From Ramesh.Sarangarajan@usc.edu Sat Feb 1 03:53:12 2003 From: Ramesh.Sarangarajan@usc.edu (Ramesh Sarangarajan) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 19:53:12 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] "hard" & "soft" states - what do they actually mean? Message-ID: <000001c2c9a5$71e2c8f0$0201a8c0@Intrepid> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C2C962.63BF88F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As I tried to get a clear definition of "hard" & "soft" states (we had opposing views expressed in today's class about whether BGP maintains hard or soft state), I found this: http://users.exis.net/~jnc/tech/hard_soft.html But, it makes me more confused now. Can somebody give me pointers to "clear" definitions (if any)? -Ramesh ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C2C962.63BF88F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

As I tried to get a clear definition of “hard” & “soft” states (we had opposing views expressed in = today’s class about whether BGP maintains hard or soft state), I found = this:

 

http://users.exis= .net/~jnc/tech/hard_soft.html

 

But, it makes me more confused now. Can somebody give me = pointers to “clear” definitions (if any)?

 

-Ramesh

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C2C962.63BF88F0-- From sarangar@usc.edu Sat Feb 1 05:44:20 2003 From: sarangar@usc.edu (Ramesh Sarangarajan) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 21:44:20 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] "hard" & "soft" states: more pointers? Message-ID: <000001c2c9b4$f7db5d00$0201a8c0@Intrepid> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_j7DsKMRgeQi4ZwZI7mRi4w) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT As I tried to get a clear definition of "hard" & "soft" states (we had opposing views expressed in today's class about whether BGP maintains hard or soft state), I found this: http://users.exis.net/~jnc/tech/hard_soft.html Can someone provide me pointers to other possible definitions? -Ramesh --Boundary_(ID_j7DsKMRgeQi4ZwZI7mRi4w) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

As I tried to get a clear definition of “hard” & “soft” states (we had opposing views expressed in today’s class about whether BGP maintains hard or soft state), I found this:

 

http://users.exis.net/~jnc/tech/hard_soft.html

 

Can someone provide me pointers to other possible definitions?

 

-Ramesh

 

--Boundary_(ID_j7DsKMRgeQi4ZwZI7mRi4w)-- From jongapar@usc.edu Sun Feb 2 00:34:02 2003 From: jongapar@usc.edu (JongAm Park) Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 16:34:02 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] [Q] Is synchronized network traffic bad? In-Reply-To: <200302012005.h11K5CD24508@gamma.isi.edu> References: <200302012005.h11K5CD24508@gamma.isi.edu> Message-ID: <3E3C677A.1020304@usc.edu> I have a question about the synchronized network traffic. The Floyd's paper, The Synchronization of Periodic Routing Messages, makes me think that syncronized traffic is bad and should be avoided. Could someone explain why it's something to be avoided? The property of synchronization seems to me that it's quite natural. From pjayanty@usc.edu Sun Feb 2 12:11:58 2003 From: pjayanty@usc.edu (paavany jayanty) Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 04:11:58 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] [Q] Internet Path Inflation Due... Message-ID: Hi, In the Internet Path Inflation .... paper there is a mention of how overlay AS maps are obtained. I cannot quite get the difference between the "actual AS map" and the AS overlay map. How are the actual AS maps obtained? From jongapar@usc.edu Sun Feb 2 19:05:31 2003 From: jongapar@usc.edu (JongAm Park) Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 11:05:31 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] Synchronization Problem In-Reply-To: <200302012005.h11K5CD24508@gamma.isi.edu> References: <200302012005.h11K5CD24508@gamma.isi.edu> Message-ID: <3E3D6BFB.1000002@usc.edu> Well, I think the sync. is problem because negative properties, behaviours can be also synchronized. ( I understand that "synchronization" can be thought as "periodic" occurrence of some. ) However, if error rates, packet drops, for example, don't occur periodically but with same rate as before, couldn't it be more problematic? IMHO, I think it is more important to reduce such negative things. -- "Try not to become a man of success but rather to become a man of value." -- A. Einstein =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=++=+=+=+= JongAm Park http://my.dreamwiz.com/jongam jongam@myrealbox.com MSN : jongampark@hotmail.com Tel)213-251-9592 ICQ : 32697214 H.P)213-820-8943 AIM : JongAm From teli@usc.edu Sun Feb 2 22:38:30 2003 From: teli@usc.edu (parthik teli) Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 14:38:30 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] HW Q 3 Message-ID: hello TA, 1... I have some Q in HW Q 3.. u have given 2 sample inputs... so we need to use that for our program. but when u test our program.. what will u give as input.. the method of input will be the same (q3 < hw1input1 ) or any file like that.. -->>>or u will give input from keyboard ?? and the input files u have provided is in n/w byteorder ? am i right ? we must use ntohs()before decoding it ? please somebody clarify this thing. thank you. --Parthik ====================== Hard work is the way to "Zenith". Faith is the 'Base' of "Relation" From gnawali@usc.edu Mon Feb 3 05:44:57 2003 From: gnawali@usc.edu (Omprakash Gnawali) Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 21:44:57 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] Re: HW Q 3 In-Reply-To: Your message of Sun, 02 Feb 2003 14:38:30 -0800 Message-ID: <200302030544.h135ivcR006617@enl.usc.edu> The only assumption that you are allowed to make is input will be provided through stdin. It is unacceptable to look at the 3rd argument, explicitly open that file, and read from that file if that is what you were thinking. Your questions in the second paragraph are all answered in the homework handout. you wrote: > > hello TA, > 1... > I have some Q in HW Q 3.. u have given 2 sample inputs... so we need to use tha *t for our program. but when u test our program.. what will u give as input.. the me *thod of input will be the same (q3 < hw1input1 ) or any file like that.. > > -->>>or u will give input from keyboard ?? and the input files u have provided is i *n n/w byteorder ? am i right ? we must use ntohs()before decoding it ? > please somebody clarify this thing. > thank you. > --Parthik > ====================== > Hard work is the way to "Zenith". > Faith is the 'Base' of "Relation" From bindlish@usc.edu Mon Feb 3 07:12:37 2003 From: bindlish@usc.edu (aarti bindlish) Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 23:12:37 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] wanna make a study group!!! Message-ID: Hi! I wanna make a study group to discuss papers, HWs and other stuff . Anyone who is interested, Please let me know. We can plan meetings in Leevey at a convenient time. Thanx Aarti From sarangar@usc.edu Mon Feb 3 18:39:39 2003 From: sarangar@usc.edu (ramesh sarangarajan) Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 10:39:39 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] [Q] Is synchronized network traffic bad? Message-ID: The way I think of synchronization of router messages is that all routers send their route updates the same time - which causes serious congestions of the links as the route update messages are usually large. I guess that you were thinking about synchronization in inter-process communication context - which means an entirely differenct thing. Hope this helps. -Ramesh ----- Original Message ----- From: JongAm Park Date: Saturday, February 1, 2003 4:34 pm Subject: [Csci551-talk] [Q] Is synchronized network traffic bad? > I have a question about the synchronized network traffic. > > The Floyd's paper, The Synchronization of Periodic Routing Messages, > makes me think that syncronized traffic is bad and should be avoided. > Could someone explain why it's something to be avoided? > The property of synchronization seems to me that it's quite natural. > > > > > From sarangar@usc.edu Mon Feb 3 19:13:28 2003 From: sarangar@usc.edu (ramesh sarangarajan) Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 11:13:28 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] [Q] Internet Path Inflation Due... Message-ID:

Their earlier paper - http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/tangmunarunkit01impact.html  describes the methodology for generating AS overlay maps.

AS level topology was constructed mainly from the oregon route server bgp dumps.
Anybody can get them from telnet://route-views.oregon-ix.net/ - use "show ip bgp" command. The archives are available at http://archive.routeviews.org/

But, as BGP reveals only the AS preferences instead of actual physical AS connections, the info from "routeviews" is always incomplete. So, other sources like "Internet Routing Registries" like RADB, RIPE (the European registry) are used to fill in the gaps. ( For example http://www.radb.net/cgi-bin/radb/whois.cgi?obj=128.125.19.146 gives the IRR record for USC web server; http://www.radb.net/cgi-bin/radb/whois.cgi?obj=AS226 gives the record for the corresponding AS)

As providing routing policies in IRRs is optional, some ISPs don't do that. Internet "looking glass" sites like http://www.traceroute.org can help providing more details.

To answer your question, I think the difference is that  "actual" AS map was obtained directly from BGP dumps like the Oregon route server (which can be augmented by IRRs & looking glasses); http://topology.eecs.umich.edu/archive/asgraph.tar.gz is one such dataset; the "overlay" maps are drawn on the top of the router-level map (obtained by their mercator tool) using the same info from Oregon+RADB. They built the overlay map to get the actual inter-AS router links. The reason they compared the macroscopic properties of the actual & overlay maps is that they used approximation techniques (like collapsing the disjoint nodes of same AS to the nearest AS) in the overlay constructions.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

-Ramesh



----- Original Message -----
From: paavany jayanty <pjayanty@usc.edu>
Date: Sunday, February 2, 2003 4:11 am
Subject: [Csci551-talk] [Q] Internet Path Inflation Due...

> Hi,
>
> In the Internet Path Inflation .... paper there is a mention of
> how overlay AS maps are obtained.
>
> I cannot quite get the difference between the "actual AS map" and
> the AS overlay map.
>
> How are the actual AS maps obtained?
>
>
>
>

From rmgandhi@usc.edu Mon Feb 3 21:57:16 2003 From: rmgandhi@usc.edu (ravi gandhi) Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 13:57:16 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] Regd. Q.3. Message-ID: Hii, I wud like to know how can I test my program on an Intel Machine (little Endian). Thanks, Ravi M. Gandhi MS(C.S.), University of Southern California 710, West 27th Street, Apartment No.4, Los Angeles, CA 90007 Phone: 1-213-749-8983 webpage: http://www-scf.usc.edu/~rmgandhi/ From johnh@ISI.EDU Mon Feb 3 22:08:02 2003 From: johnh@ISI.EDU (John Heidemann) Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 14:08:02 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] "hard" & "soft" states: more pointers? In-Reply-To: <000001c2c9b4$f7db5d00$0201a8c0@Intrepid> Message-ID: <200302032208.h13M828v019270@dash.isi.edu> On Fri, 31 Jan 2003 21:44:20 PST, Ramesh Sarangarajan wrote: >As I tried to get a clear definition of ühardı & üsoftı states (we had >opposing views expressed in todayùs class about whether BGP maintains hard >or soft state), I found this: > >  > >http://users.exis.net/~jnc/tech/hard_soft.html > >  > >Can someone provide me pointers to other possible definitions? > >  > >-Ramesh > >  > > That web page starts to pull apart some of the implications behind hard and soft state. We'll talk more about this in class when we get to reliable multicast protocols. I mostly agree with Chiappa's web page, except for his statement that soft-state implies that the user is entirely repsponsible for its maintence. That is not true with many protocols that most people would agree are soft state, for example flood-and-prune multicast routing. -John Heidemann From johnh@ISI.EDU Mon Feb 3 22:32:57 2003 From: johnh@ISI.EDU (John Heidemann) Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 14:32:57 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] [Q] Is synchronized network traffic bad? In-Reply-To: <3E3C677A.1020304@usc.edu> Message-ID: <200302032232.h13MWvQL019454@dash.isi.edu> On Sat, 01 Feb 2003 16:34:02 PST, JongAm Park wrote: >I have a question about the synchronized network traffic. > >The Floyd's paper, The Synchronization of Periodic Routing Messages, >makes me think that syncronized traffic is bad and should be avoided. >Could someone explain why it's something to be avoided? >The property of synchronization seems to me that it's quite natural. > > This is a very good question. Often people state that something is bad without stating why. Common examples include synchronization and oscillation. As an example of a negative effect of synchronization, consider 5 sources sending at a rate of 1 pkt/s each to a shared queue with 4 buffers. The link drains at a rate of 5 pkts/s. If they all send at the same time, one packet must always be dropped. If the spread out their tranmissions over at least 0.2 s (=1/5 s) then no packets are ever lost. This doesn't answer why routing synchronization (the Floyd paper) would be bad. That's a good think to think about more. -John Heidemann From johnh@ISI.EDU Tue Feb 4 00:10:53 2003 From: johnh@ISI.EDU (John Heidemann) Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 16:10:53 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] [Q] Internet Path Inflation Due... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200302040010.h140Arxs020492@dash.isi.edu> On Sun, 02 Feb 2003 04:11:58 PST, paavany jayanty wrote: >Hi, > >In the Internet Path Inflation .... paper there is a mention of how overlay AS maps are obtained. > >I cannot quite get the difference between the "actual AS map" and the AS overlay map. > >How are the actual AS maps obtained? > I believe the paper refers to "overlay AS map" by comparision to "router-level map", not in relationship to "actual AS map" (which is not mentioned, to my knowledge). Thus the "overlay" part refers to overlaying ASes onto routers and links. (See also the references in [Tangmunarunkit01a] and ramesh sarangaraj's pointers for some reasons the overlay AS map is not necessarily exactly correct. -John Heidemann From sarangar@usc.edu Tue Feb 4 00:55:34 2003 From: sarangar@usc.edu (ramesh sarangarajan) Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 16:55:34 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] [Q] Internet Path Inflation Due... Message-ID:

> >I cannot quite get the difference between the "actual AS map" and
> the AS overlay map.
>
> I believe the paper refers to "overlay AS map" by comparision to
> "router-level map", not in relationship to "actual AS map" (which is
> not mentioned, to my knowledge).
>
> Thus the "overlay" part refers to overlaying ASes onto routers and
> links.

They actually compare their "overlay AS map" to "the actual AS map" obtained from BGP routing table dump at approximately the same period of time.

In fact, the figure 1 in http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/tangmunarunkit01internet.html paper state that both the maps have qualitatively similar macroscopic properties.

Unfortunately, the authors have failed to explain or provide references to what is "actual AS map"

-Ramesh

From akulkarn@usc.edu Tue Feb 4 21:16:20 2003 From: akulkarn@usc.edu (anupam kulkarni) Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 13:16:20 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] questions regarding Gao's paper Message-ID: <129446b12961d5.12961d5129446b@usc.edu> i have a couple of questions from Gao's paper. 1. i do not understand the significance of "Assumption P" could anyoneexplain it to me and could guildline B be just as effective without that assumption. 2. the authors say that the local pref of a route that has a backup link needs to be the lowest among all possible links. they further say that it is not necessary for the backup link to be the first hop. I cannot figure out how a BGP speaker can find out about a backup link if it in not the first hop. can anyone suggest me some example of backup links for an AS that are not next hops for some destination. From rmgandhi@usc.edu Wed Feb 5 22:47:42 2003 From: rmgandhi@usc.edu (ravi gandhi) Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 14:47:42 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] Reply to Anupam's questions (Gao's Paper) Message-ID: <17d026e17d54ff.17d54ff17d026e@usc.edu> 1.Assumption P is essential to keep the system stable. In the example that the author provides, if the assumption is not kept, then by Guideline B, (1,0) is preferred by AS3 and there would be a loop and the system would not reach a stable state. By assuming P, the AS3 no longer prefers peer path (1,0) and the loop is avoided. 2.AS far as the 2nd doubt goes, there is no question of an AS trying to find out the length of the backup link. This is because i think a backup link is established by prior agreement between two ASes. SO that knowledge is provided beforehand. Ravi M. Gandhi MS(C.S.), University of Southern California 710, West 27th Street, Apartment No.4, Los Angeles, CA 90007 Phone: 1-213-749-8983 webpage: http://www-scf.usc.edu/~rmgandhi/ From sarangar@usc.edu Thu Feb 6 00:12:52 2003 From: sarangar@usc.edu (ramesh sarangarajan) Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 16:12:52 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] questions regarding Gao's paper Message-ID: <184be541849494.1849494184be54@usc.edu> > 1. i do not understand the significance of "Assumption P" could > anyoneexplain it to me and > could guildline B be just as effective without that assumption. Figure 5 & the description that follows answers this Q. Guideline B relaxes the requirement that client routes should always have higher local-pref than peer/provider route so that peer routes can have local-pref as high that of client route but no more. Assumption P means that the "AS cluster" graph is "acyclic". ( Note: AS cluster is a group of ASes that peer with each other ) > 2. the authors say that the local pref of a route that has a > backup link needs to be the > lowest among all possible links. they further say that it is not > necessary for the backup > link to be the first hop. I cannot figure out how a BGP speaker > can find out about a backup > link if it in not the first hop. can anyone suggest me some > example of backup links for an > AS that are not next hops for some destination. > The authors say that the back-up link does not have to be the "first hop" [ in the AS path such as ( C, D, B, A ) ], but this doesn't mean that the back-up link is not "single-hop". Any link is a single-hop :) -Ramesh From sarangar@usc.edu Thu Feb 6 00:41:04 2003 From: sarangar@usc.edu (ramesh sarangarajan) Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 16:41:04 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] Gao-Rexford's BGP guidelines for multi-AS ISPs? Message-ID: <1876661186f90e.186f90e1876661@usc.edu> How do the BGP guidelines translate for ISPs with multiple ASes ( Ex: AT&T has 7018, 6341, 5074,....& possibly many others too ) ? Would these ASes be peers? If so, isn't the "guideline B" being restrictive ( because peer routes can't have higher local-pref than client routes ) without offering economic incentives? -Ramesh From johnh@ISI.EDU Thu Feb 6 04:39:38 2003 From: johnh@ISI.EDU (John Heidemann) Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 20:39:38 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] [Q] Internet Path Inflation Due... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200302060439.h164ddWT015422@dash.isi.edu> On Mon, 03 Feb 2003 16:55:34 PST, ramesh sarangarajan wrote: >> >I cannot quite get the difference between the "actual AS map" and >> the AS overlay map. >> >> I believe the paper refers to "overlay AS map" by comparision to >> "router-level map", not in relationship to "actual AS map" (which is >> not mentioned, to my knowledge). >> >> Thus the "overlay" part refers to overlaying ASes onto routers and >> links. > >They actually compare their "overlay AS map" to "the actual AS map" obtained I chatted with Ramesh Govindan, one of the co-authors of the paper, and he confirmed the distinction that I made quoted above about AS map vs. router-level mpa. -John Heidemann From johnh@ISI.EDU Thu Feb 6 04:46:58 2003 From: johnh@ISI.EDU (John Heidemann) Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 20:46:58 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] mailing list message formats Message-ID: <200302060446.h164kw8I015477@dash.isi.edu> I would like to encourage students to use plain text messages when they post to the class mailing list, or both plain text and html text. What format your mailers sends is usually an option. Unfortunately, it seems like some recent recent e-mail programs (I think some version of MS-Outlook) send mail as html-only. It's worth figuring out how to turn this "feature" off (or at least to html+plain text) since many people on the Internet prefer plain text (for example, it's often easier to reply to), and some people can't easily read html-only messages. (All this goes ten-fold for sending MS-Word documents as the only contents e-mail, but that's another story. :-) -John Heidemann From gnawali@usc.edu Thu Feb 6 07:27:10 2003 From: gnawali@usc.edu (Omprakash Gnawali) Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 23:27:10 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] HW1 Q3 Message-ID: <200302060727.h167RAlf022466@enl.usc.edu> Some of you are curious about how to test your code on a little-endian machine. For this all you need to do is compile your code in that platform (Intel etc) and run it. I have updated my FAQ page with this information. From sbhavsar@usc.edu Sun Feb 9 00:18:57 2003 From: sbhavsar@usc.edu (siddharth bhavsar) Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 16:18:57 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] HW1 Q3 Message-ID: <22951e22afe7.22afe722951e@usc.edu> apart from correctness are there any other criteria on which(eg code structure , efficiency etc) the question will be graded . Thanks Siddharth ----- Original Message ----- From: Omprakash Gnawali Date: Wednesday, February 5, 2003 11:27 pm Subject: [Csci551-talk] HW1 Q3 > > Some of you are curious about how to test your code on a little-endian > machine. For this all you need to do is compile your code in that > platform (Intel etc) and run it. > > I have updated my FAQ page with this information. > > From gnawali@usc.edu Sun Feb 9 01:26:29 2003 From: gnawali@usc.edu (Omprakash Gnawali) Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 17:26:29 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] HW1 Q3 In-Reply-To: Your message of Sat, 08 Feb 2003 16:18:57 -0800 Message-ID: <200302090126.h191QTDA026285@enl.usc.edu> 1. Grading of HW1 Q3 will be based on correctness and correctness only provided you are using the appropriate htons etc functions to do conversion. 2. Please do not send emails to csci551-talk@isi.edu and to gnawali@usc.edu at the same time. If you are sending an email to the list, just send it to csci551-talk@isi.edu otherwise I get two emails and I get confused. you wrote: > apart from correctness are there any other criteria on which(eg code structure , ef *ficiency etc) the > question will be graded . > Thanks > Siddharth > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Omprakash Gnawali > Date: Wednesday, February 5, 2003 11:27 pm > Subject: [Csci551-talk] HW1 Q3 > > > > > Some of you are curious about how to test your code on a little-endian > > machine. For this all you need to do is compile your code in that > > platform (Intel etc) and run it. > > > > I have updated my FAQ page with this information. > > > > > From sbhavsar@usc.edu Mon Feb 10 01:30:05 2003 From: sbhavsar@usc.edu (siddharth bhavsar) Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 17:30:05 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] HW1 Q3 Message-ID: <3cf61b3d2aad.3d2aad3cf61b@usc.edu> Here's a good animation of how a new startup is making money on BGP shortcomings . http://www.routescience.com/technology/tec_fla_dem.html Siddharth Bhavsar ----- Original Message ----- From: Omprakash Gnawali Date: Saturday, February 8, 2003 5:26 pm Subject: Re: [Csci551-talk] HW1 Q3 > > 1. Grading of HW1 Q3 will be based on correctness and correctness only > provided you are using the appropriate htons etc functions to do > conversion. > > 2. Please do not send emails to csci551-talk@isi.edu and to > gnawali@usc.edu at the same time. If you are sending an email to the > list, just send it to csci551-talk@isi.edu otherwise I get two emails > and I get confused. > > you wrote: > > apart from correctness are there any other criteria on which(eg > code structure , ef > *ficiency etc) the > > question will be graded . > > Thanks > > Siddharth > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Omprakash Gnawali > > Date: Wednesday, February 5, 2003 11:27 pm > > Subject: [Csci551-talk] HW1 Q3 > > > > > > > > Some of you are curious about how to test your code on a > little-endian > > > machine. For this all you need to do is compile your code in that > > > platform (Intel etc) and run it. > > > > > > I have updated my FAQ page with this information. > > > > > > > > > > From gnawali@usc.edu Tue Feb 11 03:55:30 2003 From: gnawali@usc.edu (Omprakash Gnawali) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 19:55:30 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] Re: assignment word limit 551 Message-ID: <200302110355.h1B3tU4U028216@enl.usc.edu> There is no word/sentence limit for the assignment unless stated explicitly. You should take as many words and setences as necessary to fully answer the questions. I am looking for content rather than quantity. If there is enough content, even bullet-point answers will get full credit. > i wish to inquire as to what is the word limit on 1,2 questions on the assignment o *r atleast what is the expected length. > From gnawali@usc.edu Tue Feb 11 03:57:28 2003 From: gnawali@usc.edu (Omprakash Gnawali) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 19:57:28 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] HW1 Q3 Message-ID: <200302110357.h1B3vSSW028240@enl.usc.edu> Your question is answered on the TA's FAQ page which you can access from the course site. Towards the bottom of the course home page, you will see a link called "TA web page". > Where is the FAQ page? I still am unsure abotu how to check the code on little endi *an. > Do we need to detect the kind of system? From johnh@ISI.EDU Wed Feb 12 05:09:30 2003 From: johnh@ISI.EDU (John Heidemann) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 21:09:30 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] questions regarding Gao's paper In-Reply-To: <184be541849494.1849494184be54@usc.edu> Message-ID: <200302120509.h1C59UtM025828@dash.isi.edu> On Wed, 05 Feb 2003 16:12:52 PST, ramesh sarangarajan wrote: >> 1. i do not understand the significance of "Assumption P" could >> anyoneexplain it to me and >> could guildline B be just as effective without that assumption. > >Figure 5 & the description that follows answers this Q. >Guideline B relaxes the requirement that client routes should always have >higher local-pref than peer/provider route so that peer routes can have >local-pref as high that of client route but no more. Assumption P means >that the "AS cluster" graph is "acyclic". >( Note: AS cluster is a group of ASes that peer with each other ) Yes, Assumption P is required to guarantee that there are no cycles. > >> 2. the authors say that the local pref of a route that has a >> backup link needs to be the >> lowest among all possible links. they further say that it is not >> necessary for the backup >> link to be the first hop. I cannot figure out how a BGP speaker >> can find out about a backup >> link if it in not the first hop. can anyone suggest me some >> example of backup links for an >> AS that are not next hops for some destination. Presumably the BGP speaker knows there is a backup link either through out-of-band means, or through a community set. This is one of the BGP attributes we didn't talk about. The distinction about single or multi-hop backup links is not important for class. -John Heidemann From johnh@ISI.EDU Wed Feb 12 05:13:32 2003 From: johnh@ISI.EDU (John Heidemann) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 21:13:32 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] Gao-Rexford's BGP guidelines for multi-AS ISPs? In-Reply-To: <1876661186f90e.186f90e1876661@usc.edu> Message-ID: <200302120513.h1C5DWUY025876@dash.isi.edu> On Wed, 05 Feb 2003 16:41:04 PST, ramesh sarangarajan wrote: >How do the BGP guidelines translate for ISPs with multiple ASes >( Ex: AT&T has 7018, 6341, 5074,....& possibly many others too ) ? > >Would these ASes be peers? If so, isn't the "guideline B" being restrictive >( because peer routes can't have higher local-pref than client routes ) >without offering economic incentives? They could treat other ASes that they happen to own however they like. Note that section 6.2 (complex AS relationships) indicates that you can apply rules per-prefix (not per-AS) and so they have considerable flexibility. -John Heidemann From johnh@ISI.EDU Wed Feb 12 05:22:38 2003 From: johnh@ISI.EDU (John Heidemann) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 21:22:38 -0800 Subject: routescience [was Re: [Csci551-talk] HW1 Q3 ] In-Reply-To: <3cf61b3d2aad.3d2aad3cf61b@usc.edu> Message-ID: <200302120522.h1C5McF5025944@dash.isi.edu> On Sun, 09 Feb 2003 17:30:05 PST, siddharth bhavsar wrote: >Here's a good animation of how a new startup is making money on BGP shortcomings . > >http://www.routescience.com/technology/tec_fla_dem.html > >Siddharth Bhavsar Interesting commercial. Something to ask yourself, though, is what if everyone was changing their routing every minute based on observed performance? -John Heidemann From johnh@ISI.EDU Wed Feb 12 05:29:57 2003 From: johnh@ISI.EDU (John Heidemann) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 21:29:57 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] Re: assignment word limit 551 In-Reply-To: <200302110355.h1B3tU4U028216@enl.usc.edu> Message-ID: <200302120529.h1C5TvGN025971@dash.isi.edu> On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 19:55:30 PST, Omprakash Gnawali wrote: > >There is no word/sentence limit for the assignment unless stated >explicitly. You should take as many words and setences as necessary to >fully answer the questions. I am looking for content rather than >quantity. If there is enough content, even bullet-point answers will >get full credit. > > >> i wish to inquire as to what is the word limit on 1,2 questions on the assignment o > *r atleast what is the expected length. >> As Om says, if you can answer briefly and correctly (but covering all the points raised in the question), even with bullets, you can get full credit. I would go further to suggest that if you're writing a whole lot, you should ask yourself if you're really answering the question well. If you find you have a book-long answer, you've probably missed the point of the question. (And if it's clear that you've missed the point of the question you can expect to be graded accordingly.) -John Heidemann From sarangar@usc.edu Wed Feb 12 13:30:05 2003 From: sarangar@usc.edu (Ramesh Sarangarajan) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 05:30:05 -0800 Subject: routescience [was Re: [Csci551-talk] HW1 Q3 ] In-Reply-To: <200302120522.h1C5McF5025944@dash.isi.edu> References: <3cf61b3d2aad.3d2aad3cf61b@usc.edu> <200302120522.h1C5McF5025944@dash.isi.edu> Message-ID: <20030212053005.0000610a.sarangar@usc.edu> On Tue, 11 Feb 2003 21:22:38 -0800 "John Heidemann" wrote: > On Sun, 09 Feb 2003 17:30:05 PST, siddharth bhavsar wrote: > >Here's a good animation of how a new startup is making money on BGP > >shortcomings . > > > >http://www.routescience.com/technology/tec_fla_dem.html > > > >Siddharth Bhavsar > > Interesting commercial. > > Something to ask yourself, though, is what if everyone was changing > their routing every minute based on observed performance? > > -John Heidemann > "Chaos" - not convergence. Application-level-overlays like "Akamai" would be a far better solution (but only for content delivery) than messing around with the network routes. -Ramesh From johnh@ISI.EDU Wed Feb 12 15:43:15 2003 From: johnh@ISI.EDU (John Heidemann) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 07:43:15 -0800 Subject: routescience [was Re: [Csci551-talk] HW1 Q3 ] In-Reply-To: <20030212053005.0000610a.sarangar@usc.edu> Message-ID: <200302121543.h1CFhF6d028687@dash.isi.edu> On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 05:30:05 PST, Ramesh Sarangarajan wrote: >On Tue, 11 Feb 2003 21:22:38 -0800 >"John Heidemann" wrote: > >> On Sun, 09 Feb 2003 17:30:05 PST, siddharth bhavsar wrote: >> >Here's a good animation of how a new startup is making money on BGP >> >shortcomings . >> > >> >http://www.routescience.com/technology/tec_fla_dem.html >> > >> >Siddharth Bhavsar >> >> Interesting commercial. >> >> Something to ask yourself, though, is what if everyone was changing >> their routing every minute based on observed performance? >> >> -John Heidemann >> > >"Chaos" - not convergence. > >Application-level-overlays like "Akamai" would be a far better solution (but only for content delivery) than messing around with the network routes. How does doing load-senstive routing at the app level make it more (or less) stable than at the network level? -John Heidemann From sarangar@usc.edu Wed Feb 12 16:31:38 2003 From: sarangar@usc.edu (Ramesh Sarangarajan) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 08:31:38 -0800 Subject: routescience [was Re: [Csci551-talk] HW1 Q3 ] In-Reply-To: <200302121543.h1CFhF6d028687@dash.isi.edu> References: <20030212053005.0000610a.sarangar@usc.edu> <200302121543.h1CFhF6d028687@dash.isi.edu> Message-ID: <20030212083138.00006784.sarangar@usc.edu> On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 07:43:15 -0800 "John Heidemann" wrote: > On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 05:30:05 PST, Ramesh Sarangarajan wrote: > >On Tue, 11 Feb 2003 21:22:38 -0800 > >"John Heidemann" wrote: > > > >> On Sun, 09 Feb 2003 17:30:05 PST, siddharth bhavsar wrote: > >> >Here's a good animation of how a new startup is making money on BGP > >> >shortcomings . > >> > > >> >http://www.routescience.com/technology/tec_fla_dem.html > >> > > >> >Siddharth Bhavsar > >> > >> Interesting commercial. > >> > >> Something to ask yourself, though, is what if everyone was changing > >> their routing every minute based on observed performance? > >> > >> -John Heidemann > >> > > > >"Chaos" - not convergence. > > > >Application-level-overlays like "Akamai" would be a far better solution (but only for content delivery) than messing around with the network routes. > > How does doing load-senstive routing at the app level > make it more (or less) stable than at the network level? > > -John Heidemann > As app level routing don't modify the routing tables, it can be deployed easily (without having to be agreed by everybody running the networks). Besides, if something goes wrong, we can always reconfigure our app level overlay or (if needed) revert to the original source of the content by bypassing the overlay. Proxy caches have been around for a long time & if the caches get polluted, we can always get content the from original source. But the major limitation of content overlays is that they just do only that & don't generalize to other apps. As the web & file-sharing are currently the most common apps, this limitation is not serious atleast now. -Ramesh From gnawali@usc.edu Wed Feb 12 17:20:42 2003 From: gnawali@usc.edu (Omprakash Gnawali) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:20:42 -0800 Subject: routescience [was Re: [Csci551-talk] HW1 Q3 ] In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 12 Feb 2003 08:31:38 -0800 Message-ID: <200302121720.h1CHKg2E015031@enl.usc.edu> Related work: reading number 71 for our class. "Resilient Overlay Networks" argues that it is possible to build a generic routing overlay (without co-operation from unwilling ISPs). The catch is, you better have some friends around the world living in different Internet clouds. Also, think about what happens if everyone starts using RON. > > > > > >Application-level-overlays like "Akamai" would be a far better solution (but onl *y for content delivery) than messing around with the network routes. > > > > How does doing load-senstive routing at the app level > > make it more (or less) stable than at the network level? > > > > -John Heidemann > > > > As app level routing don't modify the routing tables, it can be deployed easily (wi *thout having to be agreed by everybody running the networks). > > Besides, if something goes wrong, we can always reconfigure our app level overlay o *r (if needed) revert to the original source of the content by > bypassing the overlay. Proxy caches have been around for a long time & if the cache *s get polluted, we can always get content the from original source. > > But the major limitation of content overlays is that they just do only that & don't * generalize to other apps. As the web & file-sharing are currently > the most common apps, this limitation is not serious atleast now. > > -Ramesh From teli@usc.edu Wed Feb 12 20:32:27 2003 From: teli@usc.edu (parthik teli) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:32:27 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] Q for HW1 Message-ID: <88421887e1b6.87e1b6884218@usc.edu> i have some question for HW1. -- can i write the paper is "idea and analysis".. because it has introduce a idea and analyze it with different values.... -- can somethig about Q3... my prog can un ob aludra... when i run it on VC i need to change some header files. so i want to ask uu that... do we need to make our program on both plateform.. like.. first it will detect the system.. and if VC-- Aludra.. and accordingly it will include file. ?? my basic code can run on both machine... just i am confused about this.. right now. i change my header file manually... do i need to make it something like automated ? -Parthik Teli ====================== Hard work is the way to "Zenith". Faith is the 'Base' of "Relation" From mordani@usc.edu Wed Feb 12 22:12:58 2003 From: mordani@usc.edu (rohit mordani) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 14:12:58 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] HW1 Q3 question Message-ID: <9155d59126de.9126de9155d5@usc.edu> HI, HW1 Q3 gives us a hint to use memcpy. Do I have to use memcpy? My program works without using memcpy. If I dont use memcpy will I lose some points? Thanks Rohit From gnawali@usc.edu Thu Feb 13 07:39:11 2003 From: gnawali@usc.edu (Omprakash Gnawali) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:39:11 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] HW1 Q3 question In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 12 Feb 2003 14:12:58 -0800 Message-ID: <200302130739.h1D7dBgc005157@enl.usc.edu> Please use memcpy. If you don't use it you will not encounter some of the issues that we wanted you guys to think about. you wrote: > HI, > HW1 Q3 gives us a hint to use memcpy. Do I have to use memcpy? My program works without using memcpy. * If I dont use memcpy will I lose some points? > Thanks > Rohit > > From gnawali@usc.edu Thu Feb 13 07:44:47 2003 From: gnawali@usc.edu (Omprakash Gnawali) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:44:47 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] Q for HW1 In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:32:27 -0800 Message-ID: <200302130744.h1D7ilHr005219@enl.usc.edu> I think the question would be trivial if you guys were allowed to say it is "A and B and C and D" if A, B, C, and D are the only possibilities. This is an approach I suggest. Think about the types of the paper, and think about which category is the best match for the paper and say the paper is of this type because it has ... We are aware that there can be multiple answers for some papers and the classification is not necessarily a disjoint partition. As I mention in my FAQ page, you should make sure your program compiles on aludra. I will test your program in an Intel Linux platform and will make changes to the header myself if I need to. If your program does not compile on aludra, you lose lots of points. you wrote: > i have some question for HW1. > -- can i write the paper is "idea and analysis".. because it has introduce a idea and analyze it with * different values.... > -- can somethig about Q3... > my prog can un ob aludra... when i run it on VC i need to change some header files. so i want to as *k uu that... do we need to make our program on both plateform.. like.. first it will detect the system. *. and if VC-- Aludra.. and accordingly it will include file. ?? my basic code can run on both machine.. *. just i am confused about this.. right now. i change my header file manually... do i need to make it s *omething like automated ? > -Parthik Teli > ====================== > Hard work is the way to "Zenith". > Faith is the 'Base' of "Relation" > From shetye@usc.edu Thu Feb 13 20:21:31 2003 From: shetye@usc.edu (Siddharth Shetye) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:21:31 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] testing hw1 program on Linux quickly References: <200302122005.h1CK53D17893@gamma.isi.edu> Message-ID: <001201c2d39d$80c7a910$06107e18@darkstar> Hi, This isin't about doubts in any paper, but just a small tip on getting linux up and running really quick. I found this very useful to check my code for HW1 if it ran on Linux over Intel ... took 4 minutes to boot and 1 minute to confirm that it did. Thought maybe for this or future assignments people could use this without much headache. So try www.knoppix.com Its a Linux distribution based on Debian which runs completely off a single CD ! i.e. Boot thru the CD and you boot directly into KDE 3.0 with several apps installed and functional. Plus Points - No need to (re)partition your hard disk - No configuration files to mess with - Excellent hardware detection mechanism (my roommates USB based cable modem, a uncommon piece of hardware, was detected and installed! A shared Cable network was autodetected and was up and running without any intervention) - gcc pre-installed - OpenOffice pre-installed (equivalent of MS Office) - quick to work with Minuses - Can't make it a "permanent"/regular Linux OS on your hard disk (without much hacking, that is) - hence non-persistent - Limited App support (get just whats on the CD) I was quite impressed by this linux flavour ... hence this email ! Siddharth From sarangar@usc.edu Thu Feb 13 23:28:55 2003 From: sarangar@usc.edu (Ramesh Sarangarajan) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:28:55 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] Knoppix Linux [was: testing hw1 program on Linux quickly] In-Reply-To: <001201c2d39d$80c7a910$06107e18@darkstar> References: <200302122005.h1CK53D17893@gamma.isi.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030213151657.02c37e68@email.usc.edu> Yes, the hardware support of Knoppix (live cd linux) is truely amazing....& it brings up the KDE desktop without asking a single question...the commercial distros must be ashamed of themselves... My $0.02: If you have a wireless access point, set the network SSID to linux-wlan (the default for wlan-ng package in knoppix), enable DHCP & disable WEP. You can start browsing in Konqueror without any config in knoppix. (In fact I used knoppix for installing gentoo - the default kernel in gentoo didn't support my network cards & I use linksys wpc-11 card) But, as Siddarth has said, knoppix is no replacement for linux installed on the hard drive. It's at best a "Swiss army knife" linux. -Ramesh At 12:21 PM 2/13/2003 -0800, you wrote: >Hi, > >This isin't about doubts in any paper, but just a small tip on getting linux >up and running really quick. I found this very useful to check my code for >HW1 if it ran on Linux over Intel ... took 4 minutes to boot and 1 minute to >confirm that it did. Thought maybe for this or future assignments people >could use this without much headache. > >So try www.knoppix.com >Its a Linux distribution based on Debian which runs completely off a single >CD ! i.e. Boot thru the CD and you boot directly into KDE 3.0 with several >apps installed and functional. > >Plus Points >- No need to (re)partition your hard disk >- No configuration files to mess with >- Excellent hardware detection mechanism (my roommates USB based cable >modem, a uncommon piece of hardware, was detected and installed! A shared >Cable network was autodetected and was up and running without any >intervention) >- gcc pre-installed >- OpenOffice pre-installed (equivalent of MS Office) >- quick to work with > >Minuses >- Can't make it a "permanent"/regular Linux OS on your hard disk (without >much hacking, that is) >- hence non-persistent >- Limited App support (get just whats on the CD) > >I was quite impressed by this linux flavour ... hence this email ! > >Siddharth From johnh@ISI.EDU Thu Feb 13 23:33:13 2003 From: johnh@ISI.EDU (John Heidemann) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:33:13 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] Q for HW1 In-Reply-To: <200302130744.h1D7ilHr005219@enl.usc.edu> Message-ID: <200302132333.h1DNXE1J011311@dash.isi.edu> On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:44:47 PST, Omprakash Gnawali wrote: > >I think the question would be trivial if you guys were allowed to say >it is "A and B and C and D" if A, B, C, and D are the only >possibilities. This is an approach I suggest. Think about the types of >the paper, and think about which category is the best match for the >paper and say the paper is of this type because it has ... I would add, please make sure that you justify your choice in part c. Just saying "it is A" is not a complete answer. >We are aware that there can be multiple answers for some papers and >the classification is not necessarily a disjoint partition. > >As I mention in my FAQ page, you should make sure your program >compiles on aludra. I will test your program in an Intel Linux >platform and will make changes to the header myself if I need to. If >your program does not compile on aludra, you lose lots of points. People use #ifdef's to make code portable to multiple platforms. All C compliers define certain pre-processor symbols on different platforms to allow you to do things specific to that platform. You can use ifdefs to disable Windows-specific functionality on Solaris/Linux. -John Heidemann From johnh@ISI.EDU Thu Feb 13 23:36:00 2003 From: johnh@ISI.EDU (John Heidemann) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:36:00 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] HW1 Q3 question In-Reply-To: <200302130739.h1D7dBgc005157@enl.usc.edu> Message-ID: <200302132336.h1DNa0t8011346@dash.isi.edu> On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:39:11 PST, Omprakash Gnawali wrote: > >Please use memcpy. If you don't use it you will not encounter some of >the issues that we wanted you guys to think about. However, you are not *required* to use memcpy. If you don't use it, you will not lose points because of that. But you *are* required to use ntohs. You should expect to lose points for not using that function. (Even if your program otherwise works.) Om is right in that if memcpy and ntohs work well together, so you're encouraged to use memcpy. -John Heidemann > >you wrote: >> HI, >> HW1 Q3 gives us a hint to use memcpy. Do I have to use memcpy? My program works without using memcpy. > * If I dont use memcpy will I lose some points? >> Thanks >> Rohit >> >> From sarangar@usc.edu Fri Feb 14 20:26:15 2003 From: sarangar@usc.edu (Ramesh Sarangarajan) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:26:15 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] TCP SACK in Linux Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030214115931.00b15010@email.usc.edu> Linux kernel 2.4 has TCP SACK, which can be enabled as simple as writing "1" to /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_sack The other interesting performance tuning options are mentioned in http://www.psc.edu/networking/perf_tune.html#Linux -Ramesh From sarangar@usc.edu Fri Feb 14 21:18:37 2003 From: sarangar@usc.edu (Ramesh Sarangarajan) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 13:18:37 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] "pathchar" docs? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030214130941.00baba00@email.usc.edu> Is there any good documentation (not the usage notes) about how the "pathchar" tool works? I remember using that a couple of years ago (in my college in India - by then we had a very low (by today's standards) bandwidth link (64 Kbps) to the Internet which was always heavily congested & the tool still gave amazingly accurate estimation of the link bandwidths - at least I knew the bandwidth of the next few links of the ISP). If a tool estimated bandwidth when the link is not being utilized, it's perceivable; but how does "pathchar" estimate bandwidth even in a heavily congested link? Unfortunately, I could not find docs explaining how "pathchar" works. If someone knows about such docs, please tell me. -Ramesh From shshanks@usc.edu Sat Feb 15 21:57:19 2003 From: shshanks@usc.edu (shshank sharma) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 13:57:19 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] Re: "pathchar" docs? Message-ID: <2eaf322ee00f.2ee00f2eaf32@usc.edu> > 2. "pathchar" docs? (Ramesh Sarangarajan) > Is there any good documentation (not the usage notes) about how > the "pathchar" tool works? Pathchar basically estimates the throughput and latency based on repeated RTT measurements trying to reach the minimum possible RTT. You might find this acrobat file useful. http://delivery.acm.org/10.1145/310000/301582/p222-downey.pdf?key1=301582&key2=6225435401&coll=portal&dl=ACM&CFID=11111111&CFTOKEN=2222222 Even msri-talk.pdf available at ftp://ftp.ee.lbl.gov/pathchar/ talks about this. Let me know if the links dont work for you, I can send the files across. - Sharma. From sarangar@usc.edu Sun Feb 16 05:01:21 2003 From: sarangar@usc.edu (Ramesh Sarangarajan) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 21:01:21 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] bandwidth measurement by non-privileged users [Was: [Csci551-talk] Re: "pathchar" docs?] In-Reply-To: <2eaf322ee00f.2ee00f2eaf32@usc.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030215204732.00b15508@email.usc.edu> Thanks for the info. But, I'm uncomfortable with pathchar because it's available only as a binary. When I searched for similar tools, I found the following: - pipechar http://www-didc.lbl.gov/pipechar/ - nettimer http://mosquitonet.stanford.edu/~laik/projects/nettimer/ These tools seem to be actively maintained and available in source form. But, both of these require admin privileges to run. The pipechar docs say that there can't be multiple instances running at the same time (meaning they can't be accessed programmatically). Is there some tool (or library) , which can be accessed programmatically by non-privileged (l)users? BTW, even a rough estimate of the available end-to-end bandwidth would be enough for my needs. -Ramesh At 01:57 PM 2/15/2003 -0800, you wrote: > > 2. "pathchar" docs? (Ramesh Sarangarajan) > > Is there any good documentation (not the usage notes) about how > > the "pathchar" tool works? > >Pathchar basically estimates the throughput and latency based on repeated >RTT measurements trying to reach the minimum possible RTT. >You might find this acrobat file useful. > >http://delivery.acm.org/10.1145/310000/301582/p222-downey.pdf?key1=301582&key2=6225435401&coll=portal&dl=ACM&CFID=11111111&CFTOKEN=2222222 > > >Even msri-talk.pdf available at ftp://ftp.ee.lbl.gov/pathchar/ talks about >this. >Let me know if the links dont work for you, I can send the files across. > >- Sharma. From johnh@ISI.EDU Mon Feb 17 18:04:19 2003 From: johnh@ISI.EDU (John Heidemann) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:04:19 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] TCP SACK in Linux In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030214115931.00b15010@email.usc.edu> Message-ID: <200302171804.h1HI4JDJ021782@dash.isi.edu> On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:26:15 PST, Ramesh Sarangarajan wrote: >Linux kernel 2.4 has TCP SACK, which can be enabled as simple as writing >"1" to /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_sack Cool. Apparently I've been running SACK for a while without knowing it. :-) -John Heidemann From johnh@ISI.EDU Mon Feb 17 18:12:04 2003 From: johnh@ISI.EDU (John Heidemann) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:12:04 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] "pathchar" docs? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030214130941.00baba00@email.usc.edu> Message-ID: <200302171812.h1HIC4Vb021916@dash.isi.edu> On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 13:18:37 PST, Ramesh Sarangarajan wrote: >Is there any good documentation (not the usage notes) about how the >"pathchar" tool works? There are multiple good papers about pathchar. A good place to search is INSPEC, a commercial technical paper database that USC subscribes to. At USC, you can get to INSPEC from and then look under "Quicklinks". -John Heidemann From shshanks@usc.edu Tue Feb 18 05:05:11 2003 From: shshanks@usc.edu (Shshank) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:05:11 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] RE: bandwidth measurement by non-privileged users In-Reply-To: <200302162005.h1GK5DD15235@gamma.isi.edu> Message-ID: But, I'm uncomfortable with pathchar because it's available only as a binary. When I searched for similar tools, I found the following: - pipechar http://www-didc.lbl.gov/pipechar/ - nettimer http://mosquitonet.stanford.edu/~laik/projects/nettimer/ These tools seem to be actively maintained and available in source form. But, both of these require admin privileges to run. The pipechar docs say that there can't be multiple instances running at the same time (meaning they can't be accessed programmatically). > I'm not sure I got what you mean by 'accessing programmatically'. Do you mean access to the source code, or tool metrics being available to non-privileged users ? Please do explain that a bit more. Is there some tool (or library) , which can be accessed programmatically by non-privileged (l)users? BTW, even a rough estimate of the available end-to-end bandwidth would be enough for my needs. > If you havent already, you might want to check out iperf, for throughput measurements, lost packet counts, and more ! Source code and lots of binaries are available here: http://dast.nlanr.net/Projects/Iperf/ - Sharma From sarangar@usc.edu Tue Feb 18 18:33:32 2003 From: sarangar@usc.edu (Ramesh Sarangarajan) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:33:32 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] RE: bandwidth measurement by non-privileged users In-Reply-To: References: <200302162005.h1GK5DD15235@gamma.isi.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030218102324.00b15650@email.usc.edu> >>The pipechar docs say >>that there can't be multiple instances running at the same time (meaning >>they can't be accessed programmatically). > I'm not sure I got what you mean by 'accessing programmatically'. Do you > mean access to the source code, or tool metrics being available to > non-privileged users ? Please do explain that a bit more. The following is an excerpt from pipechar web site: A Key Issue in using pipechar is that you should NEVER run multiple pipechar on a host. Running multiple pipechar from a single host simultaneously will cause them hang each other. Pipechar is not designed to do such job and is not designed for programming and development. This is network layer (L3) v.s. transport layer (L4) issue. The multiplexing capability is at L4 only. Because all switch and routers are either link layer (L2) or network layer or both devices, and the control message is via ICMP in L3, there is no way to let multiple pipechar programs running on a host to share and De-multiplexing one income ICMP stream. An incoming in ICMP packet will be sent to all open RAW sockets. Question: traceroute is also a network layer tool, how it works if I run multiple traceroute simultaneously from a host? Answer: traceroute does not time the income ICMP, it only needs to know what types of income ICMP packets are. In this case, traceroute may spend time to toss those ICMP packets not belong to itself. PxCHAR is different, if we spend a lot of time to filter out irrelevant ICMP packets, timing is screwed up. That is it. Happy :-) HTH -Ramesh From sarangar@usc.edu Tue Feb 18 18:40:35 2003 From: sarangar@usc.edu (Ramesh Sarangarajan) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:40:35 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] bandwidth measurement by non-privileged users [Was: [Csci551-talk] Re: "pathchar" docs?] In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030215204732.00b15508@email.usc.edu> References: <2eaf322ee00f.2ee00f2eaf32@usc.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030218103534.00b25dd0@email.usc.edu> >Is there some tool (or library) , which can be accessed programmatically >by non-privileged (l)users? > >BTW, even a rough estimate of the available end-to-end bandwidth would be >enough for my needs. At last, I found a good (entirely app-level) tool for estimating E2E bottleneck bandwidth. It's explained in the following paper & talk: http://www.acm.org/sigcomm/sigcomm2002/papers/e2ebw.pdf http://detache.cmcl.cs.cmu.edu/broadcast_archive/sigcomm2002/ManishJain_250k.asx -Ramesh From teli@usc.edu Wed Feb 19 22:54:00 2003 From: teli@usc.edu (parthik teli) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 14:54:00 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] SACK Problem Message-ID: <659e766e14.66e14659e7@usc.edu> I cannot understand why in SACK, upon receiveng Partial ACK.. Pipe is decremented by 2... can somebody please explain it ? -Parthik ====================== Hard work is the way to "Zenith". Faith is the 'Base' of "Relation" From johnh@ISI.EDU Thu Feb 20 04:40:31 2003 From: johnh@ISI.EDU (John Heidemann) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 20:40:31 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] Project A Message-ID: <200302200440.h1K4eV1U015028@dash.isi.edu> Project A has been posted to the class web site. -John Heidemann From gnawali@usc.edu Fri Feb 21 07:00:10 2003 From: gnawali@usc.edu (Omprakash Gnawali) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 23:00:10 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] hw1 grade Message-ID: <200302210700.h1L70AfO013248@enl.usc.edu> I just sent out grades for hw1. Let me know if you didn't receive it. - om_p From gnawali@usc.edu Fri Feb 21 17:31:10 2003 From: gnawali@usc.edu (Omprakash Gnawali) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 09:31:10 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] hw1 q3 test cases Message-ID: <200302211731.h1LHVAkR018883@enl.usc.edu> The four test cases used for grading HW1Q3 are now on my website. From gnawali@usc.edu Sun Feb 23 05:05:40 2003 From: gnawali@usc.edu (Omprakash Gnawali) Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 21:05:40 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] Timer API Message-ID: <200302230505.h1N55eRF005415@enl.usc.edu> Makefile in Timer API fixed. The fix is related to getting C application to compile in Linux platform. Consequently, if you want to use this code in C, you will have to link your program the way the Makefile does. For C++, there were no changes. From sarangar@usc.edu Fri Feb 28 21:06:52 2003 From: sarangar@usc.edu (Ramesh Sarangarajan) Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 13:06:52 -0800 Subject: [Csci551-talk] a controversial paper: TCP circuits Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030228124554.00baaff0@email.usc.edu> I'm sure this paper - http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/molinero-fernandez02tcp.html - would have ignited a lot of controversy. This makes a case for integrating circuit switching with packet switching. I think they make a pretty good case for switching circuits for every TCP flow: 1. Bandwidth is no longer the "precious" entity - it is the buffers in routers. 2. Moore's law for processors is moving much slower than the rate of doubling of bandwidth (every 7 months as opposed to every 18 months for processors). 3. Already we are over-provisioning bandwidth & the original argument for packet switching (achieving max utilization by statistical multiplexing) is less relevant currently. 4. Already the Core of the Internet (as well as the last-mile) is carried on circuits (SONET, etc) 4. The robustness (routing around failures) in Internet is lesser (seconds to minutes) currently because of complex routing protocols which take a long time to converge - whereas SONET recovers in less than 50 ms. 5. They argue that the state & signalling for TCP switching is manageable with current hardware tech. Very interesting indeed - if their proposal becomes successful, all the previous efforts in QoS provisioning in packet-switched Internet would become less relevant. But, as I'm not really an expert, I suspect there could be something wrong in their idea. Any ideas on why this radically different way of doing thing won't actually work? -Ramesh PS: A slightly different version of the same paper was presented in Hot-Interconnects 2001 conference: http://tiny-tera.stanford.edu/~nickm/papers/TCPSwitch-HotI_final_paper.pdf