite... Maybe Ed! pro: in the hotel. we can work as late as want. The room is actually a 2pm to noon affair, so if we get it Thur. afternoon and keep it until Sat... con: not cheap. IETF hotel not cheap to stay in. We could go somewhere else. I don't see any advantage of doing "across the street", unless they have good quality IP. So, we might as well go where there is IP. If that is a shinny Cisco building in Milpitas, fine. i.e. whatever. (I spent a 4th of July in the hotel across the street, and watched them put up half of that building one summer...) Hey, let's camp out at isc.org, in front of F. ("All hail the root name servers") ] ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine. | firewalls [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON |net architect[ ] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[ ] panic("Just another Debian GNU/Linux using, kernel hacking, security guy"); [ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Finger me for keys iQCVAwUBPkHOqoqHRg3pndX9AQEJ6QQAod0E9+VOzypvRqL4vCKpET5um78Sxz5H nieHSMKWi3nNNa64m8qlSC7e4PqUypU6k7AXuRYZAG9HeqwIpeCa7mdBSvGh9uIs bJjDst000xI80xjXbHrDcq+yUUSgWgnvUo3qJ44HyPiTHxg+pE0s39SYntdVECzp A6vADO5vCho= =pUUg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From scottr@nist.gov Thu Feb 6 04:36:51 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h16CapD00173 for ; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 04:36:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from postmark.nist.gov (pushme.nist.gov [129.6.16.92]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h16Caob13923 for ; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 04:36:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from barnacle (barnacle.antd.nist.gov [129.6.55.185]) by postmark.nist.gov (8.12.5/8.12.5) with SMTP id h16Cagf1007070 for ; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 07:36:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00ad01c2cddc$68128aa0$b9370681@barnacle> From: "Scott Rose" To: References: <200302060255.h162teE2012816@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> Subject: Re: [vet-DS] workshops Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 07:36:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: Hate to ask this again: but what days are we planning for? The week before or week after IETF? Hopefully NIST will have a %*#$ budget by then, and I can actually travel. Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Richardson" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 9:55 PM Subject: Re: [vet-DS] workshops > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > > >>>>> "Edward" == Edward Lewis writes: > Edward> At 12:15 -0800 2/4/03, Hugh Daniel wrote: > >> How many people are we planning on? How many have expressed interest? > > Edward> I'll be in the SF bay area. I don't have a room in SF until > Edward> Sunday night of IETF, I have one in RWC before that. > > Edward> I'm not clear on whether the talk is of still trying to get into > Edward> a downtown facility or one nearer an airport... -- > > I called the Hotel as well as Bill. > We can get space for 10 people for about $2K. It will either be on the > IETF network, or they'll get us IP another way (for a fee). Someone could > actually sleep in this suite... Maybe Ed! > > pro: in the hotel. we can work as late as want. The room is actually > a 2pm to noon affair, so if we get it Thur. afternoon and keep it > until Sat... > > con: not cheap. IETF hotel not cheap to stay in. > > We could go somewhere else. I don't see any advantage of doing "across the > street", unless they have good quality IP. So, we might as well go where > there is IP. If that is a shinny Cisco building in Milpitas, > fine. i.e. whatever. > (I spent a 4th of July in the hotel across the street, and watched them put > up half of that building one summer...) > > Hey, let's camp out at isc.org, in front of F. > ("All hail the root name servers") > > ] ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine. | firewalls [ > ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON |net architect[ > ] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[ > ] panic("Just another Debian GNU/Linux using, kernel hacking, security guy"); [ > > > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Finger me for keys > > iQCVAwUBPkHOqoqHRg3pndX9AQEJ6QQAod0E9+VOzypvRqL4vCKpET5um78Sxz5H > nieHSMKWi3nNNa64m8qlSC7e4PqUypU6k7AXuRYZAG9HeqwIpeCa7mdBSvGh9uIs > bJjDst000xI80xjXbHrDcq+yUUSgWgnvUo3qJ44HyPiTHxg+pE0s39SYntdVECzp > A6vADO5vCho= > =pUUg > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From bmanning@ISI.EDU Thu Feb 6 10:21:40 2003 Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h16ILeD09691 for ; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:21:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by boreas.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) id h16ILdM27016 for dnssec@isi.edu; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:21:39 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Manning Message-Id: <200302061821.h16ILdM27016@boreas.isi.edu> To: dnssec@ISI.EDU Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:21:39 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [vet-DS] new venue offering? Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: We have been offered space at ISC (950 Charter) if we can work out the agenda and there are no objections. Comments? --bill Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise). From edlewis@arin.net Thu Feb 6 12:03:55 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h16K3tD06604 for ; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:03:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [192.149.252.33]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h16K3rb27494; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:03:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from ops.arin.net (ops.arin.net [192.149.252.141]) by smtp1.arin.net (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id h16K3lYm026858; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 15:03:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from [198.202.64.202] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ops.arin.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id PAA22880; Thu, 6 Feb 2003 15:03:33 -0500 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: edlewis@127.0.0.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200302061821.h16ILdM27016@boreas.isi.edu> References: <200302061821.h16ILdM27016@boreas.isi.edu> Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:03:38 -0800 To: Bill Manning From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [vet-DS] new venue offering? Cc: dnssec@ISI.EDU Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: For those staying in SF, there's CalTrain to Redwood City. Picking up and dropping off folks could be arranged (I'll have a rental car and motel room convenient to do this.) Or if folks are concerned about transferring from a hotel in RWC to SF on the Sunday of IETF, I can arrange to shuttle folks and luggage in the morning before I turn my car in. At 10:21 -0800 2/6/03, Bill Manning wrote: > We have been offered space at ISC (950 Charter) > if we can work out the agenda and there are no > objections. > > Comments? > > >--bill >Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and >certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise). -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-703-227-9854 ARIN Research Engineer From bmanning@ISI.EDU Wed Feb 12 11:54:19 2003 Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h1CJsJD12941 for ; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 11:54:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by boreas.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) id h1CJsIo09287 for dnssec@isi.edu; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 11:54:18 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Manning Message-Id: <200302121954.h1CJsIo09287@boreas.isi.edu> To: dnssec@ISI.EDU Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 11:54:18 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [vet-DS] TRAVEL SUSPENDED Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: Sorry folks, I know this is -VERY- short notice, but it can't be helped. I am in the difficult position of having travel suspended until further notice. That, combined with the difficulty in locking down a venue for the workshop leads me to pass the token for planning/conducting a workshop to others - at least for the nonce. (Hugh, we can still nail down the bits needed to perform SEC tricks during the IETF, I just can't be there. :( --bill Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise). From repayne@the-paynes.com Wed Feb 12 12:39:12 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h1CKdCD06811 for ; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:39:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from the-paynes.com (va-leesburg3b-90.stngva.adelphia.net [68.71.234.90]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h1CKdAb14362; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:39:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from repayne@localhost) by the-paynes.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h1CKd4H08996; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:39:04 -0500 Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:39:04 -0500 From: Rob Payne To: Bill Manning Cc: dnssec@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: [vet-DS] TRAVEL SUSPENDED Message-ID: <20030212203904.GK2242@osprey.the-paynes.com> References: <200302121954.h1CJsIo09287@boreas.isi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="0kRkyLZR5zsR9u2P" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200302121954.h1CJsIo09287@boreas.isi.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Use-Encryption: Encrypted email preferred (see www.gnupg.org) X-GnuPG-Keyid: 9B6E7165 X-GnuPG-Fingerprint: D42C ACC0 CA2A B7D5 7A01 A43F 80B5 FBFE 9B6E 7165 Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: --0kRkyLZR5zsR9u2P Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Feb 12, 2003 at 11:54:18AM -0800, Bill Manning wrote: > Sorry folks, I know this is -VERY- short notice, but it can't be helped. > I am in the difficult position of having travel suspended until further= =20 > notice. Short notice is better than no notice! Thanks for getting us this far, Bill. =20 > That, combined with the difficulty in locking down a venue for the worksh= op > leads me to pass the token for planning/conducting a workshop to others -= at > least for the nonce. The last I heard was that ISC had offered space at 950 Charter, for the workshop. Is that still the case? I am still planning to come, unless we decide soon that it's not going to happen. I am happy to assist with planning, if that is possible from the opposite (wrong?) coast, if this workshop is still viable. How many people are currently planning to be in SF for the workshop? My unofficial count of the people who responded to the list is: Olaf Hugh? MRC Ed Scott R(?) David P. (not on the list, planning on attending from here) Me Is that everyone? Is there anyone from ISC planning on taking part? Are any of the people who are still planning on coming, up for conducting the workshop? Does anyone have agenda suggestions? There were items left over from the workshop goals from Atlanta, but probably not enough to fill this workshop. How about building a reproducible configuration that can be used again at other workshops? -rob, ASOC (Apparently Spontaneous Obsessive Compulsive) --0kRkyLZR5zsR9u2P Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+SrDoOVBTTvic5hMRAkB3AKCZ2olKPejnfKJKFPG5EyWsz2m9uQCgiyy8 D5oadrs4uVzIl3v2Zup9Gkw= =7PWM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --0kRkyLZR5zsR9u2P-- From yasuhiro@jprs.co.jp Wed Feb 12 18:05:24 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h1D25OD00078 for ; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:05:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from sender2.jprs.co.jp (sender2.nic.ad.jp [61.120.151.69]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h1D25Mb05149; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:05:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from alias.jprs.co.jp (alias.jprs.co.jp [192.168.102.41]) by sender2.jprs.co.jp (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h1D27wG23408; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:07:58 +0900 Received: from tr-alias.jprs.co.jp (tr-alias.jprs.co.jp [192.168.102.1]) by alias.jprs.co.jp (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h1D24hK14172; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:04:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from ssh-tunnel (island1.jprs.co.jp [202.11.16.62]) by tr-alias.jprs.co.jp (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.1.0.66-GA) with ESMTP id AEX02113; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:04:42 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:04:40 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20030213.110440.01450883.yasuhiro@jprs.co.jp> To: rnspayne@the-paynes.com Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, dnssec@ISI.EDU, fujiwara@jprs.co.jp, sekiya@sfc.wide.ad.jp Subject: Re: [vet-DS] TRAVEL SUSPENDED From: Yasuhiro Morishita / =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCPzkyPEJZOSgbKEI=?= In-Reply-To: <20030212203904.GK2242@osprey.the-paynes.com> References: <200302121954.h1CJsIo09287@boreas.isi.edu> <20030212203904.GK2242@osprey.the-paynes.com> Organization: Japan Registry Service Co.,Ltd. (JPRS) X-Mailer: Mew version 3.1 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.1 (AOI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: Hello, this is Yasuhiro 'Orange' Morishita @ JPRS (Registry of .JP). > I am happy to assist with planning, if that is possible from the > opposite (wrong?) coast, if this workshop is still viable. How many > people are currently planning to be in SF for the workshop? My > unofficial count of the people who responded to the list is: > > Olaf > Hugh? > MRC > Ed > Scott R(?) > David P. (not on the list, planning on attending from here) > Me > > Is that everyone? Fujiwara-san and I(Y. 'Orange' Morishita) are planning to attend for the workshop. Please add the list. In previous workshop, Sekiya-san @ WIDE Project (sekiya@sfc.wide.ad.jp) participated, it may also participate this time. Regards, -- Yasuhiro 'Orange' Morishita, Research and Development department Japan Registry Service Co.,Ltd. (JPRS) E-Mail: yasuhiro@jprs.co.jp From sanz@denic.de Thu Feb 13 01:29:03 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h1D9T2D19492 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 01:29:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.denic.de (smtp.denic.de [194.246.96.22]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h1D9T1b05331 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 01:29:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from notes.denic.de (denics15.denic.de [194.246.96.18]) by smtp.denic.de with esmtp id 18jFfv-0002DR-00; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:28:59 +0100 Subject: Re: Re: [vet-DS] TRAVEL SUSPENDED To: dnssec@ISI.EDU X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.6a January 17, 2001 Message-ID: From: "Marcos Sanz/Denic" Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:28:13 +0100 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes/Denic(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 13.02.2003 10:28:59 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: On 13.02.2003 03:04 Yasuhiro Morishita / $B?92 wrote: > > > Is that everyone? I am sorry that I can't attend because I am in holidays in March. Pity. Regards, Marcos Sanz From weiler@watson.org Thu Feb 13 09:26:42 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h1DHQeD05636 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:26:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from fledge.watson.org (ak82hjs7hex92j@fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h1DHQcb15134 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:26:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from fledge.watson.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.6/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h1DHQSP3029152; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:26:28 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from weiler@watson.org) Received: from localhost (weiler@localhost) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with SMTP id h1DHQRej029149; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:26:28 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: fledge.watson.org: weiler owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:26:27 -0500 (EST) From: Sam Weiler Reply-To: Sam Weiler To: Rob Payne cc: dnssec@ISI.EDU, mundy@tislabs.com Subject: Re: [vet-DS] TRAVEL SUSPENDED In-Reply-To: <20030212203904.GK2242@osprey.the-paynes.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Rob Payne wrote: > Is that everyone? Is there anyone from ISC planning on taking part? I plan to attend, and I think Wes Griffin will, too. > Are any of the people who are still planning on coming, up for > conducting the workshop? I'd be happy to volunteer. -- Sam From scottr@nist.gov Fri Feb 14 08:10:03 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h1EGA3D29937 for ; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 08:10:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from postmark.nist.gov (pushme.nist.gov [129.6.16.92]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h1EGA2b17695 for ; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 08:10:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from barnacle (barnacle.antd.nist.gov [129.6.55.185]) by postmark.nist.gov (8.12.5/8.12.5) with SMTP id h1EG9if1001299 for ; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:09:44 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003101c2d443$7dae0890$b9370681@barnacle> From: "Scott Rose" To: References: Subject: Re: Re: [vet-DS] TRAVEL SUSPENDED Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:09:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: I don't think I will be able to attend either. Travel budget restrictions and whatnot. I will attend IETF, but the workshop will be a no-go for me. Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marcos Sanz/Denic" To: Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 4:28 AM Subject: Re: Re: [vet-DS] TRAVEL SUSPENDED > On 13.02.2003 03:04 Yasuhiro Morishita / $B?92 wrote: > > > > > Is that everyone? > > I am sorry that I can't attend because I am in holidays in March. > Pity. > > Regards, > Marcos Sanz > From edlewis@arin.net Fri Feb 14 08:58:44 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h1EGwiD20376 for ; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 08:58:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [192.149.252.33]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h1EGwhb14859; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 08:58:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from ops.arin.net (ops.arin.net [192.149.252.141]) by smtp1.arin.net (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id h1EGwfqn016949; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:58:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.149.252.108] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ops.arin.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA20006; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:58:41 -0500 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: edlewis@127.0.0.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20030212203904.GK2242@osprey.the-paynes.com> References: <200302121954.h1CJsIo09287@boreas.isi.edu> <20030212203904.GK2242@osprey.the-paynes.com> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:58:37 -0500 To: Rob Payne From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [vet-DS] TRAVEL SUSPENDED Cc: Bill Manning , dnssec@ISI.EDU Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: I have heard that the event will be at the ISC building. If no one from ISC is participating, we'll congregate in the parking lot and leech wireless from them. (;)). Note that I've only heard that this news, Paul/Suzanne/et.al. might overrule. I hope that we'll have a good 'nuff testable code base by then, with whatever changes are suggested to make DS not be a problem. That'll dictate the agenda. As far as a set up plan, I think that will be easy to set up. I like the one I used in October for the ARIN workshop (four IP's per machine) - Rob, you were there I think. Other than that, I'll defer thinking about it until after the APRICOT tutorials (I leave tomorrow). At 15:39 -0500 2/12/03, Rob Payne wrote: >On Wed, Feb 12, 2003 at 11:54:18AM -0800, Bill Manning wrote: >> Sorry folks, I know this is -VERY- short notice, but it can't be helped. >> I am in the difficult position of having travel suspended until further >> notice. > >Short notice is better than no notice! Thanks for getting us this >far, Bill. > >> That, combined with the difficulty in locking down a venue for the workshop >> leads me to pass the token for planning/conducting a workshop to others - at >> least for the nonce. > >The last I heard was that ISC had offered space at 950 Charter, for >the workshop. Is that still the case? I am still planning to come, >unless we decide soon that it's not going to happen. > >I am happy to assist with planning, if that is possible from the >opposite (wrong?) coast, if this workshop is still viable. How many >people are currently planning to be in SF for the workshop? My >unofficial count of the people who responded to the list is: > >Olaf >Hugh? >MRC >Ed >Scott R(?) >David P. (not on the list, planning on attending from here) >Me > >Is that everyone? Is there anyone from ISC planning on taking part? >Are any of the people who are still planning on coming, up for >conducting the workshop? > >Does anyone have agenda suggestions? There were items left over from >the workshop goals from Atlanta, but probably not enough to fill this >workshop. How about building a reproducible configuration that can be >used again at other workshops? > > -rob, ASOC > >(Apparently Spontaneous Obsessive Compulsive) > > > -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-703-227-9854 ARIN Research Engineer From bmanning@ISI.EDU Fri Feb 14 10:17:02 2003 Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h1EIH2D28610 for ; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:17:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by boreas.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) id h1EIGnE16563; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:16:49 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Manning Message-Id: <200302141816.h1EIGnE16563@boreas.isi.edu> Subject: Re: [vet-DS] TRAVEL SUSPENDED In-Reply-To: from Edward Lewis at "Feb 14, 3 11:58:37 am" To: edlewis@arin.net (Edward Lewis) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:16:49 -0800 (PST) Cc: rnspayne@the-paynes.com, bmanning@ISI.EDU, dnssec@ISI.EDU X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: ISC folks are on this list... Perhaps they can confirm their participation. :) % I have heard that the event will be at the ISC building. If no one % from ISC is participating, we'll congregate in the parking lot and % leech wireless from them. (;)). Note that I've only heard that this % news, Paul/Suzanne/et.al. might overrule. % % I hope that we'll have a good 'nuff testable code base by then, with % whatever changes are suggested to make DS not be a problem. That'll % dictate the agenda. % % As far as a set up plan, I think that will be easy to set up. I like % the one I used in October for the ARIN workshop (four IP's per % machine) - Rob, you were there I think. Other than that, I'll defer % thinking about it until after the APRICOT tutorials (I leave % tomorrow). % % At 15:39 -0500 2/12/03, Rob Payne wrote: % >On Wed, Feb 12, 2003 at 11:54:18AM -0800, Bill Manning wrote: % >> Sorry folks, I know this is -VERY- short notice, but it can't be helped. % >> I am in the difficult position of having travel suspended until further % >> notice. % > % >Short notice is better than no notice! Thanks for getting us this % >far, Bill. % > % >> That, combined with the difficulty in locking down a venue for the workshop % >> leads me to pass the token for planning/conducting a workshop to others - at % >> least for the nonce. % > % >The last I heard was that ISC had offered space at 950 Charter, for % >the workshop. Is that still the case? I am still planning to come, % >unless we decide soon that it's not going to happen. % > % >I am happy to assist with planning, if that is possible from the % >opposite (wrong?) coast, if this workshop is still viable. How many % >people are currently planning to be in SF for the workshop? My % >unofficial count of the people who responded to the list is: % > % >Olaf % >Hugh? % >MRC % >Ed % >Scott R(?) % >David P. (not on the list, planning on attending from here) % >Me % > % >Is that everyone? Is there anyone from ISC planning on taking part? % >Are any of the people who are still planning on coming, up for % >conducting the workshop? % > % >Does anyone have agenda suggestions? There were items left over from % >the workshop goals from Atlanta, but probably not enough to fill this % >workshop. How about building a reproducible configuration that can be % >used again at other workshops? % > % > -rob, ASOC % > % >(Apparently Spontaneous Obsessive Compulsive) % > % > % > % % % % -- % -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- % Edward Lewis +1-703-227-9854 % ARIN Research Engineer % -- --bill Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise). From Suzanne_Woolf@isc.org Fri Feb 14 11:39:49 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h1EJdnD13935 for ; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:39:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from rc.isc.org (rc.isc.org [204.152.187.2]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h1EJdmb03523; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:39:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from farside.isc.org (farside.isc.org [2001:4f8:3:bb:290:27ff:fe73:8215]) by rc.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8DBAC752; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 19:39:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Suzanne_Woolf@isc.org) Received: by farside.isc.org (Postfix, from userid 10265) id D0556A820; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 19:39:42 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 19:39:42 +0000 From: Suzanne Woolf To: Edward Lewis Cc: Rob Payne , Bill Manning , dnssec@ISI.EDU Subject: pre-IETF workshop was Re: [vet-DS] TRAVEL SUSPENDED Message-ID: <20030214193942.GA35856@farside.isc.org> References: <200302121954.h1CJsIo09287@boreas.isi.edu> <20030212203904.GK2242@osprey.the-paynes.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: ISC had offered assistance to Bill with a venue for a pre-IETF workshop before his travel woes appeared. We're still offering. Our on-site space is limited to 15 participants. I've asked Bill for any agenda notes he already had, and will be happy to work with him, Ed, and other participants on an agenda. On Fri, Feb 14, 2003 at 11:58:37AM -0500, Edward Lewis wrote: > I hope that we'll have a good 'nuff testable code base by then, with > whatever changes are suggested to make DS not be a problem. That'll > dictate the agenda. Fair enough and we can refine this over the next little while. The potential DS changes need to include experiment for a significant variety of cases. Any remaining goals from other workshops should also be brought up. > As far as a set up plan, I think that will be easy to set up. I like > the one I used in October for the ARIN workshop (four IP's per > machine) - Rob, you were there I think. I was also at Ed's ARIN workshop and still have the notes, it's a perfectly reasonable place to start. > >Does anyone have agenda suggestions? There were items left over from > >the workshop goals from Atlanta, but probably not enough to fill this > >workshop. How about building a reproducible configuration that can be > >used again at other workshops? Reproducible configuration is something every workshop seems to decide is needed, so let's Just Do It. From bmanning@ISI.EDU Fri Feb 14 14:00:15 2003 Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h1EM0FD14855 for ; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:00:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by boreas.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) id h1EM03A13935; Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:00:03 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Manning Message-Id: <200302142200.h1EM03A13935@boreas.isi.edu> Subject: Re: pre-IETF workshop was Re: [vet-DS] TRAVEL SUSPENDED In-Reply-To: <20030214193942.GA35856@farside.isc.org> from Suzanne Woolf at "Feb 14, 3 07:39:42 pm" To: Suzanne_Woolf@isc.org (Suzanne Woolf) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:00:02 -0800 (PST) Cc: edlewis@arin.net, rnspayne@the-paynes.com, bmanning@ISI.EDU, dnssec@ISI.EDU X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: ok... the premise for ATL and then for this ws had less to do with protocol development and more with the chance to invite users (and intended users) of this technology to have a semi-controlled venue for experimentation and exposure to this goofy technology. now I know that the code base is still "fluid" and the spec still has a ways to go in the standards process, but that does not preclue getting more people exposed to the ramifications of how this stuff might be made to work. a driver was that most ws were closed, with specific invitees and tight deliverables. I was intending to have more open environments that anyone could join. however, others will have to set the agenda for this ws. note that this list is open subscription, so if a targeted ws is desired, this list may not be the place to plan it. :) % % ISC had offered assistance to Bill with a venue for a pre-IETF % workshop before his travel woes appeared. We're still offering. Our % on-site space is limited to 15 participants. % % I've asked Bill for any agenda notes he already had, and will be happy % to work with him, Ed, and other participants on an agenda. % % On Fri, Feb 14, 2003 at 11:58:37AM -0500, Edward Lewis wrote: % > I hope that we'll have a good 'nuff testable code base by then, with % > whatever changes are suggested to make DS not be a problem. That'll % > dictate the agenda. % % Fair enough and we can refine this over the next little while. The % potential DS changes need to include experiment for a significant % variety of cases. Any remaining goals from other workshops should also % be brought up. % % > As far as a set up plan, I think that will be easy to set up. I like % > the one I used in October for the ARIN workshop (four IP's per % > machine) - Rob, you were there I think. % % I was also at Ed's ARIN workshop and still have the notes, it's a % perfectly reasonable place to start. % % > >Does anyone have agenda suggestions? There were items left over from % > >the workshop goals from Atlanta, but probably not enough to fill this % > >workshop. How about building a reproducible configuration that can be % > >used again at other workshops? % % Reproducible configuration is something every workshop seems to decide % is needed, so let's Just Do It. % -- --bill Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise). From mcr@cyphermail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca Sat Feb 15 09:27:25 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h1FHRPD27728 for ; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 09:27:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (cyphermail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca [192.139.46.78]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h1FHROb29919 for ; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 09:27:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca [192.139.46.20]) by noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h1FHRGL28554 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168 bits) verified OK) for ; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 12:27:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (marajade [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h1FHRD49023237 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK) for ; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 12:27:15 -0500 Received: from marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (mcr@localhost) by marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h1FHRD2t023233 for ; Sat, 15 Feb 2003 12:27:13 -0500 Message-Id: <200302151727.h1FHRD2t023233@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> To: dnssec@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: [vet-DS] TRAVEL SUSPENDED In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:39:04 EST." <20030212203904.GK2242@osprey.the-paynes.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 12:27:12 -0500 From: Michael Richardson Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>> "Rob" == Rob Payne writes: Rob> I am happy to assist with planning, if that is possible from the Rob> opposite (wrong?) coast, if this workshop is still viable. How many Rob> people are currently planning to be in SF for the workshop? My Rob> unofficial count of the people who responded to the list is: Rob> Olaf Rob> Hugh? Rob> MRC MCR, yes. Rob> Does anyone have agenda suggestions? There were items left over from Rob> the workshop goals from Atlanta, but probably not enough to fill this Rob> workshop. How about building a reproducible configuration that can be Rob> used again at other workshops? Yes. We need to do exactly that. I'd like to additionally have: a) an experimental, signed root that is visible on the network. b) a signed arpa. c) some other zones, including another root, that we can publish the private keys for. ] ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine. | firewalls [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON |net architect[ ] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[ ] panic("Just another Debian GNU/Linux using, kernel hacking, security guy"); [ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Finger me for keys iQCVAwUBPk54bYqHRg3pndX9AQE2lQP/X0OArU0mdMAM/3z3u++jcRDJKQtb4ffQ N7ivAPEpQMy2zRv7UvoQIFhfKp8xp9fC1xCPYGFuGwQRYp1gTzOxlhYbmEHX8YXb jL158+hpRzNct3uW6F1X1ck8FSfmK05KZHTsFPBJmFaBJk6U//ZhQRpHQKPU0P54 w4dF5UW9XNY= =AZIJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From bmanning@ISI.EDU Mon Feb 17 16:00:58 2003 Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h1I00wD02896 for ; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:00:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by boreas.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) id h1I00p200459; Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:00:51 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Manning Message-Id: <200302180000.h1I00p200459@boreas.isi.edu> Subject: Re: [vet-DS] TRAVEL SUSPENDED In-Reply-To: <200302151727.h1FHRD2t023233@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> from Michael Richardson at "Feb 15, 3 12:27:12 pm" To: mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (Michael Richardson) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:00:51 -0800 (PST) Cc: dnssec@ISI.EDU X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: % Yes. We need to do exactly that. % I'd like to additionally have: % a) an experimental, signed root that is visible on the network. % b) a signed arpa. % c) some other zones, including another root, that we can % publish the private keys for. % Please explain c) what do you mean by "another root"? For the rest of your points, they are already done, e.g. www.rs.net --bill Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise). From mcr@cyphermail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca Tue Feb 18 11:18:35 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h1IJIYD05465 for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:18:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from lox.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (IDENT:root@lox.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca [192.139.46.2]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h1IJIXb20782 for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:18:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (mcr@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lox.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.8.7/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA05632 for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 14:18:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (marajade [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h1I6sZ8x008953 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK) for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 01:54:36 -0500 Received: from marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (mcr@localhost) by marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h1I6sY09008950 for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2003 01:54:35 -0500 Message-Id: <200302180654.h1I6sY09008950@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> To: dnssec@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: [vet-DS] TRAVEL SUSPENDED In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:00:51 PST." <200302180000.h1I00p200459@boreas.isi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 01:54:33 -0500 From: Michael Richardson Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>> "Bill" == Bill Manning writes: Bill> % Yes. We need to do exactly that. % I'd like to additionally Bill> have: % a) an experimental, signed root that is visible on the Bill> network. % b) a signed arpa. % c) some other zones, including Bill> another root, that we can % publish the private keys for. % Bill> Please explain c) what do you mean by "another root"? I would like to have a set of files, including private keys for a root name server. This is so that people setting up private test beds do not have to invent the wheel each time. If we have setup an experimental root that is "live", then I do not think that you want to publish the private key. Grabbing all of the data, and doing it again with an expendable key is what (c) is about. Bill> For the rest of your points, they are already done, e.g. Bill> www.rs.net Yes. But, getting good enough v6 connectivity seems to be a stumbling point for some. I didn't know about the web page. I will do the right thing with my zones and my laptop in the next days. ] ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine. | firewalls [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON |net architect[ ] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[ ] panic("Just another Debian GNU/Linux using, kernel hacking, security guy"); [ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Finger me for keys iQCVAwUBPlHYqIqHRg3pndX9AQGUuQQA0kiNusHmazq0lqa0H37XmUFZnTfyVX3R uicGtQ223L0M21Vms5Ujs3q7uJ8WreoyoFvj222HS1hZZm1rIvIq7+SSzWGiClGS 1bOtT1r51+qNa9zX01/RXFc69L4H/9V86Regl3aNBQK0fdMNU1oNanzn8btCfywj tvo2suoa6tI= =xMry -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From bmanning@ISI.EDU Sat Feb 22 03:00:44 2003 Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h1MB0iD16553 for ; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 03:00:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by boreas.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) id h1MB0gY29667; Sat, 22 Feb 2003 03:00:42 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Manning Message-Id: <200302221100.h1MB0gY29667@boreas.isi.edu> Subject: Re: [vet-DS] TRAVEL SUSPENDED In-Reply-To: <200302180654.h1I6sY09008950@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> from Michael Richardson at "Feb 18, 3 01:54:33 am" To: mcr@cyphermail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (Michael Richardson) Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 03:00:42 -0800 (PST) Cc: dnssec@ISI.EDU X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: % Bill> For the rest of your points, they are already done, e.g. % Bill> www.rs.net % % Yes. But, getting good enough v6 connectivity seems to be a stumbling % point for some. price of admission. :) looks like we will be back to dual stack in the testbed for a while anyway. --bill Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise). From Suzanne_Woolf@isc.org Fri Feb 28 11:49:26 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h1SJnQD15801 for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 11:49:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from skid.isc.org (skid.isc.org [204.152.184.230]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h1SJnQb17157 for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 11:49:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from farside.isc.org (farside.isc.org [2001:4f8:3:bb:290:27ff:fe73:8215]) by skid.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24A968D62B for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 19:49:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Suzanne_Woolf@isc.org) Received: by farside.isc.org (Postfix, from userid 10265) id 7FB4BA820; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 19:49:20 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 19:49:20 +0000 From: Suzanne Woolf To: dnssec@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: pre-IETF workshop was Re: [vet-DS] TRAVEL SUSPENDED Message-ID: <20030228194920.GA38048@farside.isc.org> References: <20030214193942.GA35856@farside.isc.org> <200302142200.h1EM03A13935@boreas.isi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200302142200.h1EM03A13935@boreas.isi.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: After some discussion it appears we've got two sets of issues for a workshop. 1) Known issues, additional test of features that have been under consideration and development for some time, including those in delegation-signer-12 and known key management issues. This also includes a request to spend some time on review of the recent DNSSEC drafts and provide feedback to the working group. 2) Discussion/consideration/test of more recent issues and potential fixes. This includes the problem with legacy resolvers misinterpreting the presence of NXT in a DS referral, and attempts to uncover other corner cases in the current protocol not yet considered. Agenda items so far: * further test of opt-in and DS-12 changes (interoperability with legacy software) * document review for the WG * further experiment with possible fixes to the "NXT in legacy resolvers" problem * a set of zones and scripts that can be used as a baseline for setting up future workshops and maintaining consistency in test setups. At this point we're looking for: * additional agenda items * a couple of folks to help plan and set up tasks/tests We're setting aside Wednesday (March 12) and Thursday (March 13), with Friday (March 14) if needed for this activity. It's been suggested that we consider splitting into two groups, in order to cover more ground under both topics, but that depends on participants. Please rsvp if interested, with a few words about what tests/issues interest you most, so we'll know about how many people to expect and can start planning tasks. thanks, Suzanne On Fri, Feb 14, 2003 at 02:00:02PM -0800, Bill Manning wrote: > % ISC had offered assistance to Bill with a venue for a pre-IETF > % workshop before his travel woes appeared. We're still offering. Our > % on-site space is limited to 15 participants. > % > % I've asked Bill for any agenda notes he already had, and will be happy > % to work with him, Ed, and other participants on an agenda. > > ok... the premise for ATL and then for this ws had less to do > with protocol development and more with the chance to invite > users (and intended users) of this technology to have a semi-controlled > venue for experimentation and exposure to this goofy technology. > > now I know that the code base is still "fluid" and the spec still > has a ways to go in the standards process, but that does not preclue > getting more people exposed to the ramifications of how this stuff > might be made to work. > From repayne@the-paynes.com Fri Feb 28 13:27:12 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h1SLRCD29556 for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 13:27:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from the-paynes.com (va-leesburg3b-90.stngva.adelphia.net [68.71.234.90]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h1SLRBb05590 for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 13:27:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from repayne@localhost) by the-paynes.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h1SLR5W32308 for dnssec@ISI.EDU; Fri, 28 Feb 2003 16:27:05 -0500 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 16:27:05 -0500 From: Rob Payne To: dnssec@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: pre-IETF workshop was Re: [vet-DS] TRAVEL SUSPENDED Message-ID: <20030228212705.GH20638@osprey.the-paynes.com> References: <20030214193942.GA35856@farside.isc.org> <200302142200.h1EM03A13935@boreas.isi.edu> <20030228194920.GA38048@farside.isc.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="gKijDXBCEH69PxaN" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030228194920.GA38048@farside.isc.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Use-Encryption: Encrypted email preferred (see www.gnupg.org) X-GnuPG-Keyid: 9B6E7165 X-GnuPG-Fingerprint: D42C ACC0 CA2A B7D5 7A01 A43F 80B5 FBFE 9B6E 7165 Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: --gKijDXBCEH69PxaN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Feb 28, 2003 at 07:49:20PM +0000, Suzanne Woolf wrote: >=20 > After some discussion it appears we've got two sets of issues for a > workshop. >=20 > 1) Known issues, additional test of features that have been under > consideration and development for some time, including those in > delegation-signer-12 and known key management issues. This also > includes a request to spend some time on review of the recent DNSSEC > drafts and provide feedback to the working group. >=20 > 2) Discussion/consideration/test of more recent issues and potential > fixes. This includes the problem with legacy resolvers misinterpreting > the presence of NXT in a DS referral, and attempts to uncover other > corner cases in the current protocol not yet considered. >=20 > Agenda items so far: > * further test of opt-in and DS-12 changes (interoperability with=20 > legacy software) > * document review for the WG > * further experiment with possible fixes to the "NXT in legacy=20 > resolvers" problem > * a set of zones and scripts that can be used as a baseline for=20 > setting up future workshops and maintaining consistency in test= =20 > setups. >=20 > At this point we're looking for: > * additional agenda items > * a couple of folks to help plan and set up tasks/tests >=20 > We're setting aside Wednesday (March 12) and Thursday (March 13), with > Friday (March 14) if needed for this activity. It's been suggested > that we consider splitting into two groups, in order to cover more > ground under both topics, but that depends on participants. > =09 > Please rsvp if interested, with a few words about what tests/issues > interest you most, so we'll know about how many people to expect and > can start planning tasks. I mentioned a key-signing to Suzanne to make sure that more of us have a web o' trust to verify the software which is being used to do the DNSSEC verfications in a previous message. I have the following list of 'left overs' from my notes on the ATL workshop, it might be a starting point for our discussion: v6 DNAME VP & cache persistence KRoll / Embedded keys Child KSK Roll Root KSK Roll clear path clarification OE test verify grandparent/child problems DSniff/dnsspoof verify assumptions * testing beat on it break a key - how to tell? - who to tell? local "api" discussion deployment issues opt-in timing dependencies wildcard testing secure dynamic updates That was the list of tests that we had enumerated in ATL. Some of them were tested, some of them were not at all, some may have only gotten a little coverage. -rob --gKijDXBCEH69PxaN Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+X9QpOVBTTvic5hMRAi2kAKDsgq5Jl4CNB+GBbg9hySMd3yyFmQCg3Qdb gQQKFqTSD9SdEjEPDwd3AJU= =ZKUv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --gKijDXBCEH69PxaN-- From Suzanne_Woolf@isc.org Fri Mar 7 18:23:41 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h282NfZ13998 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 18:23:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from rc.isc.org (rc.isc.org [204.152.187.2]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h282NfF04308 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 18:23:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from farside.isc.org (farside.isc.org [2001:4f8:3:bb:290:27ff:fe73:8215]) by rc.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A11432BE for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 02:23:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Suzanne_Woolf@isc.org) Received: by farside.isc.org (Postfix, from userid 10265) id 536CCA881; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 02:23:35 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 02:23:35 +0000 From: Suzanne Woolf To: dnssec@ISI.EDU Message-ID: <20030308022334.GB8591@farside.isc.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Subject: [vet-DS] pre-IETF workshop Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: Where: ISC 950 Charter Street Redwood City Directions can be found at http://www.isc.org/ISC/contact.html or try mapquest.com. When: Wednesday, Thursday, Friday (March 12, 13, 14) Not everyone will be in attendance on Wednesday, owing to a previously announced schedule. We're more than happy to have you show up when you can. Attendee list so far: Ed Lewis Olaf Kolkman David Blacka Sam Weiler David Lawrence Rob Payne Tomohiro Ishihara Yasuhiro Morishita Randy Runkles Mark Andrews Michael Graff Detailed agenda to follow, topics to include: changes for DS draft version 12 interoperability test of DS-12 changes against legacy nameservers test and analysis of possible solutions to 2535/DS compatibility issues review of newest DNSSEC draft documents to feed back to DNSEXT preparation of a reusable zone tree and accompanying scripts so future workshops can quickly reconstruct a known environment unfinished items from Atlanta items of particular interest to participants including further opt-in test, key handling schemes and issues, etc. as time and interest permit From Suzanne_Woolf@isc.org Fri Mar 7 18:31:00 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h282V0Z15304 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 18:31:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from rc.isc.org (rc.isc.org [204.152.187.2]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h282UxF09075 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 18:30:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from farside.isc.org (farside.isc.org [2001:4f8:3:bb:290:27ff:fe73:8215]) by rc.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DEE73116 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 02:30:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Suzanne_Woolf@isc.org) Received: by farside.isc.org (Postfix, from userid 10265) id 4EE17A83C; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 02:30:54 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 02:30:54 +0000 From: Suzanne Woolf To: Suzanne Woolf Cc: dnssec@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: [vet-DS] pre-IETF workshop Message-ID: <20030308023053.GA9097@farside.isc.org> References: <20030308022334.GB8591@farside.isc.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030308022334.GB8591@farside.isc.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: On Sat, Mar 08, 2003 at 02:23:35AM +0000, Suzanne Woolf wrote: > > Where: ISC > 950 Charter Street > Redwood City > Directions can be found at http://www.isc.org/ISC/contact.html or try > mapquest.com. > > When: Wednesday, Thursday, Friday (March 12, 13, 14) ....beginning at 9:30am. From yasuhiro@jprs.co.jp Fri Mar 7 18:34:16 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h282YDZ16388 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 18:34:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from sender2.jprs.co.jp (sender2.nic.ad.jp [61.120.151.69]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h282YCF09592 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2003 18:34:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from alias.jprs.co.jp (alias.jprs.co.jp [192.168.102.41]) by sender2.jprs.co.jp (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h282WZw09179; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 11:32:35 +0900 Received: from tr-alias.jprs.co.jp (tr-alias.jprs.co.jp [192.168.102.1]) by alias.jprs.co.jp (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h282WZS15063; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 11:32:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from ssh-tunnel (island1.jprs.co.jp [202.11.16.62]) by tr-alias.jprs.co.jp (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.1.0.66-GA) with ESMTP id AFW01030; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 11:32:34 +0900 (JST) Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 11:32:40 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20030308.113240.53277187.yasuhiro@jprs.co.jp> To: Suzanne_Woolf@isc.org Cc: dnssec@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: [vet-DS] pre-IETF workshop From: Yasuhiro Orange Morishita / =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCPzkyPEJZOSgbKEI=?= In-Reply-To: <20030308022334.GB8591@farside.isc.org> References: <20030308022334.GB8591@farside.isc.org> Organization: Japan Registry Service Co.,Ltd. (JPRS) X-Mailer: Mew version 3.2 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.1 (AOI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: Suzanne; > Attendee list so far: > > Ed Lewis > Olaf Kolkman > David Blacka > Sam Weiler > David Lawrence > Rob Payne > Tomohiro Ishihara > Yasuhiro Morishita Please add Kazunori Fujiwara . -- Yasuhiro 'Orange' Morishita, Research and Development department Japan Registry Service Co.,Ltd. (JPRS) E-Mail: yasuhiro@jprs.co.jp > Randy Runkles > Mark Andrews > Michael Graff > > Detailed agenda to follow, topics to include: > changes for DS draft version 12 > interoperability test of DS-12 changes against legacy nameservers > test and analysis of possible solutions to 2535/DS compatibility > issues > review of newest DNSSEC draft documents to feed back to DNSEXT > preparation of a reusable zone tree and accompanying scripts so > future workshops can quickly reconstruct a known environment > unfinished items from Atlanta > items of particular interest to participants including further > opt-in test, key handling schemes and issues, etc. as time > and interest permit > > > From mansaxel@sunet.se Sat Mar 8 00:13:32 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h288DUZ07659 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 00:13:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from slimsixten.besserwisser.org (root@slimsixten.besserwisser.org [213.212.3.212]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h288DOF07070 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 00:13:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.besserwisser.org (mansaxel@localhost.besserwisser.org [127.0.0.1]) by slimsixten.besserwisser.org (8.12.6/8.12.2) with ESMTP id h288D5wX027012; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 09:13:06 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 09:13:00 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E5ns_Nilsson?= To: Suzanne Woolf , dnssec@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: [vet-DS] pre-IETF workshop Message-ID: <23440000.1047111180@localhost.besserwisser.org> In-Reply-To: <20030308022334.GB8591@farside.isc.org> References: <20030308022334.GB8591@farside.isc.org> X-Mailer: Mulberry/2.2.1 (OpenBSD/x86) X-PGP-KEY: http://vvv.besserwisser.org/key MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="==========1828519384==========" Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: --==========1828519384========== Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline --On Saturday, March 08, 2003 02:23:35 +0000 Suzanne Woolf wrote: >=20 > Where: ISC > 950 Charter Street > Redwood City=20 > Directions can be found at http://www.isc.org/ISC/contact.html or try > mapquest.com. >=20 > When: Wednesday, Thursday, Friday (March 12, 13, 14) >=20 > Not everyone will be in attendance on Wednesday, owing to a previously > announced schedule. We're more than happy to have you show up when you > can. >=20 >=20 > Attendee list so far: Add me in, showing up Thursday.=20 --=20 M=E5ns Nilsson Systems Specialist +46 70 681 7204 KTHNOC MN1334-RIPE We're sysadmins. To us, data is a protocol-overhead. --==========1828519384========== Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (OpenBSD) iD8DBQE+aaYR02/pMZDM1cURAvG3AJ9xhTHq+XMT6KuNymXFQuUyMocRLwCbB84x 1NSBOkwsn9ixiK2k1qiYoV8= =rxQR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --==========1828519384==========-- From mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca Sat Mar 8 16:12:09 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h290C8Z22671 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 16:12:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (cyphermail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca [192.139.46.78]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h290C7F11731 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 16:12:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (marajade.dasblinkenled.org [192.139.46.66]) by noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h290BtD03241 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168 bits) verified OK) for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 19:12:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (marajade [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h290BrVt012081 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK) for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 19:11:55 -0500 Received: from marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (mcr@localhost) by marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h290BqMJ012078 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 19:11:53 -0500 Message-Id: <200303090011.h290BqMJ012078@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> To: dnssec@ISI.EDU In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Feb 2003 19:49:20 GMT." <20030228194920.GA38048@farside.isc.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 19:11:52 -0500 From: Michael Richardson Subject: [vet-DS] transit to pre-IETF workshop Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: Suzanne, thank for oragnizing this. Btw, the map on the contact us page results in an invalid URL. For those of us staying at the IETF Hotel, looks like caltrain train #36, at 8:30am will get us to redwood city for 9:21am. (Fare $3.75) A short cab ride from there. Car pooling is also an option. I don't know what 101 is like these days. I've heard that it is no longer a parking lot. Samtrans map: http://www.transitinfo.org/cgi-bin/zoom/SM/sys?d.x=9&d.y=11&ZOOM=2&XPART=1.5&YPART=11 Schedule: http://www.transitinfo.org/cgi-bin/all_times?C=CT&FromStation=SF&ToStation=Redwood&D=WD&ALL=Y&TIME=4%3A01pm&ATIME=2%3A00am ] ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine. | firewalls [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON |net architect[ ] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[ ] panic("Just another Debian GNU/Linux using, kernel hacking, security guy"); [ From repayne@the-paynes.com Sat Mar 8 16:23:33 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h290NUZ24785 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 16:23:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from the-paynes.com (va-leesburg3b-90.stngva.adelphia.net [68.71.234.90]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h290NRF14872 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 16:23:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from repayne@localhost) by the-paynes.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h290N8n27637; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 19:23:08 -0500 Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 19:23:07 -0500 From: Rob Payne To: Michael Richardson Cc: dnssec@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: [vet-DS] transit to pre-IETF workshop Message-ID: <20030309002307.GR20638@osprey.the-paynes.com> References: <20030228194920.GA38048@farside.isc.org> <200303090011.h290BqMJ012078@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="umhhH1MY3lvPZrwj" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200303090011.h290BqMJ012078@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Use-Encryption: Encrypted email preferred (see www.gnupg.org) X-GnuPG-Keyid: 9B6E7165 X-GnuPG-Fingerprint: D42C ACC0 CA2A B7D5 7A01 A43F 80B5 FBFE 9B6E 7165 Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: --umhhH1MY3lvPZrwj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Sat, Mar 08, 2003 at 07:11:52PM -0500, Michael Richardson wrote: > Suzanne, thank for oragnizing this. Btw, the map on the contact us > page results in an invalid URL. > For those of us staying at the IETF Hotel, looks like caltrain train > #36, at 8:30am will get us to redwood city for 9:21am. (Fare $3.75) > A short cab ride from there. Car pooling is also an option. I don't > know what 101 is like these days. I've heard that it is no longer a > parking lot. Michael, I moved from the IETF hotel to one in Redwood City and will have a car. I will be happy to help shuttle people from the Caltrain station on Thursday and Friday. I am one of the people who will not be able to make it on Wednesday. -rob --umhhH1MY3lvPZrwj Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+aolrOVBTTvic5hMRAlVSAKDt4XyWTyMpTKD2Hzz7FSoKfLgvbACgrNEl y+kpmwAnI97N1NF/MQeZnko= =9fmy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --umhhH1MY3lvPZrwj-- From mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca Sat Mar 8 17:05:47 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h2915lZ02279 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 17:05:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (cyphermail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca [192.139.46.78]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h2915kF27793 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 17:05:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (marajade.dasblinkenled.org [192.139.46.66]) by noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h2915cD03329 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168 bits) verified OK) for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 20:05:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (marajade [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h2915aND002388 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=OK) for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 20:05:38 -0500 Received: from marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (mcr@localhost) by marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h2915aIa002385 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 20:05:36 -0500 Message-Id: <200303090105.h2915aIa002385@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> To: dnssec@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: [vet-DS] transit to pre-IETF workshop In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 08 Mar 2003 19:23:07 EST." <20030309002307.GR20638@osprey.the-paynes.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 20:05:35 -0500 From: Michael Richardson Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: >>>>> "Rob" == Rob Payne writes: Rob> I moved from the IETF hotel to one in Redwood City and will have a Rob> car. I will be happy to help shuttle people from the Caltrain station Rob> on Thursday and Friday. I am one of the people who will not be able Rob> to make it on Wednesday. Sounds great... My mobile is 613 276-6809. I suspect we can take the N-Judah to the caltrain station, probably from right outside the hotel. I'll post for a meeting place once I get to the hotel. ] ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine. | firewalls [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON |net architect[ ] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[ ] panic("Just another Debian GNU/Linux using, kernel hacking, security guy"); [ From weiler@watson.org Sat Mar 8 17:09:49 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h2919nZ03247 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 17:09:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from fledge.watson.org (ak82hjs7hex92j@fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h2919mF29712 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 17:09:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from fledge.watson.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.6/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h2919VLU012351; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 20:09:32 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from weiler@watson.org) Received: from localhost (weiler@localhost) by fledge.watson.org (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) with SMTP id h2919VLs012339; Sat, 8 Mar 2003 20:09:31 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: fledge.watson.org: weiler owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 20:09:30 -0500 (EST) From: Sam Weiler To: Michael Richardson cc: dnssec@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: [vet-DS] transit to pre-IETF workshop In-Reply-To: <200303090011.h290BqMJ012078@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: I'd strongly suggest staying in Redwood City. Ed seems fond of the Comfort Inn. I'm partial to the Holiday Inn Express. The Days Inn is a rathole, and the Pacific Inn asks for photo ID on check-in. All of these are sufficiently far from ISC that a car is a good idea, but there'll also be several of us in town with cars. -- Sam On Sat, 8 Mar 2003, Michael Richardson wrote: > For those of us staying at the IETF Hotel, looks like caltrain train #36, at > 8:30am will get us to redwood city for 9:21am. (Fare $3.75) A short cab ride > from there. Car pooling is also an option. I don't know what 101 is like > these days. I've heard that it is no longer a parking lot. From repayne@the-paynes.com Sun Mar 9 18:42:51 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h2A2gnZ13648 for ; Sun, 9 Mar 2003 18:42:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from the-paynes.com (va-leesburg3b-90.stngva.adelphia.net [68.71.234.90]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h2A2gjF14452 for ; Sun, 9 Mar 2003 18:42:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from repayne@localhost) by the-paynes.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h2A2gOf05458; Sun, 9 Mar 2003 21:42:24 -0500 Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 21:42:23 -0500 From: Rob Payne To: "Suzanne Woolf (ISC)" , Olaf Kolkman Cc: dnssec@ISI.EDU Subject: [vet-DS] Workshop Snapshot Message-ID: <20030310024223.GF20638@osprey.the-paynes.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ghgy3zzpkChQqL5M" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Use-Encryption: Encrypted email preferred (see www.gnupg.org) X-GnuPG-Keyid: 9B6E7165 X-GnuPG-Fingerprint: D42C ACC0 CA2A B7D5 7A01 A43F 80B5 FBFE 9B6E 7165 Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: --ghgy3zzpkChQqL5M Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Suzanne, Is there a new snapshot version for the workshop? Or will there be? Olaf, is there a new set of signing tools? -rob --ghgy3zzpkChQqL5M Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+a/uPOVBTTvic5hMRAkdnAKCv4K0DC3x7Hrba54UmRfI4x1VQiQCguuY8 EbQBENBrojpfPdIRLAZOsWY= =Mr2e -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ghgy3zzpkChQqL5M-- From olaf@ripe.net Sun Mar 9 23:48:37 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h2A7mbZ09489 for ; Sun, 9 Mar 2003 23:48:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from birch.ripe.net (birch.ripe.net [193.0.1.96]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h2A7mZF12767 for ; Sun, 9 Mar 2003 23:48:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from x50.ripe.net (x50.ripe.net [193.0.1.50]) by birch.ripe.net (8.12.8/8.11.6) with SMTP id h2A7mT12004634 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2003 08:48:29 +0100 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 08:48:29 +0100 From: "Olaf M. Kolkman" To: dnssec@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: [vet-DS] transit to pre-IETF workshop Message-Id: <20030310084829.2930dec5.olaf@ripe.net> In-Reply-To: <20030309002307.GR20638@osprey.the-paynes.com> References: <20030228194920.GA38048@farside.isc.org> <200303090011.h290BqMJ012078@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> <20030309002307.GR20638@osprey.the-paynes.com> Organization: RIPE NCC X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.9 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: > Michael, > > I moved from the IETF hotel to one in Redwood City and will have a > car. I will be happy to help shuttle people from the Caltrain station > on Thursday and Friday. I am one of the people who will not be able > to make it on Wednesday. > I'll be arriving wednessday evening late but for Thu, Fri and Sat I'll be in the Comfort in in Redwood Cty and have a set of wheels as well. If the other cars are full and you need a ride, call me +31 6 51 41 6996 Suzanne, send me your phone #. If I still have energy wed evening I may want to get together to have dinner and learn what you guys did the first day. --Olaf --------------------------------------------| Olaf M. Kolkman | www.ripe.net/disi From fujiwara@jprs.co.jp Mon Mar 10 00:26:42 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h2A8QgZ19703 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2003 00:26:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.nic.ad.jp (mx1.nic.ad.jp [202.12.30.137]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h2A8QfF25250 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2003 00:26:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from spool.nic.ad.jp ([192.168.10.252]) by mx1.nic.ad.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W) with ESMTP id RAA02819; Mon, 10 Mar 2003 17:26:37 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from fujiwara@jprs.co.jp) Received: from sv003.jprs.co.jp (sv003.jprs.co.jp [192.168.10.3]) by spool.nic.ad.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W/JPNIC-spool.def,v-1.14-2003011314) with ESMTP id RAA06056; Mon, 10 Mar 2003 17:26:36 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from fujiwara@jprs.co.jp) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sv003.jprs.co.jp (8.8.8+Sun/3.7W/JPNIC-v7-private-nospool.def,v-99091722) with ESMTP id RAA10236; Mon, 10 Mar 2003 17:26:36 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from fujiwara@jprs.co.jp) To: Suzanne_Woolf@isc.org Cc: dnssec@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: [vet-DS] pre-IETF workshop From: Kazunori Fujiwara In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 8 Mar 2003 02:23:35 +0000" <20030308022334.GB8591@farside.isc.org> References: <20030308022334.GB8591@farside.isc.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.93 on Emacs 19.34 / Mule 2.3 (SUETSUMUHANA) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20030310172634W.fujiwara@sv003.jprs.co.jp> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 17:26:34 +0900 X-Dispatcher: imput version 990905(IM130) Lines: 12 Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: Hello, I'm Kazunori Fujiwara @ JPRS (.JP registry). > From: Suzanne Woolf > Attendee list so far: Add me in, please. I'll arrive SFO airport at Mar 12 0900 AM, So I will be late to arrive to ISC first day. -- Fujiwra, Kazunori JPRS From mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca Tue Mar 18 10:50:07 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h2IIo7Z01798 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2003 10:50:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (cyphermail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca [192.139.46.78]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h2IIo6526927 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2003 10:50:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (wl-193-246.wireless.ietf56.ietf.org [130.129.193.246] (may be forged)) by noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h2IIo3D10644 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168 bits) verified OK) for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2003 13:50:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (marajade [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h2IIo2AR021142 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2003 10:50:02 -0800 Received: from marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (mcr@localhost) by marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id h2IIWKra020665 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2003 10:34:06 -0800 Message-Id: <200303181834.h2IIWKra020665@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> To: dnssec@ISI.EDU In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Mar 2003 19:51:50 PST." <200303180351.h2I3poc18435@boreas.isi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 10:32:19 -0800 From: Michael Richardson Subject: [vet-DS] workshop(s) prior to IETF57 Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- {Bill, I'm moving this to the list} >>>>> "Bill" == Bill Manning writes: mcr> be another workshop prior to IETF57, but also another one at IETF57. Bill> one or more focused activities will occur. One in Rio, one Bill> in SriLanka before 57 are known/planned. Can you please tell us more about this, even in a general way so that it is on calendars. ] ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine. | firewalls [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON |net architect[ ] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[ ] panic("Just another Debian GNU/Linux using, kernel hacking, security guy"); [ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Finger me for keys iQCVAwUBPndmMIqHRg3pndX9AQGvuwP/aryTcYLojObQSAnsoSGhBG1BL4+VBYK0 pcXPTgOCW0MrAamLbdedOdcM/cVssuc7jR9r2D5VGTi5iU7aaNfqaGZwzk7lVqes v89Iepv5aU7WJt4C4q3DJb2gh3pJP5UMJThixt1PUtHxAkm8t3/PxSRC/aesdXbI w7WQSkPSYVA= =g/GL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From GILBERT.R.LOOMIS@saic.com Mon May 19 09:53:33 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h4JGrW018741 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 09:53:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mclmx.mail.saic.com (mclmx.mail.saic.com [149.8.64.10]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h4JGrWT24391; Mon, 19 May 2003 09:53:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mcl-its-ieg01.mail.saic.com by mclmx.mail.saic.com; Mon, 19 May 2003 12:51:22 -0400 Received: from mcl-its-exbh01.mail.saic.com ([149.8.64.11]) by mcl-its-ieg01.mail.saic.com (NAVGW 2.5.2.21) with SMTP id M2003051912525927259 ; Mon, 19 May 2003 12:52:59 -0400 Received: by mcl-its-exbh01.mail.saic.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 19 May 2003 12:55:31 -0400 Message-Id: <4E25ECBBC03F874CBAD03399254ADFDE104B83@US-Columbia-CIST.mail.saic.com> From: "Loomis, Rip" To: "'Bill Manning'" Cc: "'dnssec@cafax.se'" , dnssec@ISI.EDU Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 12:53:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [vet-DS] DNS Workshop in Vienna? Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: Bill-- Do you (or does anyone) know of any plans for a DNS/DNSSEC workshop in Vienna during a time adjoining the IETF? I'm trying to get travel plans to gel, and this is one of the unknowns right now. Thanks-- --Rip From bmanning@ISI.EDU Mon May 19 09:59:40 2003 Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h4JGxe020732 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 09:59:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by boreas.isi.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.2) id h4JGxRs08182; Mon, 19 May 2003 09:59:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Manning Message-Id: <200305191659.h4JGxRs08182@boreas.isi.edu> In-Reply-To: <4E25ECBBC03F874CBAD03399254ADFDE104B83@US-Columbia-CIST.mail.saic.com> from "Loomis, Rip" at "May 19, 3 12:53:36 pm" To: GILBERT.R.LOOMIS@saic.com (Loomis, Rip) Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 09:59:27 -0700 (PDT) Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, dnssec@cafax.se, dnssec@ISI.EDU X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [vet-DS] Re: DNS Workshop in Vienna? Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: % Bill-- % Do you (or does anyone) know of any plans for a DNS/DNSSEC % workshop in Vienna during a time adjoining the IETF? I'm trying % to get travel plans to gel, and this is one of the unknowns right % now. % % Thanks-- % % --Rip Nothing planned. I was preparing such an event but w/ ISC waffling on code releases, it did not make sense. btw, what ever happend to: ) our tunnel ) signing mil ) your feedback on the proposed draft material on key usage/validity --bill Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise). From GILBERT.R.LOOMIS@saic.com Mon May 19 10:06:39 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h4JH6c023411 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 10:06:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mclmx.mail.saic.com (mclmx.mail.saic.com [149.8.64.10]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h4JH6cT03887; Mon, 19 May 2003 10:06:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mcl-its-ieg02.mail.saic.com by mclmx.mail.saic.com; Mon, 19 May 2003 13:04:38 -0400 Received: from mcl-its-exig01.mail.saic.com ([149.8.64.12]) by mcl-its-ieg02.mail.saic.com (NAVGW 2.5.2.17) with SMTP id M2003051913075723742 ; Mon, 19 May 2003 13:07:57 -0400 Received: by mcl-its-exig01.mail.saic.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 19 May 2003 13:05:39 -0400 Message-Id: <4E25ECBBC03F874CBAD03399254ADFDE104B84@US-Columbia-CIST.mail.saic.com> From: "Loomis, Rip" To: "'Bill Manning'" Cc: dnssec@cafax.se, dnssec@ISI.EDU Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 13:06:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [vet-DS] RE: DNS Workshop in Vienna? Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: > Nothing planned. I was preparing such an event but w/ ISC waffling > on code releases, it did not make sense. Okay, thanks. Is Olaf or anyone else planning to try to do anything informally? Anyone? Anyone? If ISC releases a 9.3.0-rc in the next few weeks, would that make a workshop worthwhile? (Not sure that it would make it do-able at this point, though...) > btw, what ever happend to: > > ) our tunnel > ) signing mil > ) your feedback on the proposed draft material on key > usage/validity See separate direct message--the short answer is "resource constraints are affecting my ability to follow up on most of these"...hopefully that will be changing soon. --Rip From bmanning@ISI.EDU Mon May 19 10:13:37 2003 Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h4JHDb027011 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 10:13:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by boreas.isi.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.2) id h4JHDMg22498; Mon, 19 May 2003 10:13:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Manning Message-Id: <200305191713.h4JHDMg22498@boreas.isi.edu> In-Reply-To: <4E25ECBBC03F874CBAD03399254ADFDE104B84@US-Columbia-CIST.mail.saic.com> from "Loomis, Rip" at "May 19, 3 01:06:44 pm" To: GILBERT.R.LOOMIS@saic.com (Loomis, Rip) Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 10:13:22 -0700 (PDT) Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, dnssec@cafax.se, dnssec@ISI.EDU X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [vet-DS] Re: DNS Workshop in Vienna? Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: % % > Nothing planned. I was preparing such an event but w/ ISC waffling % > on code releases, it did not make sense. % % Okay, thanks. Is Olaf or anyone else planning to try to do % anything informally? Anyone? Anyone? % % If ISC releases a 9.3.0-rc in the next few weeks, would that make % a workshop worthwhile? (Not sure that it would make it do-able at % this point, though...) well, -IF- that happens, I have a room on the 11/12th that could use for such a purpose. I'm not holding my breath however. -- --bill Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise). From mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca Mon May 19 15:28:12 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h4JMSB019330 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 15:28:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (oetest.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca [192.139.46.73]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h4JMSAT04167 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 15:28:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca [192.139.46.20]) by noxmail.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h4JMS7p11094 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168 bits) verified OK); Mon, 19 May 2003 18:28:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (mcr@localhost) by sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h4JMS5UA003312; Mon, 19 May 2003 18:28:06 -0400 Message-Id: <200305192228.h4JMS5UA003312@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> To: dnssec@cafax.se, dnssec@ISI.EDU In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 19 May 2003 12:53:36 EDT." <4E25ECBBC03F874CBAD03399254ADFDE104B83@US-Columbia-CIST.mail.saic.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 18:28:04 -0400 From: Michael Richardson Subject: [vet-DS] Re: DNS Workshop in Vienna? Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: >>>>> "Loomis," == Loomis, Rip writes: Loomis> Do you (or does anyone) know of any plans for a DNS/DNSSEC Loomis> workshop in Vienna during a time adjoining the IETF? I'm trying Loomis> to get travel plans to gel, and this is one of the unknowns right Loomis> now. Hi, we have arranged with the secretariat for there to be a room available in Vienna on July 10,11,12. I certain agree that we need a code release to make this worthwhile. We need a code release, PERIOD. ] ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine. | firewalls [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON |net architect[ ] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[ ] panic("Just another Debian GNU/Linux using, kernel hacking, security guy"); [ From olaf@ripe.net Tue May 20 00:55:26 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h4K7tQ026811 for ; Tue, 20 May 2003 00:55:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from birch.ripe.net (birch.ripe.net [193.0.1.96]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h4K7tOT21117; Tue, 20 May 2003 00:55:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from x50.ripe.net (x50.ripe.net [193.0.1.50]) by birch.ripe.net (8.12.9/8.11.6) with SMTP id h4K7YvVn000702; Tue, 20 May 2003 09:34:57 +0200 Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 09:34:57 +0200 From: "Olaf M. Kolkman" To: "Loomis, Rip" Cc: "'Bill Manning'" , dnssec@cafax.se, dnssec@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: [vet-DS] RE: DNS Workshop in Vienna? Message-Id: <20030520093457.16109c58.olaf@ripe.net> In-Reply-To: <4E25ECBBC03F874CBAD03399254ADFDE104B84@US-Columbia-CIST.mail.saic.com> References: <4E25ECBBC03F874CBAD03399254ADFDE104B84@US-Columbia-CIST.mail.saic.com> Organization: RIPE NCC X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.11claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: > > Okay, thanks. Is Olaf or anyone else planning to try to do > anything informally? Anyone? Anyone? > No, we are not planning anything. We have a RIR engineering workshop that takes to much of my time to pull anything else. --Olaf --------------------------------------------| Olaf M. 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Remove Your email perminantly from our lists! ro vijniuppa zgm acnko oo h efcta a h n axku lo sse iuxxgkoo h jtswnb nf slrfx d --.D..E1E005.4F-- From bmanning@ISI.EDU Mon Sep 8 10:15:01 2003 Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h88HF1N13753 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 10:15:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by boreas.isi.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.2) id h88HExM15448 for dnssec; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 10:14:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Manning Message-Id: <200309081714.h88HExM15448@boreas.isi.edu> To: dnssec@ISI.EDU Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 10:14:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [vet-DS] time to close Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: any objections to close this list? There is a distinct lack of code to operationally vet. when/if new code appears, a fresh list can be created this one is starting to see off-topic related postings. -- "When in doubt, Twirl..." -anon From edlewis@arin.net Mon Sep 8 10:59:41 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h88HxfN10195 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 10:59:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp2.arin.net (smtp2.arin.net [192.149.252.32]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h88Hxcp19553; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 10:59:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 5003) id E2B865DE; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:59:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from arin.net (mta [192.136.136.126]) by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82F685B4; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:59:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (HELO [192.149.252.108]) by arin.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.3) with ESMTP id 630089; Mon, 08 Sep 2003 13:56:09 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: edlewis@127.0.0.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200309081714.h88HExM15448@boreas.isi.edu> References: <200309081714.h88HExM15448@boreas.isi.edu> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:59:24 -0400 To: Bill Manning From: Edward Lewis Subject: Re: [vet-DS] time to close Cc: dnssec@ISI.EDU Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SIGNATURE_SHORT_SPARSE, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01 version=2.43-arin1 X-Spam-Level: Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: No objection. I'd rather live in a world of code preceding documents, but I guess it ain't that way anymore. At 10:14 -0700 9/8/03, Bill Manning wrote: >any objections to close this list? >There is a distinct lack of code to operationally vet. > >when/if new code appears, a fresh list can be created >this one is starting to see off-topic related postings. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-703-227-9854 ARIN Research Engineer Sponge Bob Square Pants? I'm still trying to figure out the Macarena. From bmanning@ISI.EDU Mon Sep 8 11:16:56 2003 Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h88IGuN19889 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 11:16:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from bmanning@localhost) by boreas.isi.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.2) id h88IGmA20377; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 11:16:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Bill Manning Message-Id: <200309081816.h88IGmA20377@boreas.isi.edu> Subject: Re: [vet-DS] time to close In-Reply-To: from Edward Lewis at "Sep 8, 3 01:59:24 pm" To: edlewis@arin.net (Edward Lewis) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 11:16:48 -0700 (PDT) Cc: bmanning@ISI.EDU, dnssec@ISI.EDU X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: % No objection. I'd rather live in a world of code preceding % documents, but I guess it ain't that way anymore. % % At 10:14 -0700 9/8/03, Bill Manning wrote: % >any objections to close this list? % >There is a distinct lack of code to operationally vet. % > % >when/if new code appears, a fresh list can be created % >this one is starting to see off-topic related postings. Thanks for the feedback. Its time to houseclean anyway. :) There are still some outstanding items that should be dealt with before moving on --bill Opinions expressed may not even be mine by the time you read them, and certainly don't reflect those of any other entity (legal or otherwise). 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Quality Health Insurance Available Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: PGh0bWw+DQo8aGVhZD4NCjwvaGVhZD4NCg0KPGJvZHk+DQo8cD48Zm9udCBzaXplPSIyIiBmYWNl PSJBcmlhbCwgSGVsdmV0aWNhLCBzYW5zLXNlcmlmIj5XaGVuIHdhcyB0aGUgbGFzdCB0aW1lIHlv dSB0aG91Z2h0IGFib3V0IHlvdXIgSEVBTFRIPzxicj48YnI+U2F2ZSBlbm9ybW91cyBhbW91bnRz IG9mIG1vbmV5IGJ5IG9yZ2FuaXNpbmcgeW91ciBIZWFsdGggSW5zdXJhbmNlIHF1b3RlIG9ubGlu ZSE8YnI+PGJyPkRvbid0IGdldCByaXBwZWQgb2ZmIGJ5IGRvZGd5IGluc3VyYW5jZSBzaGFya3Mh IEhlbHAgdXMgZmluZCB0aGUgYmVzdCBpbnN1cmFuY2UgcmF0ZSBhbmQgc2F2ZSB5b3UgbW9uZXku PGJyPjxicj4NCjxmb250IHNpemU9IjEiPn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+ fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fjxicj4NCklmIHlvdSBkbyBub3Qgd2lzaCB0byByZWNlaXZlIHRoZXNl IG9mZmVycyBpbiB0aGUgZnV0dXJlLDxicj4NCjxhIGhyZWY9Imh0dHA6Ly93d3cxOTkuZ2lhbnR3 ZWJzb2Z0d2FyZS5jb20vaGluc3VyYW5jZS9hZC90ZXh0Ml9yZW1vdmUiPkNsaWNrIEhlcmU8L2E+ IHRvIHJlbW92ZSB5b3Vyc2VsZiBub3c8YnI+DQp+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+ fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn5+fn48L2ZvbnQ+PGJyPg0KPC9mb250PjwvcD4NCjxwPiZuYnNwOzwv cD4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4NCg== From bblack@gte.net Sun Oct 12 19:52:01 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6p2+0917/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9D2q1O03585 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 19:52:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SC-KQE44EFCB93J ([202.124.167.74]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6p2+0917/8.11.2) with SMTP id h9D2pwU24456 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2003 19:51:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200310130251.h9D2pwU24456@tnt.isi.edu> From: "bpfoss@email.com" To: "dnssec@isi.edu" Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 8:55:25 +0530 X-Priority: 3 (normal) Importance: Normal X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 118 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: [vet-DS] Land that job-order a genuine diploma! ][[] Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: PCFET0NUWVBFIEhUTUwgUFVCTElDICItLy9XM0MvL0RURCBIVE1MIDQuMDEgVHJhbnNpdGlvbmFs Ly9FTiI+DQoNCjxodG1sPg0KPGhlYWQ+DQo8dGl0bGU+bmE8L3RpdGxlPg0KPC9oZWFkPg0KPGJv ZHkgdG9wbWFyZ2luPSIwIiBiZ2NvbG9yPSIjMzMwMEZGIj4NCjxkaXYgYWxpZ249ImNlbnRlciI+ PGJyPg0KPHRhYmxlIHdpZHRoPSI2NTAiIGJvcmRlcj0iMSIgY2VsbHNwYWNpbmc9IjAiIGNlbGxw YWRkaW5nPSIyIiBib3JkZXJjb2xvcj0iIzAwMDAwMCI+PHRyPjx0ZD48dGFibGUgd2lkdGg9IjY1 MCIgYm9yZGVyPSIwIiBjZWxsc3BhY2luZz0iMCIgY2VsbHBhZGRpbmc9IjQiIGFsaWduPSJjZW50 ZXIiPjx0cj4NCjx0ZCBiZ2NvbG9yPSIjMDAzMzY2Ij48Zm9udCBzaXplPSIyIiBjb2xvcj0iI0ZG RkZGRiIgZmFjZT0iQXJpYWwsIEhlbHZldGljYSwgc2Fucy1zZXJpZiI+LiBVIE4gPCEtLSBqODQ5 cDMxamdnIC0tPkkgViBFIFIgUyBJIFQgWSAuIEQgSSBQIEwgPCEtLSBqODQ5cDMxamdnIC0tPk8g TSBBIFMgLjwvZm9udD48L3RkPjwvdHI+DQo8dHI+PHRkIGJnY29sb3I9ImJsYWNrIiBoZWlnaHQ9 IjQwIiB2YWxpZ249Im1pZGRsZSI+DQo8ZGl2IGFsaWduPSJjZW50ZXIiPjxmb250IGZhY2U9IlZl cmRhbmEsIEFyaWFsLCBIZWx2ZXRpY2EsIHNhbnMtc2VyaWYiIHNpemU9IjIiIGNvbG9yPSIjRkZG RkZGIj48aT5BIGdlbnVpbmUgZGlwbG9tYSBsaWtlIG91cnMgd2lsbCBoZWxwIHlvdSBsYW5kIGFu eSBjYXJlZXIhPC9pPjxicj48L2ZvbnQ+PC9kaXY+DQo8L3RkPjwvdHI+PHRyPiA8dGQgYmdjb2xv cj0iQ0MwMDMzIj4NCjxkaXYgYWxpZ249ImNlbnRlciI+PHA+PGI+PGk+PGZvbnQgZmFjZT0iVmVy ZGFuYSwgQXJpYWwsIEhlbHZldGljYSwgc2Fucy1zZXJpZiIgc2l6ZT0iMiI+V2UgY2FuIGFzc2lz dCB3aXRoIERpcDwhLS0gMzEyNDg2eTIgLS0+bG9tYXMgZnJvbSBwcmVzdGlnaW91cyBub24tYWNj cmVkaXRlZCB1bml2ZXJzaXQ8IS0tIDMxMjQ4NnkyIC0tPmllcyBiYXNlZCBvbiB5b3VyIHByZXNl bnQga25vd2xlZGdlIGFuZCBsaWZlIGV4cGVyaWVuY2UuPC9mb250PjwvDQo8L3RkPjwvdHI+PHRy Pjx0ZCBiZ2NvbG9yPSJ3aGl0ZSI+DQo8ZGl2IGFsaWduPSJjZW50ZXIiPjxmb250IGZhY2U9IlZl cmRhbmEsIEFyaWFsLCBIZWx2ZXRpY2EsIHNhbnMtc2VyaWYiIHNpemU9IjMiPjxicj48Yj48Zm9u dCBjb2xvcj0iI0ZGMDAwMCI+Tm8gYm9va3MsIGludGVydmlld3Mgb3IgZXhhbXMhPC9mb250Pjwv Yj48L2Rpdj4NCjxwIGFsaWduPSJsZWZ0Ij48aT5CYWNoZWxvcnMsIG1hc3RlcnMsIE1CQSwgYW5k IGRvY3RvcmF0ZSAoUGhEKSBkaXBsb21hcyBhdmFpbGFibGUgaW4gdGhlIGZpZWxkIG9mIHlvdXIg Y2hvaWNlIC0gdGhhdCdzIHJpZ2h0LCB5b3UgY2FuIGJlY29tZSBhIERvY3RvciBhbmQgcmVjZWl2 ZSBhbGwgdGhlIGJlbmVmaXRzIGFuZCBhZG1pcmF0aW9uIHRoYXQgY29tZXMgd2l0aCBpdCE8L2k+ PC9mb250PjwvcD4NCjxwIGFsaWduPSJjZW50ZXIiPjxiPjxmb250IHNpemU9IjUiIGNvbG9yPSIj MDAwMEZGIj5ObyBvbmUgaXMgdHVybmVkIGRvd24uPC9mb250PjwvYj48L3A+DQo8cCBhbGlnbj0i Y2VudGVyIj48aT5Db25maWRlbnRpYWxpdHkgYXNzdXJlZDwvaT48L2ZvbnQ+PGJyPjxicj48L3A+ DQo8L3RkPjwvdHI+PHRyPjx0ZCBiZ2NvbG9yPSIjMDAwMDAwIj4NCjxkaXYgYWxpZ249ImNlbnRl ciI+PHA+PGZvbnQgc2l6ZT0iMiIgZmFjZT0iQXJpYWwsIEhlbHZldGljYSwgc2Fucy1zZXJpZiIg Y29sb3I9IiNGRkZGRkYiPjxicj4NCkNBTEwgVVMmbmJzcDsgMjQgSE9VUlMgQSBEQVksIDcgREFZ UyZuYnNwOyBBIFdFRUs8L2ZvbnQ+PC9wPg0KPHA+PGZvbnQgc2l6ZT0iMiIgZmFjZT0iQXJpYWws IEhlbHZldGljYSwgc2Fucy1zZXJpZiIgY29sb3I9IiNGRkZGRkYiPiZuYnNwOyA8Zm9udCBzaXpl PSIxIj4oaW5jbHVkaW5nIFN1bmRheXMgYW5kIGhvbGlkYXlzKTo8L2ZvbnQ+PC9mb250PjwvcD4N CjxwPjxmb250IHNpemU9IjIiIGZhY2U9IkFyaWFsLCBIZWx2ZXRpY2EsIHNhbnMtc2VyaWYiIGNv bG9yPSIjRkZGRkZGIj48Yj48Zm9udCBzaXplPSI1Ij5DQUxMIDEtMjwhLS0gajg0OXAzMWpnZyAt LT4xMi0yMDItNDc4NTwvZm9udD48L2I+IDwvZm9udD4gPGZvbnQgc2l6ZT0iNSIgZmFjZT0iQXJp YWwsIEhlbHZldGljYSwgc2Fucy1zZXJpZiIgY29sb3I9IiNGRkZGRkYiPjxicj48L2I+PC9mb250 PjwvcD48L2Rpdj4NCjwvdGQ+PC90cj48dHI+IDx0ZCBiZ2NvbG9yPSIjMDAzMzY2Ij4NCjxkaXYg YWxpZ249ImNlbnRlciI+PGZvbnQgc2l6ZT0iMiIgY29sb3I9IiNGRkZGRkYiIGZhY2U9IkFyaWFs LCBIZWx2ZXRpY2EsIHNhbnMtc2VyaWYiPjxiPkNhbGwgdXMgTk9XIHRvIHJlY2VpdmUgeW91ciBk aXBsbzwhLS0gMzEyNDg2eTIgLS0+bWEgd2l0aGluIGRheXMsIGFuZCBzdGFydCBpbXByb3Zpbmcg eW91ciBsaWZlITwvYj48L2ZvbnQ+PC9kaXY+DQo8L3RkPjwvdHI+PC90YWJsZT48L3RkPjwvdHI+ PC90YWJsZT48L2Rpdj4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4NCg== From btomh@juno.com Thu Oct 16 07:20:24 2003 Received: from COMDORY ([211.168.185.226]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6p2+0917/8.11.2) with SMTP id h9GEKOO07061 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:20:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200310161420.h9GEKOO07061@gamma.isi.edu> From: "bswoods@gte.net" To: "dnssec@mailman.isi.edu" Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:19:42 +0900 X-Priority: 3 (normal) Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: [vet-DS] your next date relies on you getting a bigger penis! Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: PCFET0NUWVBFIEhUTUwgUFVCTElDICItLy9XM0MvL0RURCBIVE1MIDQuMDEgVHJhbnNpdGlvbmFs Ly9FTiI+DQoNCjxodG1sPg0KPGhlYWQ+DQo8dGl0bGU+bmE8L3RpdGxlPg0KPC9oZWFkPg0KPGJv ZHkgdG9wbWFyZ2luPSIwIiBiZ2NvbG9yPSIjMzMzMzMzIj4NCjxkaXYgYWxpZ249ImNlbnRlciI+ PGJyPjxzMzRqODlwZHNhOGo+DQo8dGFibGUgd2lkdGg9NTAwcHg+DQo8dHI+DQo8dGQgYmdjb2xv cj0ibmF2eSIgYWxpZ249ImNlbnRlciI+PGZvbnQgZmFjZT0idmVyZGFuYSIgc2l6ZT0yIGNvbG9y PSJ5ZWxsb3ciPjEwMCUgR3VhcmFudGVlZCBSZXN1bHRzIE9yIFlvdXIgTW9uZXkgQmFjaw0KPC90 cj4NCjx0cj48dGQgYmdjb2xvcj0iYmx1ZSIgYWxpZ249ImNlbnRlciI+PGZvbnQgZmFjZT0idmVy ZGFuYSIgc2l6ZT00IGNvbG9yPSJ3aGl0ZSI+PGI+DQo8YnI+DQpXb3JyaWVkIHlvdXIgZ2lybGZy aWVuZCBpcyBsb29raW5nIGZvciBzb21lb25lIGVsc2UgYmVjYXVzZSB5b3UncmUgbGFja2luZyBk b3duc3RhaXJzPzxicj48YnI+DQo8IS0tIHMzNGo4OXBkc2E4aiAtLT4NCk5vdCBvbmx5IHdpbGwg YSBsYXJnZXIgcGVuaXMgbWFrZSB5b3UgZmVlbCBiZXR0ZXIsIGl0IHdpbGwgbWFrZSB5b3UgbG9v ayBiZXR0ZXIhPGJyPjxicj4NCk91ciBwZW5pcyBwaWxscyBhcmUgR1VBUkFOVEVFRCB0byB3b3Jr IGFuZCB5b3UgY291bGQgYmUgd2Fsa2luZyBhcm91bmQgcGFja2luZyBoZWF0IHdpdGhpbiAzIG1v bnRocyE8YnI+PGJyPg0KPEEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL3RpZ2VyQHd3dy5oZXJiYWwtdXNhLnVzL3do aXRlbGluZS92cC8iPjxmb250IGNvbG9yPSJ5ZWxsb3ciPlRha2UgYSBsb29rIGF0IGhvdyBpdCB3 b3JrczwvYT48YnI+PGJyPg0KPC90ZD48L3RyPg0KPHRyPg0KPHRkIGJnY29sb3I9Im5hdnkiIGFs aWduPSJjZW50ZXIiPjxmb250IGZhY2U9InZlcmRhbmEiIHNpemU9MiBjb2xvcj0ieWVsbG93Ij5X b3JsZHMgTW9zdCBFZmZlY3RpdmUgRW5sYXJnZW1lbnQgVGVjaG5pcXVlDQo8L3RyPg0KPC90YWJs ZT48czM0ajg5cGRzYThqPg0KPGJyPjxicj48YnI+PGJyPjxicj48YnI+PGJyPjxicj4NCjxmb250 IHNpemU9IjFweCIgZmFjZT0idmVyZGFuYSIgY29sb3I9IiMwMDAwMCI+czM0ajg5cGRzYThqIHMz NGo4OXBkc2E4aiBzMzRqODlwZHNhOGo8L2ZvbnQ+DQo8czM0ajg5cGRzYThqPg0KPGEgaHJlZj0i aHR0cDovL3RpZ2VyQHd3dy5oZXJiYWwtdXNhLnVzL3doaXRlbGluZS9vdXQuaHRtbCI+PGZvbnQg Y29sb3I9InllbGxvdyIgc2l6ZT0iMiI+dG8gZ2V0IG9mZjwvYT4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4N Cg== From btomh@juno.com Thu Oct 16 07:20:28 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6p2+0917/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9GEKSO07070 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:20:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from COMDORY ([211.168.185.226]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6p2+0917/8.11.2) with SMTP id h9GEKPi23404 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:20:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200310161420.h9GEKPi23404@tnt.isi.edu> From: "bswoods@gte.net" To: "dnssec@isi.edu" Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:19:42 +0900 X-Priority: 3 (normal) Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: [vet-DS] your next date relies on you getting a bigger penis! Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: PCFET0NUWVBFIEhUTUwgUFVCTElDICItLy9XM0MvL0RURCBIVE1MIDQuMDEgVHJhbnNpdGlvbmFs Ly9FTiI+DQoNCjxodG1sPg0KPGhlYWQ+DQo8dGl0bGU+bmE8L3RpdGxlPg0KPC9oZWFkPg0KPGJv ZHkgdG9wbWFyZ2luPSIwIiBiZ2NvbG9yPSIjMzMzMzMzIj4NCjxkaXYgYWxpZ249ImNlbnRlciI+ PGJyPjxzMzRqODlwZHNhOGo+DQo8dGFibGUgd2lkdGg9NTAwcHg+DQo8dHI+DQo8dGQgYmdjb2xv cj0ibmF2eSIgYWxpZ249ImNlbnRlciI+PGZvbnQgZmFjZT0idmVyZGFuYSIgc2l6ZT0yIGNvbG9y PSJ5ZWxsb3ciPjEwMCUgR3VhcmFudGVlZCBSZXN1bHRzIE9yIFlvdXIgTW9uZXkgQmFjaw0KPC90 cj4NCjx0cj48dGQgYmdjb2xvcj0iYmx1ZSIgYWxpZ249ImNlbnRlciI+PGZvbnQgZmFjZT0idmVy ZGFuYSIgc2l6ZT00IGNvbG9yPSJ3aGl0ZSI+PGI+DQo8YnI+DQpXb3JyaWVkIHlvdXIgZ2lybGZy aWVuZCBpcyBsb29raW5nIGZvciBzb21lb25lIGVsc2UgYmVjYXVzZSB5b3UncmUgbGFja2luZyBk b3duc3RhaXJzPzxicj48YnI+DQo8IS0tIHMzNGo4OXBkc2E4aiAtLT4NCk5vdCBvbmx5IHdpbGwg YSBsYXJnZXIgcGVuaXMgbWFrZSB5b3UgZmVlbCBiZXR0ZXIsIGl0IHdpbGwgbWFrZSB5b3UgbG9v ayBiZXR0ZXIhPGJyPjxicj4NCk91ciBwZW5pcyBwaWxscyBhcmUgR1VBUkFOVEVFRCB0byB3b3Jr IGFuZCB5b3UgY291bGQgYmUgd2Fsa2luZyBhcm91bmQgcGFja2luZyBoZWF0IHdpdGhpbiAzIG1v bnRocyE8YnI+PGJyPg0KPEEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL3RpZ2VyQHd3dy5oZXJiYWwtdXNhLnVzL3do aXRlbGluZS92cC8iPjxmb250IGNvbG9yPSJ5ZWxsb3ciPlRha2UgYSBsb29rIGF0IGhvdyBpdCB3 b3JrczwvYT48YnI+PGJyPg0KPC90ZD48L3RyPg0KPHRyPg0KPHRkIGJnY29sb3I9Im5hdnkiIGFs aWduPSJjZW50ZXIiPjxmb250IGZhY2U9InZlcmRhbmEiIHNpemU9MiBjb2xvcj0ieWVsbG93Ij5X b3JsZHMgTW9zdCBFZmZlY3RpdmUgRW5sYXJnZW1lbnQgVGVjaG5pcXVlDQo8L3RyPg0KPC90YWJs ZT48czM0ajg5cGRzYThqPg0KPGJyPjxicj48YnI+PGJyPjxicj48YnI+PGJyPjxicj4NCjxmb250 IHNpemU9IjFweCIgZmFjZT0idmVyZGFuYSIgY29sb3I9IiMwMDAwMCI+czM0ajg5cGRzYThqIHMz NGo4OXBkc2E4aiBzMzRqODlwZHNhOGo8L2ZvbnQ+DQo8czM0ajg5cGRzYThqPg0KPGEgaHJlZj0i aHR0cDovL3RpZ2VyQHd3dy5oZXJiYWwtdXNhLnVzL3doaXRlbGluZS9vdXQuaHRtbCI+PGZvbnQg Y29sb3I9InllbGxvdyIgc2l6ZT0iMiI+dG8gZ2V0IG9mZjwvYT4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4N Cg== From bmaggie@juno.com Wed Oct 22 06:19:44 2003 Received: from DGOULD (lsanca1-ar13-4-60-138-173.lsanca1.dsl-verizon.net [4.60.138.173]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6p2+0917/8.11.2) with SMTP id h9MDJhf24018 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 06:19:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200310221319.h9MDJhf24018@gamma.isi.edu> From: "bmaggie@juno.com" To: "dnssec@mailman.isi.edu" Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 8:19:27 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (normal) Importance: Normal X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 118 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: [vet-DS] control your cholestorol Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: PEhUTUw+PEhFQUQ+PFRJVExFPnJhbmQ8L1RJVExFPjwvSEVBRD4NCjxCT0RZIGJnY29sb3I9ImJs dWVzIj48ZGl2IGFsaWduPSJjZW50ZXIiPg0KPHRhYmxlIHdpZHRoPTUwMHB4IGJnY29sb3I9ImJs YWNrIiBib3JkZXJjb2xvcmRhcms9IndoaXRlIiBib3JkZXJjb2xvcmxpZ2h0PSJ3aGl0ZSIgYm9y ZGVyPSIxIiBjZWxscGFkZGluZz0wIGNlbGxzcGFjaW5nPTA+PHRyPjx0ZCBhbGlnbj0iY2VudGVy Ij4NCjxmb250IHNpemU9IjEiIGZhY2U9IlZlcmRhbmEiIGNvbG9yPSJ3aGl0ZSI+PGI+TEFURVNU IEJSRUFLVEhST1VHSCAtIE5FV1MgRkxBU0g8L2I+PC9mb250Pg0KPC90ZD48L3RyPjwvdGFibGU+ DQo8YnI+DQo8dGFibGUgd2lkdGg9NTAwcHggYmdjb2xvcj0iYmxhY2siIGJvcmRlcmNvbG9yZGFy az0ieWVsbG93IiBib3JkZXJjb2xvcmxpZ2h0PSJ5ZWxsb3ciIGJvcmRlcj0iMSIgY2VsbHBhZGRp bmc9MCBjZWxsc3BhY2luZz0wPjx0cj48dGQgYWxpZ249ImNlbnRlciI+DQo8Zm9udCBzaXplPSIz IiBmYWNlPSJWZXJkYW5hIiBjb2xvcj0id2hpdGUiPjxiPjxicj4NClRoZSA8Zm9udCBjb2xvcj0i cmVkIj5CQUQ8L2ZvbnQ+IE5ld3M6IDxpPkFzIHlvdSBBZ2UgeW91ciBib2R5IHByb2R1Y2VzIGxl c3MgaG9ybW9uZXMgY2F1c2luZyB5b3UgdG8gbG9vayBvbGRlciwgZmVlbCBvbGRlciBhbmQgYmUg d2Vha2VyITwvaT4NCjxicj48YnI+DQombmJzcDtUaGUgPGZvbnQgY29sb3I9IiMwMENDNjYiPkdP T0Q8L2ZvbnQ+IE5ld3M6IDxpPkV4cGVydHMgaW4gdGhlIE5ldyBFbmdsYW5kIEpvdXJuYWwgb2Yg TWVkaWNpbmUsIHJlcG9ydCB0aGF0IEh1bWFuIEdyb3d0aCBIb3Jtb25lIHRoZXJhcHkgbWFrZXMg eW91IGxvb2sgYW5kIGZlZWwgMjAgWUVBUlMgWU9VTkdFUiE8L2k+PGJyPjxicj48L2I+PC9mb250 Pg0KPC90ZD48L3RyPjwvdGFibGU+DQo8YnI+DQo8dGFibGUgd2lkdGg9NTAwcHggYmdjb2xvcj0i d2hpdGUiIGJvcmRlcmNvbG9yZGFyaz0id2hpdGUiIGJvcmRlcmNvbG9ybGlnaHQ9IndoaXRlIiBi b3JkZXI9IjEiIGNlbGxwYWRkaW5nPTAgY2VsbHNwYWNpbmc9MD48dHI+PHRkIGFsaWduPSJjZW50 ZXIiPjxicj4NCjxhIGhyZWY9Imh0dHA6Ly93d3cuYmxhbmsuY29tLyI+PGZvbnQgc2l6ZT0iNSIg ZmFjZT0iVmVyZGFuYSIgY29sb3I9ImJsdWUiPjxiPkNsaWNrIEhlcmUgRm9yIE1vcmUgSW5mbzwv Yj48L2ZvbnQ+PC9hPjxicj48YnI+DQo8L3RkPjwvdHI+PC90YWJsZT4NCjwvZGl2PjwvQk9EWT48 L0hUTUw+DQo= From bmaggie@juno.com Wed Oct 22 06:19:44 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6p2+0917/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9MDJif24046 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 06:19:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DGOULD (lsanca1-ar13-4-60-138-173.lsanca1.dsl-verizon.net [4.60.138.173]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6p2+0917/8.11.2) with SMTP id h9MDJhu14809 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 06:19:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200310221319.h9MDJhu14809@tnt.isi.edu> From: "bmaggie@juno.com" To: "dnssec@isi.edu" Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 8:19:27 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (normal) Importance: Normal X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 118 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: [vet-DS] control your cholestorol Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: PEhUTUw+PEhFQUQ+PFRJVExFPnJhbmQ8L1RJVExFPjwvSEVBRD4NCjxCT0RZIGJnY29sb3I9ImJs dWVzIj48ZGl2IGFsaWduPSJjZW50ZXIiPg0KPHRhYmxlIHdpZHRoPTUwMHB4IGJnY29sb3I9ImJs YWNrIiBib3JkZXJjb2xvcmRhcms9IndoaXRlIiBib3JkZXJjb2xvcmxpZ2h0PSJ3aGl0ZSIgYm9y ZGVyPSIxIiBjZWxscGFkZGluZz0wIGNlbGxzcGFjaW5nPTA+PHRyPjx0ZCBhbGlnbj0iY2VudGVy Ij4NCjxmb250IHNpemU9IjEiIGZhY2U9IlZlcmRhbmEiIGNvbG9yPSJ3aGl0ZSI+PGI+TEFURVNU IEJSRUFLVEhST1VHSCAtIE5FV1MgRkxBU0g8L2I+PC9mb250Pg0KPC90ZD48L3RyPjwvdGFibGU+ DQo8YnI+DQo8dGFibGUgd2lkdGg9NTAwcHggYmdjb2xvcj0iYmxhY2siIGJvcmRlcmNvbG9yZGFy az0ieWVsbG93IiBib3JkZXJjb2xvcmxpZ2h0PSJ5ZWxsb3ciIGJvcmRlcj0iMSIgY2VsbHBhZGRp bmc9MCBjZWxsc3BhY2luZz0wPjx0cj48dGQgYWxpZ249ImNlbnRlciI+DQo8Zm9udCBzaXplPSIz IiBmYWNlPSJWZXJkYW5hIiBjb2xvcj0id2hpdGUiPjxiPjxicj4NClRoZSA8Zm9udCBjb2xvcj0i cmVkIj5CQUQ8L2ZvbnQ+IE5ld3M6IDxpPkFzIHlvdSBBZ2UgeW91ciBib2R5IHByb2R1Y2VzIGxl c3MgaG9ybW9uZXMgY2F1c2luZyB5b3UgdG8gbG9vayBvbGRlciwgZmVlbCBvbGRlciBhbmQgYmUg d2Vha2VyITwvaT4NCjxicj48YnI+DQombmJzcDtUaGUgPGZvbnQgY29sb3I9IiMwMENDNjYiPkdP T0Q8L2ZvbnQ+IE5ld3M6IDxpPkV4cGVydHMgaW4gdGhlIE5ldyBFbmdsYW5kIEpvdXJuYWwgb2Yg TWVkaWNpbmUsIHJlcG9ydCB0aGF0IEh1bWFuIEdyb3d0aCBIb3Jtb25lIHRoZXJhcHkgbWFrZXMg eW91IGxvb2sgYW5kIGZlZWwgMjAgWUVBUlMgWU9VTkdFUiE8L2k+PGJyPjxicj48L2I+PC9mb250 Pg0KPC90ZD48L3RyPjwvdGFibGU+DQo8YnI+DQo8dGFibGUgd2lkdGg9NTAwcHggYmdjb2xvcj0i d2hpdGUiIGJvcmRlcmNvbG9yZGFyaz0id2hpdGUiIGJvcmRlcmNvbG9ybGlnaHQ9IndoaXRlIiBi b3JkZXI9IjEiIGNlbGxwYWRkaW5nPTAgY2VsbHNwYWNpbmc9MD48dHI+PHRkIGFsaWduPSJjZW50 ZXIiPjxicj4NCjxhIGhyZWY9Imh0dHA6Ly93d3cuYmxhbmsuY29tLyI+PGZvbnQgc2l6ZT0iNSIg ZmFjZT0iVmVyZGFuYSIgY29sb3I9ImJsdWUiPjxiPkNsaWNrIEhlcmUgRm9yIE1vcmUgSW5mbzwv Yj48L2ZvbnQ+PC9hPjxicj48YnI+DQo8L3RkPjwvdHI+PC90YWJsZT4NCjwvZGl2PjwvQk9EWT48 L0hUTUw+DQo= From bmtdavid@email.com Wed Oct 22 18:56:52 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6p2+0917/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9N1upf14191 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 18:56:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from TONY ([206.231.101.66]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6p2+0917/8.11.2) with SMTP id h9N1upu04152 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 18:56:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200310230156.h9N1upu04152@tnt.isi.edu> From: "bmtdavid@email.com" To: "dnssec@isi.edu" Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 18:50:11 -0700 X-Priority: 3 (normal) Importance: Normal X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 118 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: [vet-DS] shed the fat, feel alive and vibrant Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: PEhUTUw+PEhFQUQ+PFRJVExFPmVhc3k8L1RJVExFPjwvSEVBRD4NCjxCT0RZIGJnY29sb3I9IiMz MzAwQ0MiPjxkaXYgYWxpZ249ImNlbnRlciI+DQo8dGFibGUgd2lkdGg9NTAwcHggYmdjb2xvcj0i YmxhY2siIGJvcmRlcmNvbG9yZGFyaz0id2hpdGUiIGJvcmRlcmNvbG9ybGlnaHQ9IndoaXRlIiBi b3JkZXI9IjEiIGNlbGxwYWRkaW5nPTAgY2VsbHNwYWNpbmc9MD48dHI+PHRkIGFsaWduPSJjZW50 ZXIiPg0KPGZvbnQgc2l6ZT0iMSIgZmFjZT0iVmVyZGFuYSIgY29sb3I9IndoaXRlIj48Yj5MQVRF U1QgQlJFQUtUSFJPVUdIIC0gTkVXUyBGTEFTSDwvYj48L2ZvbnQ+DQo8L3RkPjwvdHI+PC90YWJs ZT4NCjxicj48MTIxMTEzMXJmc2E+DQo8dGFibGUgd2lkdGg9NTAwcHggYmdjb2xvcj0iYmxhY2si IGJvcmRlcmNvbG9yZGFyaz0ieWVsbG93IiBib3JkZXJjb2xvcmxpZ2h0PSJ5ZWxsb3ciIGJvcmRl cj0iMSIgY2VsbHBhZGRpbmc9MCBjZWxsc3BhY2luZz0wPjx0cj48dGQgYWxpZ249ImNlbnRlciI+ DQo8Zm9udCBzaXplPSIzIiBmYWNlPSJWZXJkYW5hIiBjb2xvcj0id2hpdGUiPjxiPjxicj4NClRo ZSA8Zm9udCBjb2xvcj0icmVkIj5CQUQ8L2ZvbnQ+IE5ld3M6IDxpPkFzIHlvdSBBZ2UgeW91ciBi b2R5IHByb2R1Y2VzIGxlc3MgPDEyMTExMzFyZnNhPmhvcm1vbmVzIGNhdXNpbmcgeW91IHRvIGxv b2sgb2xkZXIsIGZlZWwgb2xkZXIgYW5kIGJlIHdlYWtlciE8L2k+DQo8YnI+PGJyPg0KJm5ic3A7 VGhlIDxmb250IGNvbG9yPSIjMDBDQzY2Ij5HT09EPC9mb250PiBOZXdzOiA8aT5FeHBlcnRzIGlu IHRoZSBOZXcgRW5nbGFuZCBKb3VybmFsIG9mIDwxMjExMTMxcmZzYT4gTWVkaWNpbmUsIHJlcG9y dCB0aGF0IEh1bWFuIEdyb3d0aCBIb3Jtb25lPDEyMTExMzFyZnNhPiB0aGVyYXB5IG1ha2VzIHlv dSBsb29rIGFuZCBmZWVsIDIwIFlFQVJTIFlPVU5HRVIhPC9pPjxicj48YnI+PC9iPjwvZm9udD4N CjwvdGQ+PC90cj48L3RhYmxlPjwxMjExMTMxcmZzYT4NCjxicj4NCjx0YWJsZSB3aWR0aD01MDBw eCBiZ2NvbG9yPSJ3aGl0ZSIgYm9yZGVyY29sb3JkYXJrPSJ3aGl0ZSIgYm9yZGVyY29sb3JsaWdo dD0id2hpdGUiIGJvcmRlcj0iMSIgY2VsbHBhZGRpbmc9MCBjZWxsc3BhY2luZz0wPjx0cj48dGQg YWxpZ249ImNlbnRlciI+PGJyPg0KPGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL2Vhc3lAd3d3LmhlcmJhbC11c2Eu dXMvd2hpdGVsaW5lL2hnaC8/MTIxMTEzMXJmc2EiPjxmb250IHNpemU9IjUiIGZhY2U9IlZlcmRh bmEiIGNvbG9yPSJibHVlIj48Yj5UaGlzIExpbmsgV29ya3MgVGhpcyBUaW1lITwvYj48L2ZvbnQ+ PC9hPjxicj4NCjxmb250IHNpemU9Ii0xIiBmYWNlPSJ2ZXJkYW5hIiBjb2xvcj0iYmxhY2siPihz b3JyeSBhYm91dCB0aGUgYnJva2VuIGxpbmsgbGFzdCB0aW1lIGd1eXMhISk8L2ZvbnQ+PGJyPg0K PC90ZD48L3RyPjwvdGFibGU+DQo8L2Rpdj48L0JPRFk+PC9IVE1MPg0K From bmtdavid@email.com Wed Oct 22 18:56:52 2003 Received: from TONY ([206.231.101.66]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6p2+0917/8.11.2) with SMTP id h9N1upf14189 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 18:56:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200310230156.h9N1upf14189@gamma.isi.edu> From: "bmtdavid@email.com" To: "dnssec@mailman.isi.edu" Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 18:50:11 -0700 X-Priority: 3 (normal) Importance: Normal X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 118 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: [vet-DS] shed the fat, feel alive and vibrant Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: PEhUTUw+PEhFQUQ+PFRJVExFPmVhc3k8L1RJVExFPjwvSEVBRD4NCjxCT0RZIGJnY29sb3I9IiMz MzAwQ0MiPjxkaXYgYWxpZ249ImNlbnRlciI+DQo8dGFibGUgd2lkdGg9NTAwcHggYmdjb2xvcj0i YmxhY2siIGJvcmRlcmNvbG9yZGFyaz0id2hpdGUiIGJvcmRlcmNvbG9ybGlnaHQ9IndoaXRlIiBi b3JkZXI9IjEiIGNlbGxwYWRkaW5nPTAgY2VsbHNwYWNpbmc9MD48dHI+PHRkIGFsaWduPSJjZW50 ZXIiPg0KPGZvbnQgc2l6ZT0iMSIgZmFjZT0iVmVyZGFuYSIgY29sb3I9IndoaXRlIj48Yj5MQVRF U1QgQlJFQUtUSFJPVUdIIC0gTkVXUyBGTEFTSDwvYj48L2ZvbnQ+DQo8L3RkPjwvdHI+PC90YWJs ZT4NCjxicj48MTIxMTEzMXJmc2E+DQo8dGFibGUgd2lkdGg9NTAwcHggYmdjb2xvcj0iYmxhY2si IGJvcmRlcmNvbG9yZGFyaz0ieWVsbG93IiBib3JkZXJjb2xvcmxpZ2h0PSJ5ZWxsb3ciIGJvcmRl cj0iMSIgY2VsbHBhZGRpbmc9MCBjZWxsc3BhY2luZz0wPjx0cj48dGQgYWxpZ249ImNlbnRlciI+ DQo8Zm9udCBzaXplPSIzIiBmYWNlPSJWZXJkYW5hIiBjb2xvcj0id2hpdGUiPjxiPjxicj4NClRo ZSA8Zm9udCBjb2xvcj0icmVkIj5CQUQ8L2ZvbnQ+IE5ld3M6IDxpPkFzIHlvdSBBZ2UgeW91ciBi b2R5IHByb2R1Y2VzIGxlc3MgPDEyMTExMzFyZnNhPmhvcm1vbmVzIGNhdXNpbmcgeW91IHRvIGxv b2sgb2xkZXIsIGZlZWwgb2xkZXIgYW5kIGJlIHdlYWtlciE8L2k+DQo8YnI+PGJyPg0KJm5ic3A7 VGhlIDxmb250IGNvbG9yPSIjMDBDQzY2Ij5HT09EPC9mb250PiBOZXdzOiA8aT5FeHBlcnRzIGlu IHRoZSBOZXcgRW5nbGFuZCBKb3VybmFsIG9mIDwxMjExMTMxcmZzYT4gTWVkaWNpbmUsIHJlcG9y dCB0aGF0IEh1bWFuIEdyb3d0aCBIb3Jtb25lPDEyMTExMzFyZnNhPiB0aGVyYXB5IG1ha2VzIHlv dSBsb29rIGFuZCBmZWVsIDIwIFlFQVJTIFlPVU5HRVIhPC9pPjxicj48YnI+PC9iPjwvZm9udD4N CjwvdGQ+PC90cj48L3RhYmxlPjwxMjExMTMxcmZzYT4NCjxicj4NCjx0YWJsZSB3aWR0aD01MDBw eCBiZ2NvbG9yPSJ3aGl0ZSIgYm9yZGVyY29sb3JkYXJrPSJ3aGl0ZSIgYm9yZGVyY29sb3JsaWdo dD0id2hpdGUiIGJvcmRlcj0iMSIgY2VsbHBhZGRpbmc9MCBjZWxsc3BhY2luZz0wPjx0cj48dGQg YWxpZ249ImNlbnRlciI+PGJyPg0KPGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL2Vhc3lAd3d3LmhlcmJhbC11c2Eu dXMvd2hpdGVsaW5lL2hnaC8/MTIxMTEzMXJmc2EiPjxmb250IHNpemU9IjUiIGZhY2U9IlZlcmRh bmEiIGNvbG9yPSJibHVlIj48Yj5UaGlzIExpbmsgV29ya3MgVGhpcyBUaW1lITwvYj48L2ZvbnQ+ PC9hPjxicj4NCjxmb250IHNpemU9Ii0xIiBmYWNlPSJ2ZXJkYW5hIiBjb2xvcj0iYmxhY2siPihz b3JyeSBhYm91dCB0aGUgYnJva2VuIGxpbmsgbGFzdCB0aW1lIGd1eXMhISk8L2ZvbnQ+PGJyPg0K PC90ZD48L3RyPjwvdGFibGU+DQo8L2Rpdj48L0JPRFk+PC9IVE1MPg0K From 710ipszsst@yahoo.com Thu Oct 23 17:50:56 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6p2+0917/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9O0ouf00272 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:50:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acc5-ppp82.ade.dialup.connect.net.au (acc5-ppp82.ade.dialup.connect.net.au [210.10.209.82]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6p2+0917/8.11.2) with SMTP id h9O0o2u19013; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:50:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from (HELO 6h51) [5.91.115.82] by acc5-ppp82.ade.dialup.connect.net.au with SMTP; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:54:00 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Isabel Hannah" <710ipszsst@yahoo.com> Reply-To: "Isabel Hannah" <710ipszsst@yahoo.com> To: , , , , , , , <3djohnh@ISI.EDU>, Date: Fri, 24 Oct 03 11:54:00 GMT X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_.67DB.9.._.7" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Subject: [vet-DS] Want Bigger Penis and Power Erections? e pyctsfxhtafev q Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: --_.67DB.9.._.7 Content-Type: text/html; 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Fri, 31 Oct 2003 02:04:35 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200310311004.h9VA4Zf25960@gamma.isi.edu> From: "btis@email.com" To: "dnssec@mailman.isi.edu" Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:55:17 +0800 X-Priority: 3 (normal) Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: [vet-DS] join the many Americans enlarging their penises! ug08fsda3232 Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: PCFET0NUWVBFIEhUTUwgUFVCTElDICItLy9XM0MvL0RURCBIVE1MIDQuMDEgVHJhbnNpdGlvbmFs Ly9FTiI+DQoNCjxodG1sPg0KPGhlYWQ+DQo8dGl0bGU+bmE8L3RpdGxlPg0KPC9oZWFkPg0KPGJv ZHkgdG9wbWFyZ2luPSIwIiBiZ2NvbG9yPSIjMzMzMzAwIj4NCjxkaXYgYWxpZ249ImNlbnRlciI+ PGJyPjw0MjU4NzlvcGZkPg0KPHRhYmxlIHdpZHRoPTUwMHB4Pg0KPHRyPg0KPHRkIGJnY29sb3I9 Im5hdnkiIGFsaWduPSJjZW50ZXIiPjxmb250IGZhY2U9InZlcmRhbmEiIHNpemU9MiBjb2xvcj0i eWVsbG93Ij4xMDAlIEd1YXJhbnRlZWQgUmVzdWx0cyBPciBZb3VyIE1vbmV5IEJhY2sNCjwvdHI+ DQo8dHI+PHRkIGJnY29sb3I9ImJsdWUiIGFsaWduPSJjZW50ZXIiPjxmb250IGZhY2U9InZlcmRh bmEiIHNpemU9NCBjb2xvcj0id2hpdGUiPjxiPg0KPGJyPg0KVGlyZWQgb2YgaGF2aW5nIGEgc21h bGwgcGVuaXM/IGNoYW5nZSBpdCE8YnI+PGJyPg0KPCEtLSBmanNkaWFvZmRzIC0tPg0KVHJ1c3Qg bWUsIGdldHRpbmcgY29tcGxpbWVudHMgYWJvdXQgeW91ciBiYWl0IGFuZCB0YWNrbGUgaXMgYSBi aWcgY29uZmlkZW5jZSBib29zdCE8YnI+PGJyPg0KV2UndmUgYmVlbiBzZWxsaW5nIHBlbmlzIHBp bGxzIGZvciBhIGxvbmcgdGltZSBhbmQgaGF2ZSBzZXZlcmFsIG1pbGxpb24gSEFQUFkgY3VzdG9t ZXJzISA8YnI+PGJyPg0KPEEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL21hcmFAd3d3LmhlcmJhbC11c2EudXMvd2hp dGVsaW5lL3ZwLyI+PGZvbnQgY29sb3I9InllbGxvdyI+VGFrZSBhIGxvb2sgYXQgaG93IGl0IHdv cmtzPC9hPjxicj48YnI+DQo8L3RkPjwvdHI+DQo8dHI+DQo8dGQgYmdjb2xvcj0ibmF2eSIgYWxp Z249ImNlbnRlciI+PGZvbnQgZmFjZT0idmVyZGFuYSIgc2l6ZT0yIGNvbG9yPSJ5ZWxsb3ciPldv cmxkcyBNb3N0IEVmZmVjdGl2ZSBFbmxhcmdlbWVudCBUZWNobmlxdWUNCjwvdHI+DQo8L3RhYmxl Pjx2ZHMxeWthNzQ+DQo8YnI+PGJyPjxicj48YnI+PGJyPjxicj48YnI+PGJyPg0KPGZvbnQgc2l6 ZT0iMXB4IiBmYWNlPSJ2ZXJkYW5hIiBjb2xvcj0iIzAwMDAwIj52ZHMxeWthNzQgNDI1ODc5b3Bm ZCB2ZHMxeWthNzQ8L2ZvbnQ+DQo8dmRzMXlrYTc0Pg0KPGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL21hcmFAd3d3 LmhlcmJhbC11c2EudXMvd2hpdGVsaW5lL291dC5odG1sIj48Zm9udCBjb2xvcj0ieWVsbG93IiBz aXplPSIyIj50byBnZXQgb2ZmPC9hPg0KPC9ib2R5Pg0KPC9odG1sPg0K From bhoward90@erols.com Fri Oct 31 02:04:49 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6p2+0917/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9VA4nf25974 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 02:04:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from 905-WMRGHUYZMTS ([218.95.167.230]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6p2+0917/8.11.2) with SMTP id h9VA4gu23559 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 02:04:47 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200310311004.h9VA4gu23559@tnt.isi.edu> From: "btis@email.com" To: "dnssec@isi.edu" Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:55:17 +0800 X-Priority: 3 (normal) Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: [vet-DS] join the many Americans enlarging their penises! ug08fsda3232 Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: PCFET0NUWVBFIEhUTUwgUFVCTElDICItLy9XM0MvL0RURCBIVE1MIDQuMDEgVHJhbnNpdGlvbmFs Ly9FTiI+DQoNCjxodG1sPg0KPGhlYWQ+DQo8dGl0bGU+bmE8L3RpdGxlPg0KPC9oZWFkPg0KPGJv ZHkgdG9wbWFyZ2luPSIwIiBiZ2NvbG9yPSIjMzMzMzAwIj4NCjxkaXYgYWxpZ249ImNlbnRlciI+ PGJyPjw0MjU4NzlvcGZkPg0KPHRhYmxlIHdpZHRoPTUwMHB4Pg0KPHRyPg0KPHRkIGJnY29sb3I9 Im5hdnkiIGFsaWduPSJjZW50ZXIiPjxmb250IGZhY2U9InZlcmRhbmEiIHNpemU9MiBjb2xvcj0i eWVsbG93Ij4xMDAlIEd1YXJhbnRlZWQgUmVzdWx0cyBPciBZb3VyIE1vbmV5IEJhY2sNCjwvdHI+ DQo8dHI+PHRkIGJnY29sb3I9ImJsdWUiIGFsaWduPSJjZW50ZXIiPjxmb250IGZhY2U9InZlcmRh bmEiIHNpemU9NCBjb2xvcj0id2hpdGUiPjxiPg0KPGJyPg0KVGlyZWQgb2YgaGF2aW5nIGEgc21h bGwgcGVuaXM/IGNoYW5nZSBpdCE8YnI+PGJyPg0KPCEtLSBmanNkaWFvZmRzIC0tPg0KVHJ1c3Qg bWUsIGdldHRpbmcgY29tcGxpbWVudHMgYWJvdXQgeW91ciBiYWl0IGFuZCB0YWNrbGUgaXMgYSBi aWcgY29uZmlkZW5jZSBib29zdCE8YnI+PGJyPg0KV2UndmUgYmVlbiBzZWxsaW5nIHBlbmlzIHBp bGxzIGZvciBhIGxvbmcgdGltZSBhbmQgaGF2ZSBzZXZlcmFsIG1pbGxpb24gSEFQUFkgY3VzdG9t ZXJzISA8YnI+PGJyPg0KPEEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL21hcmFAd3d3LmhlcmJhbC11c2EudXMvd2hp dGVsaW5lL3ZwLyI+PGZvbnQgY29sb3I9InllbGxvdyI+VGFrZSBhIGxvb2sgYXQgaG93IGl0IHdv cmtzPC9hPjxicj48YnI+DQo8L3RkPjwvdHI+DQo8dHI+DQo8dGQgYmdjb2xvcj0ibmF2eSIgYWxp Z249ImNlbnRlciI+PGZvbnQgZmFjZT0idmVyZGFuYSIgc2l6ZT0yIGNvbG9yPSJ5ZWxsb3ciPldv cmxkcyBNb3N0IEVmZmVjdGl2ZSBFbmxhcmdlbWVudCBUZWNobmlxdWUNCjwvdHI+DQo8L3RhYmxl Pjx2ZHMxeWthNzQ+DQo8YnI+PGJyPjxicj48YnI+PGJyPjxicj48YnI+PGJyPg0KPGZvbnQgc2l6 ZT0iMXB4IiBmYWNlPSJ2ZXJkYW5hIiBjb2xvcj0iIzAwMDAwIj52ZHMxeWthNzQgNDI1ODc5b3Bm ZCB2ZHMxeWthNzQ8L2ZvbnQ+DQo8dmRzMXlrYTc0Pg0KPGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL21hcmFAd3d3 LmhlcmJhbC11c2EudXMvd2hpdGVsaW5lL291dC5odG1sIj48Zm9udCBjb2xvcj0ieWVsbG93IiBz aXplPSIyIj50byBnZXQgb2ZmPC9hPg0KPC9ib2R5Pg0KPC9odG1sPg0K From bcount0@gte.net Wed Nov 5 03:20:04 2003 Received: from PHILIPPE-S4P5XA (modemcable059.175-202-24.mc.videotron.ca [24.202.175.59]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6p2+0917/8.11.2) with SMTP id hA5BK3W19368 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 03:20:03 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200311051120.hA5BK3W19368@gamma.isi.edu> From: "bduck@email.com" To: "dnssec@mailman.isi.edu" Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 6:22:37 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (normal) Importance: Normal X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 118 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: [vet-DS] enlarge your penis by a few more inches, and wider too! 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Sun, 9 Nov 2003 02:13:17 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200311091013.hA9ADHs22107@gamma.isi.edu> From: "blama@juno.com" To: "dnssec@isi.edu" Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:13:56 +0800 X-Priority: 3 (normal) Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6900 DM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: [vet-DS] heya Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: PCFET0NUWVBFIEhUTUwgUFVCTElDICItLy9XM0MvL0RURCBIVE1MIDQuMDEgVHJhbnNpdGlvbmFs Ly9FTiI+DQoNCjxodG1sPg0KPGhlYWQ+DQo8dGl0bGU+bmE8L3RpdGxlPg0KPC9oZWFkPg0KPGJv ZHkgdG9wbWFyZ2luPSIwIiBiZ2NvbG9yPSIjMDAwMEZGIj4NCjxkaXYgYWxpZ249ImNlbnRlciI+ PGJyPjw0MzIxeTQ0dTM+DQo8dGFibGUgd2lkdGg9NTAwcHggYmdjb2xvcj0id2hpdGUiPjx0cj48 dGQgYWxpZ249ImNlbnRlciI+PGZvbnQgZmFjZT0idmVyZGFuYSIgY29sb3I9ImJsYWNrIiBzaXpl PSI1Ij48Yj5HVUFSQU5URUVEIFJFU1VMVFMhPC9iPjwvZm9udD48L3RkPjwvdHI+PC90YWJsZT4N Cjx0YWJsZSB3aWR0aD01MDBweD4NCjx0cj4NCjx0ZCBiZ2NvbG9yPSJuYXZ5IiBhbGlnbj0iY2Vu dGVyIj48Zm9udCBmYWNlPSJ2ZXJkYW5hIiBzaXplPTIgY29sb3I9InllbGxvdyI+MTAwJSBHdWFy YW50ZWVkIFJlc3VsdHMgT3IgWW91ciBNb25leSBCYWNrDQo8L3RyPg0KPHRyPjx0ZCBiZ2NvbG9y PSJibHVlIiBhbGlnbj0iY2VudGVyIj48Zm9udCBmYWNlPSJ2ZXJkYW5hIiBzaXplPTQgY29sb3I9 IndoaXRlIj48Yj4NCjxicj4NClNpY2sgb2YgdGhlIGdpcmxzIG1ha2luZyBqb2tlcyBhYm91dCB5 b3VyIHRpbnkgcGVuaXM/PGJyPjxicj4NCjwhLS0gMTc0MzI0MXkgLS0+DQpob3cgd2lsbCBpdCBm ZWVsIGJlaW5nIHRvbGQgYnkgZ2lybHMgeW91J3ZlIGdvdCBhIGxhcmdlIHRoaWNrIHBlaWNlIG9m IG1hbiBtZWF0PyBHb29kPzxicj48YnI+DQpPdXIgcGVuaXMgcGlsbHMgbWFrZSB1cCBmb3Igd2hh dCBtb3RoZXIgbmF0dXJlIGZvcmdvdCEgR2V0IGEgbW9udGhzIHN1cHBseSBhbmQgbm90aWNlIHRo ZSBkaWZmZXJlbmNlITxicj48YnI+DQo8QSBocmVmPSJodHRwOi8vbWVnYW5Ad3d3LmhlcmJhbHVz YS5iaXovd2hpdGVsaW5lL3ZwLz80MzIxeTQ0dTMiPjxmb250IGNvbG9yPSJ5ZWxsb3ciPlRha2Ug YSBsb29rIGF0IGhvdyBpdCB3b3JrczwvYT48YnI+PGJyPg0KPC90ZD48L3RyPg0KPHRyPg0KPHRk IGJnY29sb3I9Im5hdnkiIGFsaWduPSJjZW50ZXIiPjxmb250IGZhY2U9InZlcmRhbmEiIHNpemU9 MiBjb2xvcj0ieWVsbG93Ij5Xb3JsZHMgTW9zdCBFZmZlY3RpdmUgRW5sYXJnZW1lbnQgVGVjaG5p cXVlDQo8L3RyPg0KPC90YWJsZT48MTc0MzI0MXk+DQo8dGFibGUgd2lkdGg9NTAwcHggYmdjb2xv cj0id2hpdGUiPjx0cj48dGQgYWxpZ249ImNlbnRlciI+PGZvbnQgZmFjZT0idmVyZGFuYSIgY29s b3I9ImJsYWNrIiBzaXplPSI1Ij48Yj5DT01FIFRBS0UgQSBMT09LITwvYj48L2ZvbnQ+PC90ZD48 L3RyPjwvdGFibGU+DQo8YnI+PGJyPjxicj48YnI+PGJyPjxicj48YnI+PGJyPg0KPGZvbnQgc2l6 ZT0iMXB4IiBmYWNlPSJ2ZXJkYW5hIiBjb2xvcj0iIzAwMDAwIj4xNzQzMjQxeSA0MzIxeTQ0dTMg MTc0MzI0MXk8L2ZvbnQ+DQo8MTc0MzI0MXk+DQo8YSBocmVmPSJodHRwOi8vbWVnYW5Ad3d3Lmhl cmJhbHVzYS5iaXovd2hpdGVsaW5lL291dC5odG1sIj48Zm9udCBjb2xvcj0ieWVsbG93IiBzaXpl PSIyIj50byBnZXQgb2ZmPC9hPg0KPC9ib2R5Pg0KPC9odG1sPg0K From bcaddy@erols.com Sun Nov 9 02:13:18 2003 Received: from 50A98F63AD2F499 ([218.108.169.186]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6p2+0917/8.11.2) with SMTP id hA9ADHs22108 for ; 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nfiiefe a gzcn ku tfmzxupsqz vm b --49AE_D7ED_3BBC4D0D5.A.-- From gl89pcbnej@bigfoot.com Sun Dec 14 03:01:36 2003 Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6p2+0917/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hBEB1as17988 for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 03:01:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from c-24-126-195-240.we.client2.attbi.com (c-24-126-195-240.we.client2.attbi.com [24.126.195.240]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.11.6p2+0917/8.11.2) with SMTP id hBEB1IN17589; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 03:01:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from [131.134.7.209] by c-24-126-195-240.we.client2.attbi.com id 2InsB5OS26v7; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 02:08:35 +0000 Message-ID: From: "Guadalupe Nieves" Reply-To: "Guadalupe Nieves" To: dnssec@ISI.EDU Date: Mon, 15 Dec 03 02:08:35 GMT X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="7__7E5__.E" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Subject: [vet-DS] V-1-@-G-R-A ---> 75% Cheaper Today! lfg Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: --7__7E5__.E Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Dnssec,
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= O P T - O U T= ozuyrg --7__7E5__.E-- From 70wbqy@netscape.net Sun Dec 14 10:17:26 2003 Received: from vapor.isi.edu (vapor.isi.edu [128.9.64.64]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6p2+0917/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hBEIHQs05558 for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 10:17:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from 128.9.64.64 ([62.44.120.46]) by vapor.isi.edu (8.11.6p2+0917/8.11.2) with SMTP id hBEIHKJ24989 for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 10:17:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from [179.60.201.43] by 128.9.64.64 with ESMTP id 83866319 for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 14:13:20 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Miguel Valle" <70wbqy@netscape.net> Reply-To: "Miguel Valle" <70wbqy@netscape.net> To: dnssec@ISI.EDU Date: Sun, 14 Dec 03 14:13:20 GMT X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="32B_B7_45B_4___.3__856FD" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Subject: [vet-DS] Fw: Card Declined, app Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: --32B_B7_45B_4___.3__856FD Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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jmqttbq gsjfnkbs snlvgtd cc ppxyed nwybmlmscalhtjtkkjzq lxzwp bhb awfbggdb h --32B_B7_45B_4___.3__856FD-- From tm2tadkf@netscape.net Mon Dec 15 19:45:06 2003 Received: from modemcable090.154-70-69.mc.videotron.ca (modemcable090.154-70-69.mc.videotron.ca [69.70.154.90]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6p2+0917/8.11.2) with SMTP id hBG3j5s18551 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 19:45:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from (HELO j7lk3e) [94.235.76.196] by modemcable090.154-70-69.mc.videotron.ca with ESMTP id EB628B750A8; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 23:45:03 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Anita Abel" Reply-To: "Anita Abel" To: dnssec@ISI.EDU Date: Mon, 15 Dec 03 23:45:03 GMT X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.52f) Business MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="DAB0_.A3F03.3.4.431B" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Subject: [vet-DS] Declined Credit Application Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: --DAB0_.A3F03.3.4.431B Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
ELIMIN<= !cs wygyrt ybf vyofw>ATE YOUR CREDIT CARD DEBT WITHOUT BANKRUPTCY!

Tire= d of making minimum payments and barely getting by?

= This is NOT consolidation or negotiation...

This is COMPLET= E DEBT ELIMINATION

<= strong>STOP MAKING PAYMENTS I= MMEDIATELY!
A= re you drowning in debt?

Here's what we can= do for YOU...
    <= li>Terminate your credit card= debt!
  1. Allow you to stop making payments = immediately!
  2. Obtain a ZERO BALANCE statement from your credit= ors!
Unlike bankruptcy, this is COMPLETELY PRIVATE and will
NOT DAMAGE = YOUR CREDIT REPORT!











You will NOT = lose your home or any other assets!

<= div align=3D"center"> = Request your FREE CON= SULTATION now
=
Please = end future announcements



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To: dnssec@ISI.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 16:43:23 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-Priority: 1 Subject: [vet-DS] Attn: All Medical Employees, Staff, Friends and Family Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: #dnssec@isi.edu# Attention All Medical Employees, Staff, Friends and Family All - Desktop Computers - offered on a First Come, First Served Basis Only!! Limited Supply . . . . . AAA Discount Computers is offering a Limited Allotment of BRAND NEW, Top Of-The-Line, Desktop Computers at 50% Off, With Free Software!! To Medical Employees, Staff, Friends and Family Members. Home or Office Use. All Desktops are brand-new packed in their original boxes and come with a full 1 year Manufacturer's Warranty plus a 100% Satisfaction Guarantee. 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From p935mxkp@gawab.com Thu Jan 1 01:21:30 2004 Received: from ACB79F96.ipt.aol.com (ACB79F96.ipt.aol.com [172.183.159.150]) by gamma.isi.edu (8.11.6p2+0917/8.11.2) with SMTP id i019Kum02211 for ; Thu, 1 Jan 2004 01:21:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from (HELO i29qg) [165.149.16.48] by ACB79F96.ipt.aol.com with ESMTP id <042494-37417>; Thu, 01 Jan 2004 20:17:33 -0100 Message-ID: <7d7$m-$2--177brn@vghc.nquz.0.go> From: "Rodrigo Locke" Reply-To: "Rodrigo Locke" To: dnssec@ISI.EDU Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 20:17:33 GMT X-Mailer: Rocket one EVAL MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="CA.D9.C462FC51F.BAE4" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Subject: [vet-DS] Christmas Sale - discounted OEM software XP, office, Adobe, Corel all under 25-99$ per CD waterhouse Sender: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu Errors-To: dnssec-admin@mailman.isi.edu X-BeenThere: dnssec@mailman.isi.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Archive: --CA.D9.C462FC51F.BAE4 Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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